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Humble question, I don't mean to sound confrontational, I ask of genuine curiosity: Why not contribute to VS Code instead? For Julia, Atom+Juno was excellent.

Humble question, I don't mean to sound confrontational, I ask of genuine curiosity: Why not contribute to VS Code instead? For Julia, Atom+Juno was excellent. It was the first time I could select+run on a proper IDE (I was coming from python+notebook). To me this was revolutionary. Then I discovered VS Code, so Atom+Juno stopped making sense. You seem to be a very competent developer, so why not just contribute to VS Code?

vlunkr 4y ago
Not the person you're responding to, but it sounds like they're going in a different direction with Zed in terms of the tech stack, where VSCode is pretty similar to Atom.
nathansobo 4y ago
Our goal is to build something substantially better than VS Code.
- gregmac 4y ago
  Can you be more specific about this, and what you're prioritizing? Eg: Speed? Different UI layout? Fundamentally different design/UX philosophy?
- GordonS 4y ago
  What would you say are planned to be the primary selling points over VSCode?
  - exyi 4y ago
    From the other parts of the thread: Performance, maybe better collaboration?
    - galaxyLogic 4y ago
      I think that's a worthy goal. I find it really bad that in this age of super-mega CPUs apps still feel not much faster than say 20 years ago. The reason I think is because like cities apps are built on top of other apps, like VSCode on top of Electron. Secondly when you re-create from scratch you can keep the best features and drop the ones we've learned are not so useful. Godspeed!
    - GordonS 4y ago
      Being honest, that doesn't sound too enticing. Despite VSCode being an Electron app, I've never had any performance issues with it - really, it's a great example of how Electron can be done right. On collaboration, I'm not sure what they might add that isn't already covered by GitHub/GitLab/AzDo etc. Again being honest, "collaboration" sounds like a weak Open Source pitch to VCs. I'd be interested in some details though, incase there is something truly novel here.
      - journey_16162 4y ago
        I do. I don't have a powerful laptop though. Whenever I open a new project I hear the cpu fan and cpu usage close to 100%, (TypeScript and ESlint are also a bit heavy and switching the app may not help with that). It's totally bearable though and as the years go by it will be less of an issue when everyone has a faster machine though. The biggest performance improvement would probably be RAM usage. You don't notice laptop specs get more RAM. The usual options are still 8GB or 16GB. Until 32GB / 64GB is the new default, having a non-electron app will always be an improvement. Personally I don't think it matters that much in the end, whether it is CPU usage or RAM, but if the editor was just as capable but faster, I'd switch. Code will never be rewritten from scratch and it will always be tied to Electron, starting a new text editor built with faster technologies could give a long-term edge the existing competitors would not be able to use.
- hit8run 4y ago
  Let them talk. You will do it no matter if they get it or not.
- mmcnl 4y ago
  What is your definition of better?
mynegation 4y ago
If nothing else, Atom was the birthplace of Electron.js and I know it is controversial, but Electron was a boon for the rapid development of cross-platform desktop applications. VS Code was built - in turn - on Electron. We need people like nathansobo to try out new ideas and directions. I, personally, am very much looking forward to their WebAssembly-based extension system and Zed being the flagship UI application developed in Rust.
- niutech 4y ago
  There is also NW.js (f.k.a. Node-Webkit), which was preceding Electron and was also a foundation for a lot of apps: https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js/wiki/List-of-apps-and-companies-using-nw.js https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js/wiki/List-of-apps-and-companie...
qbasic_forever 4y ago
I don't think VS code would ever accept a change to native UI or switch off of electron, so it seems like a nonstarter for someone who wants to experiment with native UI text editors. VS code is written almost 100% in JS and typescript, it will always be a nodejs app through and through without a complete rewrite. And even if they wanted to rearchitect VS code all of the extension APIs, extensions themselves, etc. would demand the existing nodejs runtime. So long story short... VS code is a good editor if you want to contribute to a nodejs and web tech based text editor, but not if you want to explore other architectures or ideas.
- cztomsik 4y ago
  you don't need node.js/V8 for plugins there is quickjs and some others, some of them are rust-based and all of them can run in wasm host EDIT: to be honest, I clearly see where you are going with this and I agree :)

vlunkr 4y ago

Not the person you're responding to, but it sounds like they're going in a different direction with Zed in terms of the tech stack, where VSCode is pretty similar to Atom.

nathansobo 4y ago

Our goal is to build something substantially better than VS Code.

gregmac 4y ago
Can you be more specific about this, and what you're prioritizing? Eg: Speed? Different UI layout? Fundamentally different design/UX philosophy?
GordonS 4y ago
What would you say are planned to be the primary selling points over VSCode?
- exyi 4y ago
  From the other parts of the thread: Performance, maybe better collaboration?
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    I think that's a worthy goal. I find it really bad that in this age of super-mega CPUs apps still feel not much faster than say 20 years ago. The reason I think is because like cities apps are built on top of other apps, like VSCode on top of Electron. Secondly when you re-create from scratch you can keep the best features and drop the ones we've learned are not so useful. Godspeed!
  - GordonS 4y ago
    Being honest, that doesn't sound too enticing. Despite VSCode being an Electron app, I've never had any performance issues with it - really, it's a great example of how Electron can be done right. On collaboration, I'm not sure what they might add that isn't already covered by GitHub/GitLab/AzDo etc. Again being honest, "collaboration" sounds like a weak Open Source pitch to VCs. I'd be interested in some details though, incase there is something truly novel here.
    - journey_16162 4y ago
      I do. I don't have a powerful laptop though. Whenever I open a new project I hear the cpu fan and cpu usage close to 100%, (TypeScript and ESlint are also a bit heavy and switching the app may not help with that). It's totally bearable though and as the years go by it will be less of an issue when everyone has a faster machine though. The biggest performance improvement would probably be RAM usage. You don't notice laptop specs get more RAM. The usual options are still 8GB or 16GB. Until 32GB / 64GB is the new default, having a non-electron app will always be an improvement. Personally I don't think it matters that much in the end, whether it is CPU usage or RAM, but if the editor was just as capable but faster, I'd switch. Code will never be rewritten from scratch and it will always be tied to Electron, starting a new text editor built with faster technologies could give a long-term edge the existing competitors would not be able to use.
hit8run 4y ago
Let them talk. You will do it no matter if they get it or not.
mmcnl 4y ago
What is your definition of better?

mynegation 4y ago

If nothing else, Atom was the birthplace of Electron.js and I know it is controversial, but Electron was a boon for the rapid development of cross-platform desktop applications. VS Code was built - in turn - on Electron. We need people like nathansobo to try out new ideas and directions. I, personally, am very much looking forward to their WebAssembly-based extension system and Zed being the flagship UI application developed in Rust.

niutech 4y ago
There is also NW.js (f.k.a. Node-Webkit), which was preceding Electron and was also a foundation for a lot of apps: https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js/wiki/List-of-apps-and-companies-using-nw.js https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js/wiki/List-of-apps-and-companie...

qbasic_forever 4y ago

I don't think VS code would ever accept a change to native UI or switch off of electron, so it seems like a nonstarter for someone who wants to experiment with native UI text editors. VS code is written almost 100% in JS and typescript, it will always be a nodejs app through and through without a complete rewrite. And even if they wanted to rearchitect VS code all of the extension APIs, extensions themselves, etc. would demand the existing nodejs runtime. So long story short... VS code is a good editor if you want to contribute to a nodejs and web tech based text editor, but not if you want to explore other architectures or ideas.

cztomsik 4y ago
you don't need node.js/V8 for plugins there is quickjs and some others, some of them are rust-based and all of them can run in wasm host EDIT: to be honest, I clearly see where you are going with this and I agree :)