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I don't see why this is true. Just because a thing is difficult to precisely define, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does it mean you can't get closer to it.
by alasdair_ 4y ago
I don't see why this is true. Just because a thing is difficult to precisely define, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does it mean you can't get closer to it.
I could say that I'm "taking strides towards becoming a better person" and that could still have meaning, despite the lack of any objective measure and, even, with the understanding that "a better person" could change over time.
- edgyquant 4y agoI don’t see how consciousness is at all hard to define. A system that is aware of itself. Checking for consciousness is harder, but the rule of thumb should be anything that makes a highly subjective case it’s conscious probably is.
- throwk8s 4y agoI would think that... 1) awareness, even without a sense of self, would still count as consciousness, and 2) describing consciousness in terms of awareness doesn't help to define it, since awareness is a subjective experience that cannot be shared directly
- alasdair_ 4y ago>I don’t see how consciousness is at all hard to define. A system that is aware of itself. A thermostat that is aware of the temperature inside its own housing is "aware of itself". It's not conscious however. Nailing down exactly what consciousness means is remarkably difficult.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y agoHonestly I think this is largely because humans want the conclusion that only they are consious, or at least that only they and some animals are, and are trying really hard to carve out a definition that makes that work. Why would we do that? Well obviously because we create AI to do work for us and we don't want to have any ethical considerations get in the way of treating our new slaves however we want.
- edgyquant 4y agoYup this is my thinking also. It isn’t a hard concept imo people just like theologizing about why they’re special
- goatlover 4y agoIn philosophy of mind, self-consciousness is separate from qualia, although some might argue that to be self-conscious, a being must have qualia. Qualia meaning what it's like to be in some mental state. Seeing a color has a color quale, which means there is an experience of color. Or better yet, we experience a colored-in world when we see (or dream, remember, visualize). Does any current AI have some mental experience? For us, there's something it's like to be self-conscious, just like there's some experience that goes with our thoughts, such as inner dialog (hearing your thoughts). For some, that might be mental imagery instead of internal sound. At any rate, it's the various feels that make up our experience of being a self in the world, or a self reflecting on itself.
- Invictus0 4y agoI would argue that "taking strides towards becoming a better person" is a totally meaningless statement. If I were to ask you "how so" then you would probably respond by listing definitive actions that demonstrate attributes of goodness, like generosity or kindness.
- whiplash451 4y agoI disagree. You could also characterize it as, for instance, having better knowledge of yourself (which, interestingly, seems to be a characteristic of consciousness as well).
- Invictus0 4y agoHaving better knowledge of yourself is a definitive action, no? I would call it self-awareness.
- atx42 4y agoReplace "consciousness" with "gobbledygook". Does it exist? Can you get closer to it? Can't apply science to it. I think you are saying we have a rough idea what it means, but then it's a sliding scale as far as ability to get closer to it.