4 ms·

I think the more interesting question than how to reinvent some technological gizmos is how to reinstate governance. It's handy to know how to build a solar pan

I think the more interesting question than how to reinvent some technological gizmos is how to reinstate governance. It's handy to know how to build a solar panel but it isn't worth much if someone hits me on the head with a club five minutes later. It's kind of funny to me that so much post apocalyptic writing is so overly concerned with technology when technology without much wisdom was what likely caused the apocalypse in the first place.

99_00 4y ago
Technology on its own can't cause the apocalypse. It needs mismanagement or misuse by humans. Looking at the world today you see societies crumble while others thrive. This, despite having access to the same or similar technology. The difference being in how they organize themselves and their vision of themselves.
joe_the_user 4y ago
how to reinstate governance And that's hardly something there's an easy how-to answer to. A primitive tribe or band tends have each member strongly connected each other member since with few resources, the people are the resources. Modern people don't have to care in the slightest about their neighbors and this is weakness in an emergency situation. Moreover, a "collapse" situation, in many instances, would imply a general social failure even more complete than recent problems we've seen (consider "I'd rather X many people die than the economy suffer [from Covid or limiting carbon pollution or etc"] a statement about non-community). I don't know how mainstream society would even come back from that. Perhaps the Amish would do well.
- NateEag 4y ago
  > Perhaps the Amish would do well. I live in central Pennsylvania, in Lancaster County - there's an Amish farm walking distance from where I sit. I think about societal collapse a lot, and was just recently ruminating on how the Amish would do in that scenario. They're clearly more prepared for it than most of us, but they're a bit more dependent on the outside world (or "the English", as they refer to us) than you might expect. It's pretty common to see buggies parked at farm and tractor supply shops around here, and you'll even see them in the local ERs. When they sell stuff at farmer's markets I've seen a lot of plastic wrap, plastic containers, plastic bags, and aluminum foil. Some even have cars, depending on the sect. All that said, they do live much simpler, lower-tech lives, with plenty of ingenious manually-powered tools (I once saw a mule-powered lawn mower in action while driving past a farm). I expect they'd have some bumps adjusting, but that they'd mostly be able to, unlike the rest of us.
  - jpindar 4y ago
    You might like the novel "When the English Fall".
    - NateEag 4y ago
      Looks interesting. Thanks for the recommendation!
avgcorrection 4y ago
Right. We need to reinstate governance ASAP so that they can continue protecting the assets of the rich.
csomar 4y ago
> It's handy to know how to build a solar panel but it isn't worth much if someone hits me on the head with a club five minutes later. Most people will quickly assemble in groups/tribes/families. People can realize danger, and even independents will know when it's time. Chaos will be transitory and most people will be unaffected; however, supply lines will be limited to neighboring friendly tribes/villages. As a result, shipping things from the other side of the world will be expensive and slow. Products will make their way slowly, so you'll always get the end product but inefficiently.
- to1y 4y ago
  Its likely there will be mass violence in the beginning and pretty much everyone will be affected imo. Criminal types will flourish taking what they will. Most will die from starvation pretty soon though. Those who have some sort of food source will become huge targets very quickly. Your only real hope is to have some tucked away huge bit of land with water and food already growing. Even then that wont be enough.
  - csomar 4y ago
    > Its likely there will be mass violence in the beginning and pretty much everyone will be affected imo. No. Cities will be affected disproportionately but that's it. The crime rate is too low. Even if it x10, it'll be roughly the same as Brazil or El Salvador (which still has people and communities living there!). > Criminal types will flourish taking what they will. Corporations and large enterprises will likely be targeted more. > Most will die from starvation pretty soon though. No. > Those who have some sort of food source will become huge targets very quickly. People will trade with farmers; like they did before? Just food will become more expensive. There is massive food waste (especially in the US), and even places like Africa will be fine. A post-Apocalyptic world is more about the collapse about the current order (current government, corporations, current powers) than the death of the people. Unless a nuclear winter sets, most people will be fine.

99_00 4y ago

Technology on its own can't cause the apocalypse. It needs mismanagement or misuse by humans. Looking at the world today you see societies crumble while others thrive. This, despite having access to the same or similar technology. The difference being in how they organize themselves and their vision of themselves.

joe_the_user 4y ago

how to reinstate governance And that's hardly something there's an easy how-to answer to. A primitive tribe or band tends have each member strongly connected each other member since with few resources, the people are the resources. Modern people don't have to care in the slightest about their neighbors and this is weakness in an emergency situation. Moreover, a "collapse" situation, in many instances, would imply a general social failure even more complete than recent problems we've seen (consider "I'd rather X many people die than the economy suffer [from Covid or limiting carbon pollution or etc"] a statement about non-community). I don't know how mainstream society would even come back from that. Perhaps the Amish would do well.

NateEag 4y ago
> Perhaps the Amish would do well. I live in central Pennsylvania, in Lancaster County - there's an Amish farm walking distance from where I sit. I think about societal collapse a lot, and was just recently ruminating on how the Amish would do in that scenario. They're clearly more prepared for it than most of us, but they're a bit more dependent on the outside world (or "the English", as they refer to us) than you might expect. It's pretty common to see buggies parked at farm and tractor supply shops around here, and you'll even see them in the local ERs. When they sell stuff at farmer's markets I've seen a lot of plastic wrap, plastic containers, plastic bags, and aluminum foil. Some even have cars, depending on the sect. All that said, they do live much simpler, lower-tech lives, with plenty of ingenious manually-powered tools (I once saw a mule-powered lawn mower in action while driving past a farm). I expect they'd have some bumps adjusting, but that they'd mostly be able to, unlike the rest of us.
- jpindar 4y ago
  You might like the novel "When the English Fall".
  - NateEag 4y ago
    Looks interesting. Thanks for the recommendation!

avgcorrection 4y ago

Right. We need to reinstate governance ASAP so that they can continue protecting the assets of the rich.

csomar 4y ago

> It's handy to know how to build a solar panel but it isn't worth much if someone hits me on the head with a club five minutes later. Most people will quickly assemble in groups/tribes/families. People can realize danger, and even independents will know when it's time. Chaos will be transitory and most people will be unaffected; however, supply lines will be limited to neighboring friendly tribes/villages. As a result, shipping things from the other side of the world will be expensive and slow. Products will make their way slowly, so you'll always get the end product but inefficiently.

to1y 4y ago
Its likely there will be mass violence in the beginning and pretty much everyone will be affected imo. Criminal types will flourish taking what they will. Most will die from starvation pretty soon though. Those who have some sort of food source will become huge targets very quickly. Your only real hope is to have some tucked away huge bit of land with water and food already growing. Even then that wont be enough.
- csomar 4y ago
  > Its likely there will be mass violence in the beginning and pretty much everyone will be affected imo. No. Cities will be affected disproportionately but that's it. The crime rate is too low. Even if it x10, it'll be roughly the same as Brazil or El Salvador (which still has people and communities living there!). > Criminal types will flourish taking what they will. Corporations and large enterprises will likely be targeted more. > Most will die from starvation pretty soon though. No. > Those who have some sort of food source will become huge targets very quickly. People will trade with farmers; like they did before? Just food will become more expensive. There is massive food waste (especially in the US), and even places like Africa will be fine. A post-Apocalyptic world is more about the collapse about the current order (current government, corporations, current powers) than the death of the people. Unless a nuclear winter sets, most people will be fine.