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Transparent stairs: what happens when no-one on the design team wears skirts
- blfr 4y agoNah. This is the glass and steal aesthetic that routinely creates buildings hard to navigate by people who are impaired (even just buzzed), older, or in any way out of shape. Not because no one on the team likes to have a drink but because form took precedence over function. Same with super thin phones and half a day of battery life. We like pretty things even if they're not as functional. I actually quite agree with these choices. The ultimate function over form aesthetic is an athleisure-clad American on a mobility scooter. Not good either.
- petsormeat 4y agoI'm wholly capable of climbing stairs, but this idiotic design fad is why I wait for the elevator at the Apple Store.
- throwaway892238 4y ago
- sigmoid10 4y agoWell, there certainly are cultures that consider the face to be so private that you have to mask it (at least for women). And this shit has been going on for way longer than 200 years.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- oblak 4y agoOh man. Someone very close to me was somehow persuaded to join such a culture. I was recently told good women stay at home and don't show up outside without escort. And they do it by choice. Infuriating, totally unexpected stuff coming from a white person who grew up in Europe. Religious fucks brainwashing people.
- orangepurple 4y agoYou can't generalize Europe like that. There are hundreds of linguistic and ethnic groups in Europe. You can have an EU country like Croatia border Bosnia where news like this comes out: https://balkaninsight.com/2016/11/18/new-islamic-state-magazine-published-in-bosnian-11-17-2016/ https://balkaninsight.com/2016/11/18/new-islamic-state-magaz...
- imtringued 4y agoI too would avoid the threat of having my skull bashed in by choice.
- igorj 4y agoIt's not about being ashamed of body parts, it's about feeling safe in a shared environment. It's the same reason we don't put peepholes on changing room walls. For women in particular, it's about not having creepy men crossing your boundaries and ogling you with sexual intent. The guys who would sneak a peek up a woman's skirt are the sort of men who would rape if they thought they could get away with it.
- throwaway892238 4y agoAt the beach nobody bats an eye about being nearly naked. But in the library, we're scared someone might look at the same exact part that's on display at the beach. A place where it used to be taboo to expose skin, btw. I believe that this fear of men ogling women in public is a direct byproduct of us being afraid that men will ogle women in public, and thus women's behavior and fears are a result of aforementioned fear, which in turn encourages men to act that way because it's expected. The whole thing is a self-perpetuating taboo. It's completely made up.
- gadflyinyoureye 4y agoAre the stairs that transparent? Between the steel support and the blue of the glass, can one really see anything of interest? Specifically is it the material of the stair step that’s the problem or the open stairwell? If the steps were made of marble would there be as much concern? For example if there are no opaque risers in the stair one could see well through the gaps. The same is true of there are no opaque sides to the stairs under the railing.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoI would imagine the woman walking on the stairs will be uncomfortable regardless of the image quality.
- rblatz 4y agoThis tweet pointed out that a woman designer popularized the glass stair. https://twitter.com/kaeae/status/1535445162872033280?s=21&t=doI0ae9QmKEhKmR5QD1pKw https://twitter.com/kaeae/status/1535445162872033280?s=21&t=...
- user764743 4y agoI don't think you can see through these stairs, seems however like it is possible to build glass stairs without them being fully transparent.
- gruez 4y agoI wouldn't say "you can't see through these stairs". It looks like the glass itself is transparent (ie. it's not frosted or anything), but there's some sort of reinforcing mesh that partially obscures it.
- samstave 4y agoYou know what would be REALLY cool - using the electronically frosting glass which turns opaque, and have it activated anytime anyone steps on the stairs. We installed these in a hospital's ER department for all the ER and ICU bays. So it was clear - but if there was a Code being called (i.e. someone crashing/going into arrest) they can flip all the glass opaque. This worked REALLY well in a hospital in LA which had very small ER bays - and getting an entire crash team with intubation etc packed the tiny space with like 10 people. Having a curtain in there consumes people space... One way is to have 2 or 3 stair treads ahead and behind of the foot placement (weight) turn opaque. Another thing would also be good for LEDs to light up the frosted treads as they are walked on with a soft glow, but very strong edge defenition (such as a colored-glowing edge of a contrasting light. Have the stairs light in a running sequence when an emergency/fire alarm is sounded. (but not so fast as to cause vertigo on fleeing tenants. --- With that said, I dislike glass stairwells in general. Take SalesForce's 50 Fremont building in San francisco. Up between like levels 39/40 - there used to be a lawfirm in that space prior to Salesforce buying the build which contained a completely 80's-Cocaine-Infused interior design with a spiral stair going between the floors. They replaced the gaudy railings of the large spiral stair with curved glass panels. They weigh like 500 pounds each, are extremely expensive (due to the helix nature of the curve) -- but they proved to be really difficult to install without breaking. I know we went through at least two of the very top panels breaking, but it may have been as many as three breaking during install) The point is, I know how fragile they were during install - so I do not trust their seismic ratings. I would say though that the glass stairs in the flagship SF Apple store are made with like ~7-poly-layered glass with the same tech used un windscreens... but these treads and rails in apple are thicker than anthing I had seen prior... But still - the last place I want to be standing upon during any seismic event is made of glass. --- Seismic torsion/twisting on the panels will still statter/crack them -- but into smal little square diamonds that can still fuck you up quite easily if youre body is also being violently thrown against them whilst walking up/down in a skirt during an earthquake.
- troymc 4y agoSkirts aren't the only reason to avoid transparent stairs. I always wear trousers, and I also get freaked out when I have to climb transparent stairs or even stairs with holes in them. Why? I can see through them and below, and it makes me worry that the stairs could break and I could plummet to my death at any moment. I cope by not looking down and holding onto the handrail.
- masswerk 4y agoFear of heights is a thing. Architecture should be still bound to human needs (at least, too a lesser extent. /s)
- monkeybutton 4y agoAs a little kid I used to be terrified of stairs made of metal grating like the ones used for fire escapes. Something about being able to see what felt like 100s of feet below through the thing that's supposed to hold you up just did not compute in my little brain.
- orbital-decay 4y agoYeah, floating staircases and balconies with grates caused nightmares for me when I was a kid. When you're small and everything is big, the gaps induce severe fear of height; at 6, you see nothing where adults see guardrails. What's worse, some Soviet architectural genius built floating stairs in my school. I got used to it over time, but in the first year I felt a bit lightheaded every time I had to use them.
- thrwaway9871 4y ago
- nvrspyx 4y agoYou do realize that a lot of women have to deal with creepy behavior daily, right?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
- ncallaway 4y agoOkay, but you can see how “this happens daily” is a pretty effective rebuttal to the “this would never happen” argument. And, yes, I would say that women having to daily deal with creepy behavior does pain me, and I think it should bother any person. And I’m deeply suspicious of any person that thinks it’s not a problem worth thinking about and working to improve.
- Jcowell 4y agoThis is off topic-ish but it amazes me that there has yet to be a true militant women’s movement (maybe there is but just haven’t looked into it yet). Something along the lines of The Black Panthers but for women. I would be absolutely fed up with the Shit they have to deal with on a daily basis.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoMight have something to do with being physically weaker than 50% of the population.
- Jcowell 4y agoIf we were working with swords and fist sure. But guns should be enough to leveling out the playing field.
- politician 4y agoReal change will happen when kilts become trendy.
- Ancapistani 4y agoI’m so ready for this. I have a “modern” kilt that I wear sometimes to special occasions with my daughters. It’s amazing to me how the same garment can be both warm in the winter and cool in the summer. I don’t much care what people think about it, but people constantly coming up to talk about it is what makes it impractical for daily wear.
- throwaway_98554 4y ago
- Jcowell 4y agoWho said anything about women ? Women aren’t the only ones who can wear skirts ya know :). But yes accessibility should also be apart of the discussion
- mgdlbp 4y agoNot commenting on the validity of GP's comment, but I don't think you can invalidate it with that argument; the topic evidently permeates the discussion. > that a woman designer popularized the glass stair > I know lots of girls > when kilts become trendy > particularly women being preyed on > that a lot of women have to deal with creepy behavior > that all genders will wear clothes > For women in particular
- Jcowell 4y agoI agree that it permeates the discussion , but I think it’s dishonest that it’s the only discussion it permeates (like the kilts you mention there). The Twitter poster made a very obvious point of not mentioning just women but anyone who can wear a skirt. One that comes to mind is girls who wear skirts. Disabilities are something I agree should be mentioned, but the GP beef should be with just mentioning clothing, not a subsection of a sex who wears it.
- SilasX 4y agoAny place open to the public with stairs will still have to meet disability accommodation law and have an alternate, accessible means to reach the higher floor, like an elevator. While I dislike the design, it’s generally not going to be at the cost of those with physical disabilities.
- throwaway_98554 4y agoDisabilities are not binary; it's not perfect health VS quadriplegic. For some people, it's just harder to do everyday things. It doesn't mean they can't move around. And for people getting older or with a degenerative disease, continuing to do things normally is also a matter of pride. To put it in obvious terms, it's like saying that we can add 3-4 stairs at the main entrance, because anybody who don't like stair can enter via the damp alleyway in the back, besides the dumpsters.
- SilasX 4y agoSimilar issue with reflective floors. See this /r/CrappyDesign thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/CrappyDesign/comments/l7h9sb/ballroom_where_everyone_downstairs_can_see_up/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CrappyDesign/comments/l7h9sb/ballro... Edit: sorry, I misremembered the link. Still, another example of the same problem, not involving stairs, with a lot of comments, so I’ll leave it for that reason.
- spinaltap 4y agoI once saw a similar thing, but not stairs - it was a hall with the whole floor made with mirror, and I went in a summer.
- jeegsy 4y agoDue to the same transparency, I suspect it would be fairly obvious if someone is trying to take advantage of this.
- phreack 4y agoNot necessarily, there's some examples in that thread where the stairs are in such plain view that you'd feel exposed to the whole room. But even then, you'd need to confront people playing dumb hanging out below such stairs, which is not easy for most people, particularly women being preyed on like that.
- renewiltord 4y ago
- heretogetout 4y agoWhat is the norm here? Glass stairs are unusual.
- renewiltord 4y agoExactly. They're a small deviation from the norm.
- heretogetout 4y agoThe norm being making designs that allow people to more easily perv on women? I'm hoping that's not your point but I am not very imaginative today.
- renewiltord 4y agoThe norm is opaque stairs. The deviation is frosted glass stairs. Hope that clears things up. Most people are quite resilient to deviations from the norm. In real life, for instance, where I know lots of people - folks usually have very little trouble on encountering novel situations that are minor differences from the norm. And if it helps you comprehend, I can directly answer you as well: No, the norm is not "making designs that allow people to more easily perv on women". There, hope that helps.
- stale2002 4y agoGot it, so then you agree that clear glass stairs, which allow people to more easily perv on people would be a significant deviation from the norm, and is weird, and bad.
- delusional 4y agoHave to tried asking the many girls you know? I wouldn't think this comes up a lot in day to day conversation, but I'd be interested in hearing what these many girls have to say.
- londons_explore 4y ago
- bbnbbt 4y ago
- londons_explore 4y ago
- pragmatic 4y agoArchitects don't design for users they design for other architects. Similar to software,resume driven development. The worst are the UI design systems that are user hostile but oh so impressive to other designers and to pad out that portfolio.
- lazide 4y agoIMO, it’s kind of like the ‘longest most ornate nails’ competition that happens with some folks. The whole point is it’s obnoxious and actively interferes with getting things done - it’s a flex showing that they are so highly valued and supported with such luxury that they can get away with it. Like peacock feathers, but professional.
- Mountain_Skies 4y agoEncountered a similar problem back in the 90s when my employer converted an alleyway between two of our buildings into a social space. To make full use of the space, a loft was built but the stairs and the loft were both build with a metal mesh, making the view from below often embarrassing for those above. I don't know who was the architect but I know the design, including stair prototype, was signed off by our president and the head of my department, both of whom were women. In our case, an opaque layer in a contrasting color was added below, which made for a visually interesting design that proved difficult to keep clean.
- trynumber9 4y agoWe can't have cool, fairy-tale like stairs because some creeps will misuse it.
- iramiller 4y agoIt’s a similar problem with metal grating typically used on outdoor staircases. There are practical benefits in places where it snows for these designs. Sometimes clothing is simply impractical for certain environments. It still find the idea of glass stairs to be a poor choice with no practical benefits.
- fareesh 4y agoI've been to at least 2-3 restaurants with winding staircases and tables reasonably close to the stairs. It's not just transparency that's an issue
- js2 4y agoI think these are the stairs: https://www.kenyon.edu/files/tour/wide-xlrg-wide-xlrg-atrium-2.jpg https://www.kenyon.edu/files/tour/wide-xlrg-wide-xlrg-atrium... via https://www.kenyon.edu/kenyon-on-a-tour/chalmers-library/ https://www.kenyon.edu/kenyon-on-a-tour/chalmers-library/
- jtwaleson 4y agoAlthough not really my job, I often helped people with their computers at the office. I learned the hard way to not just dive under a desk to fix the cables if women were working there. After startling one co-worker with a skirt, I learned to announce I was “going under” before doing so. I was young and nerdy and without any bad intentions, so they laughed about it after a couple of seconds, but I recall the embarrassment to this day. Maybe this helps anyone ;)