4 ms·

> the cost of storing fuel rods onsite for decades This environmental remediation cost is generally missing in comparisons with all other energy sources.

by dqpb 4y ago

iancmceachern 4y ago
And mining too
anamexis 4y ago
It’s generally missing from the other energy sources as well.
- joe_the_user 4y ago
  What remediation costs do solar or wind have?
  - Jedd 4y ago
    Wind turbine blades are next to impossible to recycle or (at the scale we're talking about) re-purpose. 'What What happens to all the old wind turbines?' (bbc.co.uk) [2020] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265321
    - natmaka 4y ago
      https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/cement-production-to-use-old-wind-turbine-blades-after-ge-inks-deal-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/cement-production-to-use-old... https://www.siemensgamesa.com/es-es/-/media/siemensgamesa/downloads/en/sustainability/environment/siemens-gamesa-recycablelblade-infographic-en.pdf https://www.siemensgamesa.com/es-es/-/media/siemensgamesa/do... https://www.ge.com/news/press-releases/towards-circular-wind-turbines-lm-wind-power-to-produce-zero-waste-blades-by-2030 https://www.ge.com/news/press-releases/towards-circular-wind...
    - stephen_g 4y ago
      Even if that was always the case (I'm confident it won't be), compare it to, say, coal fly ash. In my country, coal ash is 1/5th of all waste generated (by weight, I think) over a year. 12 million metric tonnes per year [1]. And that's before even thinking about CO2 and other air pollutants. Wind turbine waste is almost nothing compared to that. Still worth fixing, but perspective is important. 1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-10/coal-ash-has-become-one-of-australias-biggest-waste-problems/10886866 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-10/coal-ash-has-become-o...
      - Jedd 4y ago
        Oh, I don't think this is a significant problem - and agree that the volume of this fairly inert waste product is trivial in comparison to the huge volumes of nasties that come out of fossil fuel power stations. I'm sure these turbine blades will likely continue to be iteratively re-designed to be increasingly recyclable or at least re-purposable as times goes on. I was just answering the question about remediation costs for wind turbines, as this feature of the current popular implementations is often a surprise.
    - duncanawoods 4y ago
      There are 100% recyclable blades (including production byproducts) currently being tested. They are using Elium as the composite material which can be chemically broken down back into glass fibre and resin for reuse. https://www.lmwindpower.com/en/stories-and-press/stories/news-from-lm-places/zebra-project-achieves-key-milestone-with-first-prototype-of-recyclable-blade https://www.lmwindpower.com/en/stories-and-press/stories/new...
  - chinchilla2020 4y ago
    There are massive mining/smelting/manufacturing costs in metal for solar and wind. Solar panels in particular generate massive waste due to the rare earth metals through mine waste, concentrator tailings, leftover leach solution, solution-extraction-electrowinning waste, slag, transportation fuel, etc. Let's not forget the massive fuel costs involved. Solar panels may be tiny but they generate dozens of tons of waste material per panel. There is a good reason all the large mining companies and several of the large oil companies market/lobby their contribution to 'green energy' so zealously. https://www.fcx.com/sustainability/environment#climate https://www.fcx.com/sustainability/environment#climate (I used to work in this vertical)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
wolverine876 4y ago
That's a good point. Carbon is dumped in the air - for free! That's because there is no cost resulting from it. (Edit: Yes, the last sentence is sarcastic.)

> the cost of storing fuel rods onsite for decades This environmental remediation cost is generally missing in comparisons with all other energy sources.

by dqpb 4y ago

> the cost of storing fuel rods onsite for decades This environmental remediation cost is generally missing in comparisons with all other energy sources.

iancmceachern 4y ago

And mining too

anamexis 4y ago

It’s generally missing from the other energy sources as well.

joe_the_user 4y ago
What remediation costs do solar or wind have?
- Jedd 4y ago
  Wind turbine blades are next to impossible to recycle or (at the scale we're talking about) re-purpose. 'What What happens to all the old wind turbines?' (bbc.co.uk) [2020] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265321
  - natmaka 4y ago
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/cement-production-to-use-old-wind-turbine-blades-after-ge-inks-deal-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/cement-production-to-use-old... https://www.siemensgamesa.com/es-es/-/media/siemensgamesa/downloads/en/sustainability/environment/siemens-gamesa-recycablelblade-infographic-en.pdf https://www.siemensgamesa.com/es-es/-/media/siemensgamesa/do... https://www.ge.com/news/press-releases/towards-circular-wind-turbines-lm-wind-power-to-produce-zero-waste-blades-by-2030 https://www.ge.com/news/press-releases/towards-circular-wind...
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    Even if that was always the case (I'm confident it won't be), compare it to, say, coal fly ash. In my country, coal ash is 1/5th of all waste generated (by weight, I think) over a year. 12 million metric tonnes per year [1]. And that's before even thinking about CO2 and other air pollutants. Wind turbine waste is almost nothing compared to that. Still worth fixing, but perspective is important. 1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-10/coal-ash-has-become-one-of-australias-biggest-waste-problems/10886866 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-10/coal-ash-has-become-o...
    - Jedd 4y ago
      Oh, I don't think this is a significant problem - and agree that the volume of this fairly inert waste product is trivial in comparison to the huge volumes of nasties that come out of fossil fuel power stations. I'm sure these turbine blades will likely continue to be iteratively re-designed to be increasingly recyclable or at least re-purposable as times goes on. I was just answering the question about remediation costs for wind turbines, as this feature of the current popular implementations is often a surprise.
  - duncanawoods 4y ago
    There are 100% recyclable blades (including production byproducts) currently being tested. They are using Elium as the composite material which can be chemically broken down back into glass fibre and resin for reuse. https://www.lmwindpower.com/en/stories-and-press/stories/news-from-lm-places/zebra-project-achieves-key-milestone-with-first-prototype-of-recyclable-blade https://www.lmwindpower.com/en/stories-and-press/stories/new...
- chinchilla2020 4y ago
  There are massive mining/smelting/manufacturing costs in metal for solar and wind. Solar panels in particular generate massive waste due to the rare earth metals through mine waste, concentrator tailings, leftover leach solution, solution-extraction-electrowinning waste, slag, transportation fuel, etc. Let's not forget the massive fuel costs involved. Solar panels may be tiny but they generate dozens of tons of waste material per panel. There is a good reason all the large mining companies and several of the large oil companies market/lobby their contribution to 'green energy' so zealously. https://www.fcx.com/sustainability/environment#climate https://www.fcx.com/sustainability/environment#climate (I used to work in this vertical)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

wolverine876 4y ago

That's a good point. Carbon is dumped in the air - for free! That's because there is no cost resulting from it. (Edit: Yes, the last sentence is sarcastic.)