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Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving th

by moomin 15y ago

Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.

the100rabh 15y ago
why do I smell a loser mactard here. I think u should just appreciate that Samsung has made a difference in the smartphone market and has become the Market leader. You are the guys who make others feel that its really a big deal.
pyre 15y ago
Well, Apple fans really did set the stage for these sort of comparisons with all the hand waving about how the iPhone would be the only smart phone in the future. And their continuous need to point out market share numbers in their Internet "my favorite company can beat up your favorite company" fights.
- jamesrom 15y ago
  Apple has never been on top in market share... I don't think any Apple fan would point to market share as an indicator of success.
  - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
    Never underestimate the power of double-think. I can't believe that Gruber (for example) would claim with a straight face "Money is how you keep score" after years of attacking Microsoft who massively won on both marketshare and profitshare on the desktop. (They've fallen slightly behind in profit the last year or so, but take any longer period and they murder Apple. By Gruber's own metric this means Apple's computers sucked, and in that case why should we be excited about their phone?)
    - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
      This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (who just posted a significant loss) which could very realistically harm it's relationships with other manufactures (including Samsung). Meanwhile Samsung - the best Android phone manufacturer right now - are also now signed up to provide Windows Phones and are investing in Bada. And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition. Plus Kindle and others are starting to fragment what Android means - are app developers going to be held back by having to keep things running on the far older Fire version if they want to access what is likely to be a massive market? Oh, and those pesky little patents suits aren't going anywhere in a hurry and are likely to be, at the very least, expensive. On the upside it now has a mass market advantage and a lot of people betting on it. Meanwhile Apple's previous unrivalled dominance in terms of product quality has significantly eroded (if not disappeared altogether) and it's iPod -> iPhone upgrade path is dropping away as the iPod ceases to be a big seller (though the Mac is now becoming mass market which at the very least boosts the Apple brand and awareness). The iPad is still the undisputed king of tablets but that's likely to at the very least come under more sustained pressure than it has so far as further iterations of Android tablets improve. Plus the potential for a post-Jobs psychological hit exists and, those patent suits aren't just running one way. And both of them are going to be threatened by Nokia and MS getting their shit together with a couple of nice looking phones, a billion dollar marketing budget and a shed load of brand recognition in the mass market space. Bottom line - I don't think anyone should carp right now, this thing is a long way from playing out.
      - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
        Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever makes Apple sound better).
  - angus77 15y ago
    Tablets?
ZeroGravitas 15y ago
"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about was slowly being eclipsed by Android. Fanboy rule number one is to make far too big a deal about anything unique about you or your enemy. Some people seem to have latched onto profit margins and run wild with it. This has gotten to the point where I'm half expecting, even here on HN, someone to come along and claim that Samsung "isn't making any money" from selling these phones.
- jamesrom 15y ago
  So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device? That sounds backwards to me.
  - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
    I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad). I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.
    - sjwright 15y ago
      > > > > They set out to make the most money > > > they set out to build the best device Surely it's equal parts of both: Apple try to make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) etc etc... In the sandpit where Apple plays, you can't have one without the other. A beautiful symbiosis of business and craft.
cageface 15y ago
However, if these trends continue in the longer term Apple could start to suffer from some of the same negative network effects that plagued them in the PC era. If their market share slips too far people will start perceiving them again as a niche, luxury brand too different from what their friends and family use.
shawndumas 15y ago
"When Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone to the world in 2007, he mentioned that Apple had set a goal for itself to reach one percent of the mobile phone market share." . --http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-percent-goal-for-2008-looking-good-for-2009.ars http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-pe...

by moomin 15y ago

Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.

the100rabh 15y ago

why do I smell a loser mactard here. I think u should just appreciate that Samsung has made a difference in the smartphone market and has become the Market leader. You are the guys who make others feel that its really a big deal.

pyre 15y ago

Well, Apple fans really did set the stage for these sort of comparisons with all the hand waving about how the iPhone would be the only smart phone in the future. And their continuous need to point out market share numbers in their Internet "my favorite company can beat up your favorite company" fights.

jamesrom 15y ago
Apple has never been on top in market share... I don't think any Apple fan would point to market share as an indicator of success.
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  Never underestimate the power of double-think. I can't believe that Gruber (for example) would claim with a straight face "Money is how you keep score" after years of attacking Microsoft who massively won on both marketshare and profitshare on the desktop. (They've fallen slightly behind in profit the last year or so, but take any longer period and they murder Apple. By Gruber's own metric this means Apple's computers sucked, and in that case why should we be excited about their phone?)
  - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
    This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (who just posted a significant loss) which could very realistically harm it's relationships with other manufactures (including Samsung). Meanwhile Samsung - the best Android phone manufacturer right now - are also now signed up to provide Windows Phones and are investing in Bada. And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition. Plus Kindle and others are starting to fragment what Android means - are app developers going to be held back by having to keep things running on the far older Fire version if they want to access what is likely to be a massive market? Oh, and those pesky little patents suits aren't going anywhere in a hurry and are likely to be, at the very least, expensive. On the upside it now has a mass market advantage and a lot of people betting on it. Meanwhile Apple's previous unrivalled dominance in terms of product quality has significantly eroded (if not disappeared altogether) and it's iPod -> iPhone upgrade path is dropping away as the iPod ceases to be a big seller (though the Mac is now becoming mass market which at the very least boosts the Apple brand and awareness). The iPad is still the undisputed king of tablets but that's likely to at the very least come under more sustained pressure than it has so far as further iterations of Android tablets improve. Plus the potential for a post-Jobs psychological hit exists and, those patent suits aren't just running one way. And both of them are going to be threatened by Nokia and MS getting their shit together with a couple of nice looking phones, a billion dollar marketing budget and a shed load of brand recognition in the mass market space. Bottom line - I don't think anyone should carp right now, this thing is a long way from playing out.
    - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
      Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever makes Apple sound better).
- angus77 15y ago
  Tablets?

ZeroGravitas 15y ago

"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about was slowly being eclipsed by Android. Fanboy rule number one is to make far too big a deal about anything unique about you or your enemy. Some people seem to have latched onto profit margins and run wild with it. This has gotten to the point where I'm half expecting, even here on HN, someone to come along and claim that Samsung "isn't making any money" from selling these phones.

jamesrom 15y ago
So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device? That sounds backwards to me.
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad). I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.
  - sjwright 15y ago
    > > > > They set out to make the most money > > > they set out to build the best device Surely it's equal parts of both: Apple try to make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) etc etc... In the sandpit where Apple plays, you can't have one without the other. A beautiful symbiosis of business and craft.

cageface 15y ago

However, if these trends continue in the longer term Apple could start to suffer from some of the same negative network effects that plagued them in the PC era. If their market share slips too far people will start perceiving them again as a niche, luxury brand too different from what their friends and family use.

shawndumas 15y ago

"When Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone to the world in 2007, he mentioned that Apple had set a goal for itself to reach one percent of the mobile phone market share." . --http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-percent-goal-for-2008-looking-good-for-2009.ars http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-pe...