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> When that happens, though, Colombia will face a challenge from Spain and an indigenous group in Bolivia to determine who keeps the bounty. They should de div

> When that happens, though, Colombia will face a challenge from Spain and an indigenous group in Bolivia to determine who keeps the bounty. They should de divide the gold between all the natives (indigenous) of the region. I don't think the gold should go to Colombia simply because that country did exist back then, the Spanish were stealing from natives. At the very least they should give all the gold to some branch of government concerned with indigenous rights.

FpUser 4y ago
>"They should de divide the gold between all the natives" I wish. But in practice I'd say when the hell freezes over.
- dylan604 4y ago
  >when the hell freezes over as if there is only one. i live at least 3 different hells per day
oh_sigh 4y ago
To be fair, the natives who would receive the money didn't exist either back then.
- smt88 4y ago
  > To be fair There's no way to be fair with this. There is no "rightful owner" of this gold, so anything that's done with it is unfair in some way. It's true that the descendants of the people who were harmed in the collection (stealing, mining, or both) of that gold were not alive then, but their current conditions were determined by the behavior of the colonists who collected the gold. They would have inherited a very different (likely better) life if the colonists had not arrived.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    > They would have inherited a very different (likely better) life if the colonists had not arrived. This presents a very rosy-glasses version of history, likely based on the noble savage myth. Do you have any idea how the standard of living has changed in the past 600 years? Malnutrition, disease, lifespan, hours of leisure, infant mortality, are all far better today than they were in Precolumbian south america, even among the poor.
    - RobertoG 4y ago
      Better today that they were in Precolonial South-America and better that they were in Europe at the time.
  - towaway15463 4y ago
    They might have been up to the bronze age by now
BbzzbB 4y ago
>Spain insists that the bounty is theirs since it was aboard a Spanish ship This quote is making my head spin, what a damn bold statement from a modern democracy. "Yeah you know how our ancestors enslaved, murdered and plundered your natives? Well, we're calling dibs on that bounty, after all conquistadors dropped it as they were heading home." Granted, the article doesn't establish who exactly is "Spain".
- chrisco255 4y ago
  Much of the population of hispanic America are descendants of both natives and conquistadors.
  - lentil_soup 4y ago
    Plus the black african slaves brought by the conquistadores. A truly mixed area. This mix gave way to a second generation of "mestizos", "zambos" and "mulatos". I imagine those words are problematic now, but that's what I was taught in school in south america
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  That's standard practice for shipwrecks. I believe it's part of maritime law, but don't quote me one that.
  - BbzzbB 4y ago
    Thanks, I did wonder as I was typing my comment if it's par for the course. Do you know of recent examples where historical empires/colonizers (basically France, UK, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands or Belgium, do I forget someone?) claimed shipwrecks of locally plundered loot? Granted, it wouldn't make me agree with the position morally even if it's not unusual. Some Spaniard art or other cultural heritage on board sounds reasonable, but the obviously plundered bounty irks me.
    - Rebelgecko 4y ago
      Pretty much always, I think. The Black Swan Treasure is an interesting case. Peru, the US salvage company, and Spain all made cases for the treasure. It was found off the coast of Gibraltar, and Spain doesn't really agree with their borders/sovereignty. There were also allegedly some shenanigans involving the US State Department offering to facilitate the return of the treasure to Spain if Spain helped return a painting that had previously been stolen by Nazis.
gfarah 4y ago
I think it would be better to spend it on broad social programs. Around 90% of Colombians have some form of Amerindian ancestry. Less than 5% are fully Amerindians.
nonethewiser 4y ago
Is it in Columbia's waters? Then its Columbia's.
- dylan604 4y ago
  If I have a milkshake and you have a milkshake, but I have a straw that reaches all the way to your milkshake, then I have all the milkshake. s/milkshake/sunken treasure/g
- poisonarena 4y ago
  Colombia, Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(personification) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(personification) has everything she needs
meowtimemania 4y ago
There's ~50 million Colombians, if the wreckage is worth 14 billion, then 14 billion / 50 million = $280 USD per person. I think it'd be better to put it in a museum and donate proceeds to some social program. The museum could have a positive impact on the economy.
- blackoil 4y ago
  I think OP is suggesting to share it with museums across Caribbean and not just Colombia.
elnatro 4y ago
- Most of the Colombians are descendants of Spaniards. - The law of the sea recognizes that the cargo of a shipwreck belongs to the country of the ship’s flag. There was no Colombia nation at the time of the shipwreck.
Gatsky 4y ago
One solution is to make Spain pay for the retrieval plus charge them an astronomical finders fee. Spain can then keep whatever is retrieved, including the colonial baggage.
towaway15463 4y ago
by this logic, all of the Americas should be returned to the descendants of the native peoples. I guess we’ll all just go home, all the Europeans back to Europe, Chinese back to China, Africans back to Africa. Quickly now, once we get back we’ll have to do the next round of figuring out how to return the stolen heritage looted by the Roman Empire and the Qin dynasty and the Rashidun Caliphate. We’ve got thousands of years of history to go through people! Look alive now!

FpUser 4y ago

>"They should de divide the gold between all the natives" I wish. But in practice I'd say when the hell freezes over.

dylan604 4y ago
>when the hell freezes over as if there is only one. i live at least 3 different hells per day

oh_sigh 4y ago

To be fair, the natives who would receive the money didn't exist either back then.

smt88 4y ago
> To be fair There's no way to be fair with this. There is no "rightful owner" of this gold, so anything that's done with it is unfair in some way. It's true that the descendants of the people who were harmed in the collection (stealing, mining, or both) of that gold were not alive then, but their current conditions were determined by the behavior of the colonists who collected the gold. They would have inherited a very different (likely better) life if the colonists had not arrived.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  > They would have inherited a very different (likely better) life if the colonists had not arrived. This presents a very rosy-glasses version of history, likely based on the noble savage myth. Do you have any idea how the standard of living has changed in the past 600 years? Malnutrition, disease, lifespan, hours of leisure, infant mortality, are all far better today than they were in Precolumbian south america, even among the poor.
  - RobertoG 4y ago
    Better today that they were in Precolonial South-America and better that they were in Europe at the time.
- towaway15463 4y ago
  They might have been up to the bronze age by now

BbzzbB 4y ago

>Spain insists that the bounty is theirs since it was aboard a Spanish ship This quote is making my head spin, what a damn bold statement from a modern democracy. "Yeah you know how our ancestors enslaved, murdered and plundered your natives? Well, we're calling dibs on that bounty, after all conquistadors dropped it as they were heading home." Granted, the article doesn't establish who exactly is "Spain".

chrisco255 4y ago
Much of the population of hispanic America are descendants of both natives and conquistadors.
- lentil_soup 4y ago
  Plus the black african slaves brought by the conquistadores. A truly mixed area. This mix gave way to a second generation of "mestizos", "zambos" and "mulatos". I imagine those words are problematic now, but that's what I was taught in school in south america
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
That's standard practice for shipwrecks. I believe it's part of maritime law, but don't quote me one that.
- BbzzbB 4y ago
  Thanks, I did wonder as I was typing my comment if it's par for the course. Do you know of recent examples where historical empires/colonizers (basically France, UK, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands or Belgium, do I forget someone?) claimed shipwrecks of locally plundered loot? Granted, it wouldn't make me agree with the position morally even if it's not unusual. Some Spaniard art or other cultural heritage on board sounds reasonable, but the obviously plundered bounty irks me.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    Pretty much always, I think. The Black Swan Treasure is an interesting case. Peru, the US salvage company, and Spain all made cases for the treasure. It was found off the coast of Gibraltar, and Spain doesn't really agree with their borders/sovereignty. There were also allegedly some shenanigans involving the US State Department offering to facilitate the return of the treasure to Spain if Spain helped return a painting that had previously been stolen by Nazis.

gfarah 4y ago

I think it would be better to spend it on broad social programs. Around 90% of Colombians have some form of Amerindian ancestry. Less than 5% are fully Amerindians.

nonethewiser 4y ago

Is it in Columbia's waters? Then its Columbia's.

dylan604 4y ago
If I have a milkshake and you have a milkshake, but I have a straw that reaches all the way to your milkshake, then I have all the milkshake. s/milkshake/sunken treasure/g
poisonarena 4y ago
Colombia, Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(personification) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(personification) has everything she needs

meowtimemania 4y ago

There's ~50 million Colombians, if the wreckage is worth 14 billion, then 14 billion / 50 million = $280 USD per person. I think it'd be better to put it in a museum and donate proceeds to some social program. The museum could have a positive impact on the economy.

blackoil 4y ago
I think OP is suggesting to share it with museums across Caribbean and not just Colombia.

elnatro 4y ago

- Most of the Colombians are descendants of Spaniards. - The law of the sea recognizes that the cargo of a shipwreck belongs to the country of the ship’s flag. There was no Colombia nation at the time of the shipwreck.

Gatsky 4y ago

One solution is to make Spain pay for the retrieval plus charge them an astronomical finders fee. Spain can then keep whatever is retrieved, including the colonial baggage.

towaway15463 4y ago

by this logic, all of the Americas should be returned to the descendants of the native peoples. I guess we’ll all just go home, all the Europeans back to Europe, Chinese back to China, Africans back to Africa. Quickly now, once we get back we’ll have to do the next round of figuring out how to return the stolen heritage looted by the Roman Empire and the Qin dynasty and the Rashidun Caliphate. We’ve got thousands of years of history to go through people! Look alive now!