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Vivaldi Mail 1.0: Email client built into the browser

153 points by thm 4y ago

unethical_ban 4y ago
Vivaldi is my android browser, because Firefox has several bugs and anti patterns there. If I were reinstalling my desktop from scratch I would consider Vivaldi desktop as well.
aliswe 4y ago
what did they say about a software that eventually starts to check email?
- mrweasel 4y ago
  "Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html
- srvmshr 4y ago
  Jamie Zawinski's comment is a time tested classic which has survived well e.g. Moore's law or the likes.
geocrasher 4y ago
- eddieroger 4y ago
  Why reply then? Just move on. I don't think this is a product for me, either, but I was curious enough to click through and make that determination, and decided against telling the world. If you're so disinterested that you don't even want do that, why reply?
  - geocrasher 4y ago
    Probably for the same reason you replied to me, oddly enough. Funny how that works.
    - eddieroger 4y ago
      I replied to you out of curiosity, not because your comment wasn't for me. I genuinely want to know.
      - geocrasher 4y ago
        Fair enough, sir. Sorry for the snark. It's one of those things. I edited my original comment to explain why I posted.
- hfsh 4y ago
  Honestly, mail, notes, and calendar are the things that do make sense in a browser for me. Old-school Opera style. Noways we basically do the same anyway, but just in a browser window, not locally. [edit: and RSS feeds. RIP]
  - memling 4y ago
    > [edit: and RSS feeds. RIP] Vivaldi has an integrated RSS reader and Reading List.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  Are you under 25? This "suite" style of World Wide Web tooling was quite popular at the turn of the century. It may not be your style, but I'm surprised at the surprise.
  - geocrasher 4y ago
    Nope, 45. I've seen this come full circle. Hated it the first time around too.
    - hammyhavoc 4y ago
      Yeah, wasn't keen the first time around either. Always felt like a compromise. I like an app for each task, otherwise it just feels like using a blunt knife to cut something tough, for want of a better analogy.
blameitonme 4y ago
I'd use vivaldi if they improve their ui
- memling 4y ago
  > I'd use vivaldi if they improve their ui Suggestions? The interfaces are pretty customizable, so it's surprising to find that this is a particular problem--unless there's something specific.
  - sphars 4y ago
    One of the biggest complaints I've seen (and I've experienced firsthand) is that because Vivaldi is using a completely custom UI for their browser chrome, it's much slower than other other chromium-based browsers. For me, it takes 2-3 seconds from starting the application to being able to use it, thanks to the rendering is has to do. Though I still use Vivaldi thanks to all the customization it offers.
    - taylodl 4y ago
      Isn't a browser something you always have running? Genuinely curious. Yes, Vivaldi takes a couple seconds to launch, but how often do you launch your browser? For me a browser is one of those applications I'm always running and I rarely shutdown my computer except when applying updates so the launch time doesn't really affect me. Just wondering what you're doing different than I.
      - leephillips 4y ago
        The slow startup applies to new Vivaldi windows, too, unfortunately. This affects me because I use windows instead of tabs for the most part. Tabs open quickly, but opening a new window is a 2-second lag.
        taylodl 4y ago
        Interesting! Yes, I rarely open new windows, I'm more of a "keep a thousand tabs open" kinda guy. I can see where that would be a real drag for your workflow.
jtvjan 4y ago
Now just add an IRC client, and they've reinvented the Mozilla suite.
- memling 4y ago
  Vivaldi's predecessor, Opera, actually included an IRC client that I used back in the day. I maintained an interest in Vivaldi because Opera Mail was easily the best client I've ever used, and while Vivaldi Mail lacks a few of the features that I appreciated about Opera (e.g., select-to-quote, default top-quoting/bottom-response, obvious text-based emails), it's still far and away the best current desktop application.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Opera used to have a torrent client.
    - stavros 4y ago
      And an HTTP server.
- marban 4y ago
  Not complete without Gopher.
  - hoistbypetard 4y ago
    Needs Gemini.
- mosdl 4y ago
  History is a closed loop. Maybe they can build their own browser engine!
  - TheRealPomax 4y ago
    "Maybe they can build their own browser again", but the web is not the cute little thing it was back when everyone was writing their own engines. Even a small team literally cannot write a web engine with enough support for the majority of common use cases anymore. It's literally why Vivaldi went with an off the shelf engine and focused on the browser part instead.
leephillips 4y ago
Vivaldi is my main graphical browser. I don’t use the mail client, but I use the feed reader, which shares the interface. It’s convenient, but clunky. You can read news from only one window, so if, like, me, you use windows instead of tabs, you have to search through all of Vivaldi’s open windows to see which one gives you access to the news feed. The update didn’t seem to change anything. I like being able to click on a button to be able to add a site’s feed to Vivaldi’s list, however.
- bmarquez 4y ago
  The great thing about Vivaldi's feed reader is that you can subscribe to YouTube channels without an account (and without any ads as well). https://vivaldi.com/blog/when-it-comes-to-youtube-and-feed-readers-vivaldi-is-ahead-of-the-game/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/when-it-comes-to-youtube-and-feed-r...
  - jszymborski 4y ago
    I do this (albeit with Thunderbird) and honestly it works pretty great.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
    Nothing special: https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/feed-preview/ https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/feed-preview/ gives you the link to subscribe to all the site's feeds from any app/website. You can also set custom URLs in the add-on preferences to integrate with any online feed reader (e.g https://reader.miniflux.app/bookmarklet?uri=%S https://reader.miniflux.app/bookmarklet?uri=%S). I follow Youtube channels this way.
- TheFreim 4y ago
  > use windows instead of tabs I've used Vivaldi as my primary browser for a few months now, doesn't speed cause you any issues when using new windows? I really enjoy many of the Vivaldi features but opening a new window is VERY slow for me (on my good PC and laptop, windows and linux so OS isn't the issue).
alephnan 4y ago
> A powerful email client built right into your browser. But I don't see a link to demo this on the web? There are only CTAs to download?
- lmkg 4y ago
  You seem to be misunderstanding. "Built right into the browser" means that it is a feature of Vivalid, which is a browser, like Chrome. This is the opposite of a page. It's not through the browser, it's built into the browser.
bityard 4y ago
Despite not being open source, I appreciate that Vivaldi lets you customize its UI and behavior to a reasonable degree. It's the closest thing we have a browser for power users, unlike Chrome and Firefox who actively remove useful options and features in an effort to cater to the lowest common denominator (passive content consumers). The built-in mail and calendar functionality looks very nice and I'm definitely interested in trying them out. The main thing I disliked about Vivaldi when I tried it last was that a lot of websites actively try to prevent automatic saving and filling of passwords, against all reasonable logic. Firefox is much better at skirting those efforts, Chrome-based browsers, not so much. Has Vivaldi improved in this regard lately? (Or is there an extension that can help with this?)
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  In regards UI customisation is there anything like Pentadactyl?
- axolotlgod 4y ago
  Regarding the open source part, Jon has spoken about it on a podcast from last year[0][1]. Basically the only think keeping them from full open-source is the license which they think would make the company possibly fall to another competitor. It's hard being a small business, this makes sense to me. They actively encourage modding of the browser too. I'm not sure regarding the prevention of automatic saving/filling. I use Bitwarden and in my time using Vivaldi, I haven't had any issues, though maybe someone in the Vivaldi forums[2] would know? [0]: YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ivDiL9XeDw0?t=3410 https://youtu.be/ivDiL9XeDw0?t=3410 [1]: Podcast website: https://destinationlinux.org/episode-243/ https://destinationlinux.org/episode-243/ [2]: https://forum.vivaldi.net/ https://forum.vivaldi.net/
  - jhasse 4y ago
    Why not use AGPL for the UI code?
    - bastawhiz 4y ago
      That doesn't stop someone from using your code to build a compelling competitor product. It just means you need to pay more lawyers to argue about whether the AGPL was violated or not and maybe win a lawsuit.
longrod 4y ago
I don't see how this is any better than opening a browser tab with a mail client in it? But putting that aside here were a few problems with Vivaldi and their Mail client the last time I tried it. 1. Vivaldi is slow. It's so slow that you could open 2 tabs on Brave/Chrome before it opens. 2. Side loading speed, memory and CPU usage is a lot more compared to other chromium based browsers. Don't know why. 3. And UI. There are so many options in settings. So many options and yet very few of them are something I'd want to change or adjust. I can't skin Vivaldi like Firefox. There are a few toggles and sliders but their overall effect to the UI is minimal. 4. Not to mention that the UI is in no way fancy or unique. But that's just personal preference. I like Chrome's simplicity. It gets out of the way. Vivaldi makes sure you notice the chrome. 5. And then the mailing client. I was really excited to try it out so I logged in via Gmail. As email accounts are these days, it contained thousands of emails. The surprising thing was Vivaldi started syncing all of them. Literally downloading thousands of emails. For no reason other than offline search? Is that really a good enough reason to make the user wait centuries while you index all their emails? Maybe they have added some option to specify which folders you want synced. 6. Aside from that, it was really buggy. Opening emails, composing, etc. Now that it's out of beta I hope those are fixed. I went to Vivaldi for the UI. I had heard it was customizable. I left Vivaldi while it was still loading...
- josefresco 4y ago
  >1. Vivaldi is slow. Vivaldi is not slow. I use Chrome, Firefox and Vivaldi every single day and haven't notice a single hesitation or lag when launching it. Do you have a very slow PC?
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    One could argue that if an app in a class of apps is slow on given hardware while others are not, it's slow, particularly for something as basic and essential as a web browser.
    - TheRealPomax 4y ago
      One could, but that's not the argument that was being made. I too use Firefox, Chrome, and Vivaldi on a daily basis and one of those three feels slower than the other two due to when UI aspects update, and it's not Vivaldi.
sergiotapia 4y ago
Just set up my email and calendar with Vivaldi. I'm probably going to switch from Brave, the features work really well. I miss Opera so much this feels like home. I'm back in 2004. :)
- e9 4y ago
  Is there a reason why you are not happy with current Opera browser?
  - e9 4y ago
    this was a sincere legitimate question from me, I don't understand why it got downvoted
encryptluks2 4y ago
I see people give Chromium crap, but then you have a browser that is closed source now with access to your email and everyone is okay with that?
- michaelcampbell 4y ago
  Not everyone, no, but I'd wager 97% are.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  Different demographics will critique different aspects of different software. There will be an overlap between them, but it will be relatively small versus the people outside of the overlapping demographics who have used both. E.g. I have tried Vivaldi, but it not being open source means I don't have a horse in the race. I also don't like Chromium-based browsers. Which really just leaves Firefox, which I also don't like, because Mozilla the ever-increasingly out-of-touch company. FWIW: I hypocritically use Gmail because the UX is pretty much better than the sorry state of native email clients available on Linux. With that said, I also don't use email for anything sensitive, that goes via Matrix. Would I give access to my Gmail to Vivaldi? No.
- TheRealPomax 4y ago
  Not sure how "closed source" is something to have a problem with in this context? Outlook is closed source, Apple Mail is closed source, and with rounding we all still use those too?
programmarchy 4y ago
For a minute, I thought this was a web app that did POP/IMAP/SMTP in the browser without a server backend, but I suppose that wouldn't be possible without browser extensions.
siproprio 4y ago
Last time I tried to use vivaldi for day to day browsing, I gave up because it was too slow. Have they fixed this?
- niccl 4y ago
  Anecdata: I've been using it for a couple of years and not had any concerns with speed. I don't know what faster would be. I occasionally have to use firefox or something else on corporate machines and Vivaldi doesn't seem any slower than that on any sites I visit. I do use Pihole to get rid of ads so maybe that's a factor
- TheFreim 4y ago
  I use Vivaldi and there are no speed issues except the initial startup time and new window launch time. Since I always have a browser open on my machine the initial startup time isn't noticed and since I use tabs+tab-groups the new window time also doesn't matter, but it is a real pain when I /do/ want multiple windows.
eikeegi 4y ago
For the life of me, I am unable to add an account to Vivaldi Mail. I am not 100% sure, but I am guessing that the error is "ReferenceError document is not defined". Edit: after restarting, the message is "Mail client startup failed. Error: Not yet support for changing primary key".
Zachsa999 4y ago
Everyone be critiquing its software license, speed, Gui, but holy crap tab tiling is the best feature, it increases productivity by a little bit. How many times to you get confused which browser window is in focus on your desktop
- TheFreim 4y ago
  > tab tiling is the best feature [...] How many times to you get confused which browser window is in focus on your desktop If I'm just using my browser on a window then tab tiling is a great feature, I've used it quite a bit in Vivaldi, but the second I start using windows other than my browser it gets confusing because I have to remember two sets of bindings.
  - Zachsa999 4y ago
    Ctrl for tabs Win key for Windows
zeagle 4y ago
The killer feature that would make me use this would be EWS/OWA support. I have used davmail and evolution to access my work email this way and very few clients seem to be able to do this. Emclient is probably the best but stopped working presumably due to changes on our end so no great windows solution currently for me.
forgotpwd16 4y ago
Related, for anyone wanting a browser that has everything but the kitchen sink, SeaMonkey is still alive.
szundi 4y ago
Tried months, maybe a year ago. Could not handle my 15 year old corporate email accont with 300k emails.
pipeline_peak 4y ago
2006?
z3t4 4y ago
RIP Opera mail, where you could sort mail using Bayesian filters and everything was grouped by date.
- pornel 4y ago
  Opera Mail was awesome. I've used it while I was involved in W3C, and I could easily manage the barrage of bikeshed in multiple mailing lists thanks to its deep tree view of threads with fine-grained mute for any subtree. Nowadays all clients flatten email threads to a single list, and that becomes unmanageable beyond a handful of e-mails ;(
  - memling 4y ago
    > Opera Mail was awesome. Among other killer features, the automatic sorting into mailing lists was huge for me: no more filtering, no more clutter. Opera mail was really a great client.
kelthuzad 4y ago
I would prefer a Vivaldi light version without all the bloat.
morsch 4y ago
Well, I'm trying out Vivaldi on Android. I've been using Firefox for, well, forever, but the tab handling[1] is bad enough that I'm willing to jump ship. So far it's... different? The tab handling is better, and I think I like having actual tabs in a mobile browser. I'm disappointed that the tab groups don't work as well as in Chrome. I like the link preview feature, in fact I could imagine all links opening like that by default (but that's not an option). I don't find it all that customizable, that only seems to be true for the desktop version. For example, I can't get seem to rid of the history button (which is styled like a sidebar button despite opening full screen). There is no reader mode. There are page actions, which let you apply all kinds of nonsensical CSS effects such as blur. But no reader mode. The built-in content blocker doesn't remove cosmetic annoyances as effectively as Ublock does, which makes me miss reader mode all the more. There don't seem to be any add-ons. Overall, not entirely convincing. 1. https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/20012#issuecomment-1116548779 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/20012#issueco...
- keyneus 4y ago
  > There is no reader mode. There is, but as far as I know it's not something you can manually toggle. On sites which Vivaldi deems can be shown in reader mode, you're prompted to switch to it. I don't know what criteria it uses to determine that. It has to be enabled: Settings→Accessibility→Simplified view for web pages
  - morsch 4y ago
    Thanks, that's pretty much equivalent to reader mode then. Though for some reason you cannot switch to other tabs while viewing one page on simplified mode? Weird.
c_prompt 4y ago
I continue to question why email clients with calendar, contacts, and tasks functionality don't have local sync integrated with Android or iPhone. Having said that, outside those "basic" integrated functions, my top 3 requirements to switch from Outlook are: - Full encryption integrated into the client for all data (e.g., I don't want Windows Search able to index the mail so someone has access when the client is closed/unencrypted; I also remember testing Thunderbird years ago and was able to go into the individual unencrypted .eml files [I think that's what they were] and read the messages without having Thunderbird opened) - Full local sync with Android/iPhone (i.e., home WiFi, Bluetooth, or USB cable); it still amazes me that Thunderbird still doesn't have this built-in - Xobni-like functionality (e.g., showing all emails and attachments to/from sender when clicking on an email, keyword searches); yes, I know the plugin is still available but it doesn't work properly with current Outlook versions
lizardactivist 4y ago
To me it makes perfect sense to combine e-mail and browser into one, with a single click you can either view your web tabs, or your e-mail. I think what stopped me from switching to Vivaldi last time was lack of secure DNS with DoT or DoH, and no control over TLS 0RTT, which is a critical security hole masquerading as a performance optimization.
WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
I don’t know why, but all local email clients lately suck. Mutt sucks more, not less. They all get confused about your mailboxes having tens of thousands of messages, an unavoidable side effect of your email provider giving you many gigabytes of email space. They all fuck up your threads. They all freeze while pulling another thousand of headers for that high-traffic mailing list. They all suck mightily at search. They all have a broken UI paradigm and show you the least important thing first. Believe you me, I tried them all. Actually, the only email client that sucked the least of them all was Microsoft Outlook. I’d never believe I’d admit it while sober, but here I am. Now it looks like your email provider’s webmail is not that bad, unless it’s some sort of imap client on server (RoundCube, for example). It efficiently delivers a view into your whole mailbox without downloading the whole thing. Search works better. You define your email rules and they work at the source. Dunno, man, the world sucks in general, and the world of email in particular.
- david_draco 4y ago
  Have a look at notmuch
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  Agreed. All I want is the ability to grep my mail.
  - dspillett 4y ago
    I've done that when searching in-app has failed me, grepping through the mail store on a zimbra instance. Only useful for plain mail though, unless you are scanning headers not bodies. One day I might write a script to harvest IMAP accounts into a database (unpacking encodings on the way into the DB, and sitting a few other transforms & derivations where relevant like finding the local "received for" information and putting it in an efficiently searchable column, so things are easily located) so I can just SQL the crap out of it. Doing the same to a filesystem structure designed for easy getting might work if you'd prefer that.
  - qudat 4y ago
    Try `magrep` from `mblaze`. All you need is a maildir. https://github.com/leahneukirchen/mblaze https://github.com/leahneukirchen/mblaze
hbbio 4y ago
Ah, Netscape Communicator?
z9znz 4y ago
Who funds them, and why? What's the profit plan?
- gilrain 4y ago
  https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ This is a real strength of Vivaldi’s, in my opinion!
  - z9znz 4y ago
    Thank you. This seems quite reasonable.
stereoradonc 4y ago
You can customise it with keyboard shortcuts, and a small time investment can give you efficiency gains, manifold!
slategruen 4y ago
I'd use Vivaldi again when kinetic scrolling finally works in Wayland. AFAIK, the Chromium feature request regarding this is already 3 years old.

153 points by thm 4y ago

Vivaldi is my android browser, because Firefox has several bugs and anti patterns there. If I were reinstalling my desktop from scratch I would consider Vivaldi desktop as well.

aliswe 4y ago

what did they say about a software that eventually starts to check email?

mrweasel 4y ago
"Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html
srvmshr 4y ago
Jamie Zawinski's comment is a time tested classic which has survived well e.g. Moore's law or the likes.

geocrasher 4y ago

eddieroger 4y ago
Why reply then? Just move on. I don't think this is a product for me, either, but I was curious enough to click through and make that determination, and decided against telling the world. If you're so disinterested that you don't even want do that, why reply?
- geocrasher 4y ago
  Probably for the same reason you replied to me, oddly enough. Funny how that works.
  - eddieroger 4y ago
    I replied to you out of curiosity, not because your comment wasn't for me. I genuinely want to know.
    - geocrasher 4y ago
      Fair enough, sir. Sorry for the snark. It's one of those things. I edited my original comment to explain why I posted.
hfsh 4y ago
Honestly, mail, notes, and calendar are the things that do make sense in a browser for me. Old-school Opera style. Noways we basically do the same anyway, but just in a browser window, not locally. [edit: and RSS feeds. RIP]
- memling 4y ago
  > [edit: and RSS feeds. RIP] Vivaldi has an integrated RSS reader and Reading List.
unethical_ban 4y ago
Are you under 25? This "suite" style of World Wide Web tooling was quite popular at the turn of the century. It may not be your style, but I'm surprised at the surprise.
- geocrasher 4y ago
  Nope, 45. I've seen this come full circle. Hated it the first time around too.
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    Yeah, wasn't keen the first time around either. Always felt like a compromise. I like an app for each task, otherwise it just feels like using a blunt knife to cut something tough, for want of a better analogy.

blameitonme 4y ago

I'd use vivaldi if they improve their ui

memling 4y ago
> I'd use vivaldi if they improve their ui Suggestions? The interfaces are pretty customizable, so it's surprising to find that this is a particular problem--unless there's something specific.
- sphars 4y ago
  One of the biggest complaints I've seen (and I've experienced firsthand) is that because Vivaldi is using a completely custom UI for their browser chrome, it's much slower than other other chromium-based browsers. For me, it takes 2-3 seconds from starting the application to being able to use it, thanks to the rendering is has to do. Though I still use Vivaldi thanks to all the customization it offers.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    Isn't a browser something you always have running? Genuinely curious. Yes, Vivaldi takes a couple seconds to launch, but how often do you launch your browser? For me a browser is one of those applications I'm always running and I rarely shutdown my computer except when applying updates so the launch time doesn't really affect me. Just wondering what you're doing different than I.
    - leephillips 4y ago
      The slow startup applies to new Vivaldi windows, too, unfortunately. This affects me because I use windows instead of tabs for the most part. Tabs open quickly, but opening a new window is a 2-second lag.
      - taylodl 4y ago
        Interesting! Yes, I rarely open new windows, I'm more of a "keep a thousand tabs open" kinda guy. I can see where that would be a real drag for your workflow.

jtvjan 4y ago

Now just add an IRC client, and they've reinvented the Mozilla suite.

memling 4y ago
Vivaldi's predecessor, Opera, actually included an IRC client that I used back in the day. I maintained an interest in Vivaldi because Opera Mail was easily the best client I've ever used, and while Vivaldi Mail lacks a few of the features that I appreciated about Opera (e.g., select-to-quote, default top-quoting/bottom-response, obvious text-based emails), it's still far and away the best current desktop application.
- oblio 4y ago
  Opera used to have a torrent client.
  - stavros 4y ago
    And an HTTP server.
marban 4y ago
Not complete without Gopher.
- hoistbypetard 4y ago
  Needs Gemini.
mosdl 4y ago
History is a closed loop. Maybe they can build their own browser engine!
- TheRealPomax 4y ago
  "Maybe they can build their own browser again", but the web is not the cute little thing it was back when everyone was writing their own engines. Even a small team literally cannot write a web engine with enough support for the majority of common use cases anymore. It's literally why Vivaldi went with an off the shelf engine and focused on the browser part instead.

leephillips 4y ago

Vivaldi is my main graphical browser. I don’t use the mail client, but I use the feed reader, which shares the interface. It’s convenient, but clunky. You can read news from only one window, so if, like, me, you use windows instead of tabs, you have to search through all of Vivaldi’s open windows to see which one gives you access to the news feed. The update didn’t seem to change anything. I like being able to click on a button to be able to add a site’s feed to Vivaldi’s list, however.

bmarquez 4y ago
The great thing about Vivaldi's feed reader is that you can subscribe to YouTube channels without an account (and without any ads as well). https://vivaldi.com/blog/when-it-comes-to-youtube-and-feed-readers-vivaldi-is-ahead-of-the-game/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/when-it-comes-to-youtube-and-feed-r...
- jszymborski 4y ago
  I do this (albeit with Thunderbird) and honestly it works pretty great.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
  Nothing special: https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/feed-preview/ https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/feed-preview/ gives you the link to subscribe to all the site's feeds from any app/website. You can also set custom URLs in the add-on preferences to integrate with any online feed reader (e.g https://reader.miniflux.app/bookmarklet?uri=%S https://reader.miniflux.app/bookmarklet?uri=%S). I follow Youtube channels this way.
TheFreim 4y ago
> use windows instead of tabs I've used Vivaldi as my primary browser for a few months now, doesn't speed cause you any issues when using new windows? I really enjoy many of the Vivaldi features but opening a new window is VERY slow for me (on my good PC and laptop, windows and linux so OS isn't the issue).

alephnan 4y ago

> A powerful email client built right into your browser. But I don't see a link to demo this on the web? There are only CTAs to download?

lmkg 4y ago
You seem to be misunderstanding. "Built right into the browser" means that it is a feature of Vivalid, which is a browser, like Chrome. This is the opposite of a page. It's not through the browser, it's built into the browser.

bityard 4y ago

Despite not being open source, I appreciate that Vivaldi lets you customize its UI and behavior to a reasonable degree. It's the closest thing we have a browser for power users, unlike Chrome and Firefox who actively remove useful options and features in an effort to cater to the lowest common denominator (passive content consumers). The built-in mail and calendar functionality looks very nice and I'm definitely interested in trying them out. The main thing I disliked about Vivaldi when I tried it last was that a lot of websites actively try to prevent automatic saving and filling of passwords, against all reasonable logic. Firefox is much better at skirting those efforts, Chrome-based browsers, not so much. Has Vivaldi improved in this regard lately? (Or is there an extension that can help with this?)

AlecSchueler 4y ago
In regards UI customisation is there anything like Pentadactyl?
axolotlgod 4y ago
Regarding the open source part, Jon has spoken about it on a podcast from last year[0][1]. Basically the only think keeping them from full open-source is the license which they think would make the company possibly fall to another competitor. It's hard being a small business, this makes sense to me. They actively encourage modding of the browser too. I'm not sure regarding the prevention of automatic saving/filling. I use Bitwarden and in my time using Vivaldi, I haven't had any issues, though maybe someone in the Vivaldi forums[2] would know? [0]: YouTube link: https://youtu.be/ivDiL9XeDw0?t=3410 https://youtu.be/ivDiL9XeDw0?t=3410 [1]: Podcast website: https://destinationlinux.org/episode-243/ https://destinationlinux.org/episode-243/ [2]: https://forum.vivaldi.net/ https://forum.vivaldi.net/
- jhasse 4y ago
  Why not use AGPL for the UI code?
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    That doesn't stop someone from using your code to build a compelling competitor product. It just means you need to pay more lawyers to argue about whether the AGPL was violated or not and maybe win a lawsuit.

longrod 4y ago

I don't see how this is any better than opening a browser tab with a mail client in it? But putting that aside here were a few problems with Vivaldi and their Mail client the last time I tried it. 1. Vivaldi is slow. It's so slow that you could open 2 tabs on Brave/Chrome before it opens. 2. Side loading speed, memory and CPU usage is a lot more compared to other chromium based browsers. Don't know why. 3. And UI. There are so many options in settings. So many options and yet very few of them are something I'd want to change or adjust. I can't skin Vivaldi like Firefox. There are a few toggles and sliders but their overall effect to the UI is minimal. 4. Not to mention that the UI is in no way fancy or unique. But that's just personal preference. I like Chrome's simplicity. It gets out of the way. Vivaldi makes sure you notice the chrome. 5. And then the mailing client. I was really excited to try it out so I logged in via Gmail. As email accounts are these days, it contained thousands of emails. The surprising thing was Vivaldi started syncing all of them. Literally downloading thousands of emails. For no reason other than offline search? Is that really a good enough reason to make the user wait centuries while you index all their emails? Maybe they have added some option to specify which folders you want synced. 6. Aside from that, it was really buggy. Opening emails, composing, etc. Now that it's out of beta I hope those are fixed. I went to Vivaldi for the UI. I had heard it was customizable. I left Vivaldi while it was still loading...

josefresco 4y ago
>1. Vivaldi is slow. Vivaldi is not slow. I use Chrome, Firefox and Vivaldi every single day and haven't notice a single hesitation or lag when launching it. Do you have a very slow PC?
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  One could argue that if an app in a class of apps is slow on given hardware while others are not, it's slow, particularly for something as basic and essential as a web browser.
  - TheRealPomax 4y ago
    One could, but that's not the argument that was being made. I too use Firefox, Chrome, and Vivaldi on a daily basis and one of those three feels slower than the other two due to when UI aspects update, and it's not Vivaldi.

sergiotapia 4y ago

Just set up my email and calendar with Vivaldi. I'm probably going to switch from Brave, the features work really well. I miss Opera so much this feels like home. I'm back in 2004. :)

e9 4y ago
Is there a reason why you are not happy with current Opera browser?
- e9 4y ago
  this was a sincere legitimate question from me, I don't understand why it got downvoted

encryptluks2 4y ago

I see people give Chromium crap, but then you have a browser that is closed source now with access to your email and everyone is okay with that?

michaelcampbell 4y ago
Not everyone, no, but I'd wager 97% are.
hammyhavoc 4y ago
Different demographics will critique different aspects of different software. There will be an overlap between them, but it will be relatively small versus the people outside of the overlapping demographics who have used both. E.g. I have tried Vivaldi, but it not being open source means I don't have a horse in the race. I also don't like Chromium-based browsers. Which really just leaves Firefox, which I also don't like, because Mozilla the ever-increasingly out-of-touch company. FWIW: I hypocritically use Gmail because the UX is pretty much better than the sorry state of native email clients available on Linux. With that said, I also don't use email for anything sensitive, that goes via Matrix. Would I give access to my Gmail to Vivaldi? No.
TheRealPomax 4y ago
Not sure how "closed source" is something to have a problem with in this context? Outlook is closed source, Apple Mail is closed source, and with rounding we all still use those too?

programmarchy 4y ago

For a minute, I thought this was a web app that did POP/IMAP/SMTP in the browser without a server backend, but I suppose that wouldn't be possible without browser extensions.

siproprio 4y ago

Last time I tried to use vivaldi for day to day browsing, I gave up because it was too slow. Have they fixed this?

niccl 4y ago
Anecdata: I've been using it for a couple of years and not had any concerns with speed. I don't know what faster would be. I occasionally have to use firefox or something else on corporate machines and Vivaldi doesn't seem any slower than that on any sites I visit. I do use Pihole to get rid of ads so maybe that's a factor
TheFreim 4y ago
I use Vivaldi and there are no speed issues except the initial startup time and new window launch time. Since I always have a browser open on my machine the initial startup time isn't noticed and since I use tabs+tab-groups the new window time also doesn't matter, but it is a real pain when I /do/ want multiple windows.

eikeegi 4y ago

For the life of me, I am unable to add an account to Vivaldi Mail. I am not 100% sure, but I am guessing that the error is "ReferenceError document is not defined". Edit: after restarting, the message is "Mail client startup failed. Error: Not yet support for changing primary key".

Zachsa999 4y ago

Everyone be critiquing its software license, speed, Gui, but holy crap tab tiling is the best feature, it increases productivity by a little bit. How many times to you get confused which browser window is in focus on your desktop

TheFreim 4y ago
> tab tiling is the best feature [...] How many times to you get confused which browser window is in focus on your desktop If I'm just using my browser on a window then tab tiling is a great feature, I've used it quite a bit in Vivaldi, but the second I start using windows other than my browser it gets confusing because I have to remember two sets of bindings.
- Zachsa999 4y ago
  Ctrl for tabs Win key for Windows

zeagle 4y ago

The killer feature that would make me use this would be EWS/OWA support. I have used davmail and evolution to access my work email this way and very few clients seem to be able to do this. Emclient is probably the best but stopped working presumably due to changes on our end so no great windows solution currently for me.

forgotpwd16 4y ago

Related, for anyone wanting a browser that has everything but the kitchen sink, SeaMonkey is still alive.

szundi 4y ago

Tried months, maybe a year ago. Could not handle my 15 year old corporate email accont with 300k emails.

pipeline_peak 4y ago

2006?

z3t4 4y ago

RIP Opera mail, where you could sort mail using Bayesian filters and everything was grouped by date.

pornel 4y ago
Opera Mail was awesome. I've used it while I was involved in W3C, and I could easily manage the barrage of bikeshed in multiple mailing lists thanks to its deep tree view of threads with fine-grained mute for any subtree. Nowadays all clients flatten email threads to a single list, and that becomes unmanageable beyond a handful of e-mails ;(
- memling 4y ago
  > Opera Mail was awesome. Among other killer features, the automatic sorting into mailing lists was huge for me: no more filtering, no more clutter. Opera mail was really a great client.

kelthuzad 4y ago

I would prefer a Vivaldi light version without all the bloat.

morsch 4y ago

Well, I'm trying out Vivaldi on Android. I've been using Firefox for, well, forever, but the tab handling[1] is bad enough that I'm willing to jump ship. So far it's... different? The tab handling is better, and I think I like having actual tabs in a mobile browser. I'm disappointed that the tab groups don't work as well as in Chrome. I like the link preview feature, in fact I could imagine all links opening like that by default (but that's not an option). I don't find it all that customizable, that only seems to be true for the desktop version. For example, I can't get seem to rid of the history button (which is styled like a sidebar button despite opening full screen). There is no reader mode. There are page actions, which let you apply all kinds of nonsensical CSS effects such as blur. But no reader mode. The built-in content blocker doesn't remove cosmetic annoyances as effectively as Ublock does, which makes me miss reader mode all the more. There don't seem to be any add-ons. Overall, not entirely convincing. 1. https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/20012#issuecomment-1116548779 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/20012#issueco...

keyneus 4y ago
> There is no reader mode. There is, but as far as I know it's not something you can manually toggle. On sites which Vivaldi deems can be shown in reader mode, you're prompted to switch to it. I don't know what criteria it uses to determine that. It has to be enabled: Settings→Accessibility→Simplified view for web pages
- morsch 4y ago
  Thanks, that's pretty much equivalent to reader mode then. Though for some reason you cannot switch to other tabs while viewing one page on simplified mode? Weird.

c_prompt 4y ago

I continue to question why email clients with calendar, contacts, and tasks functionality don't have local sync integrated with Android or iPhone. Having said that, outside those "basic" integrated functions, my top 3 requirements to switch from Outlook are: - Full encryption integrated into the client for all data (e.g., I don't want Windows Search able to index the mail so someone has access when the client is closed/unencrypted; I also remember testing Thunderbird years ago and was able to go into the individual unencrypted .eml files [I think that's what they were] and read the messages without having Thunderbird opened) - Full local sync with Android/iPhone (i.e., home WiFi, Bluetooth, or USB cable); it still amazes me that Thunderbird still doesn't have this built-in - Xobni-like functionality (e.g., showing all emails and attachments to/from sender when clicking on an email, keyword searches); yes, I know the plugin is still available but it doesn't work properly with current Outlook versions

lizardactivist 4y ago

To me it makes perfect sense to combine e-mail and browser into one, with a single click you can either view your web tabs, or your e-mail. I think what stopped me from switching to Vivaldi last time was lack of secure DNS with DoT or DoH, and no control over TLS 0RTT, which is a critical security hole masquerading as a performance optimization.

WesolyKubeczek 4y ago

I don’t know why, but all local email clients lately suck. Mutt sucks more, not less. They all get confused about your mailboxes having tens of thousands of messages, an unavoidable side effect of your email provider giving you many gigabytes of email space. They all fuck up your threads. They all freeze while pulling another thousand of headers for that high-traffic mailing list. They all suck mightily at search. They all have a broken UI paradigm and show you the least important thing first. Believe you me, I tried them all. Actually, the only email client that sucked the least of them all was Microsoft Outlook. I’d never believe I’d admit it while sober, but here I am. Now it looks like your email provider’s webmail is not that bad, unless it’s some sort of imap client on server (RoundCube, for example). It efficiently delivers a view into your whole mailbox without downloading the whole thing. Search works better. You define your email rules and they work at the source. Dunno, man, the world sucks in general, and the world of email in particular.

david_draco 4y ago
Have a look at notmuch
hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
Agreed. All I want is the ability to grep my mail.
- dspillett 4y ago
  I've done that when searching in-app has failed me, grepping through the mail store on a zimbra instance. Only useful for plain mail though, unless you are scanning headers not bodies. One day I might write a script to harvest IMAP accounts into a database (unpacking encodings on the way into the DB, and sitting a few other transforms & derivations where relevant like finding the local "received for" information and putting it in an efficiently searchable column, so things are easily located) so I can just SQL the crap out of it. Doing the same to a filesystem structure designed for easy getting might work if you'd prefer that.
- qudat 4y ago
  Try `magrep` from `mblaze`. All you need is a maildir. https://github.com/leahneukirchen/mblaze https://github.com/leahneukirchen/mblaze

hbbio 4y ago

Ah, Netscape Communicator?

z9znz 4y ago

Who funds them, and why? What's the profit plan?

gilrain 4y ago
https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ This is a real strength of Vivaldi’s, in my opinion!
- z9znz 4y ago
  Thank you. This seems quite reasonable.

stereoradonc 4y ago

You can customise it with keyboard shortcuts, and a small time investment can give you efficiency gains, manifold!

slategruen 4y ago

I'd use Vivaldi again when kinetic scrolling finally works in Wayland. AFAIK, the Chromium feature request regarding this is already 3 years old.