5 ms·

> If code can "recognize" when something like this is being done and provide documentation on other ways, it can help people learn new methods. Now I'm imaging

by Arrath 4y ago

> If code can "recognize" when something like this is being done and provide documentation on other ways, it can help people learn new methods. Now I'm imaging Clippy popping up when you copy a ludicrous amount of data to the clipboard. "You appear to be using a cludgy method, may I suggest something better?" Of course, I'm guilty of things like this. I have one excel macro that splits data from a giant stream* (one monolithic CSV, actually) into discrete units, graphs them, and then sorts the graphs for printing. It makes a lot of use of the clipboard, and god help you if you try to copy/paste something while the macro is running. *Giant enough that at one point it grew to where I overran my Int and had to upgrade some of the code to Longs :V

ody4242 4y ago
There are some exotic scenarios, where copy-paste is the good(fast) solution. For example, one of my clients can be accessed via a VPN. Once I'm on the VPN, I have to start their VDI. Inside the VDI, I need to start another VPN, that then allows me to open a Putty session to a bastion host, that I can use to reach my destination cluster. Believe it or not, they don't want to make it simpler. Copy/paste works flawlessly through the VDI into the putty session, so I usually just uuencode my blob, and copy it to destination cluster and uudecode there, instead of uploading the file to the VDI, then pscp to the bastion host, and then scp to the destination cluster. (I know of zmodem, port forwarding and such, none of this is allowed...)
- ntoskrnl 4y ago
  That sounds horrific. I wonder if anyone has built a TCP tunnel that works over shared clipboard? :)
  - sandermvanvliet 4y ago
    Not sure but I’ve made something more ugly. Once upon a time at $workplace we had a production and development LAN and we had two PC’s sitting on our desks, one for prod and one for dev. Now there was a special SMB share to move stuff between the two networks but trying to copy something from one Pc to the other was tedious. So of course I wrote a magic clipboard utility that used a file on that SMB share as the clipboard “storage”. Running the utility on both PCs allowed me to use copy-paste between the two PCs…
    - funcDropShadow 4y ago
      I have once worked for a customer where other freelancer had developed a special proxy. The customer required working in a hermetically closed vpn environment even to access the test systems. Whitelisting a single web page cost an unreasonable amount of budget and took days to weeks. Therefore someone had decided to run the vpn inside a virtual machine, and developed an http proxy that consisted of two processes, one running inside the VM and one outside. Now, you gan guess how they exchanged requests and responses. That whole setup was surprisingly usable.
- johnwalkr 4y ago
  copy/paste really is a great tool. I bought a Windows gaming PC during the pandemic, and my other systems are Macs. I started to use barrier (a multi-platform software KVM-like keyboard and mouse sharing thing) and was pleasantly surprised to learn that it shares the clipboard across all of my PCs, and my Macs in turn also share the clipboard to my iphone. This works in both directions. It's convenient to the point that using multiple PCs with multiple operating systems is barely different than using one PC with 2 monitors. I travel a lot for work and this feature also lets me use my personal laptop as a slightly limited second screen for my work laptop. Total gamechanger for free.
prometheus76 4y ago
Have you looked into powerpivot in Excel? I learned how to use it, then eventually moved into using Power BI, and now that's what I do for a living. Powerpivot unlocks so much potential in Excel, and it allows you to have millions of rows of data and work with it seamlessly. It also allows you to create relationships between tables instead of using vlookups. If you haven't tried it, look at some introductory videos on youtube. It will blow your mind.
- Arrath 4y ago
  I haven't! If I need to revive this particular bit of shameful spaghetti code, I'll look into it, thanks!
EvanAnderson 4y ago
I always wanted Clippy to pop-up when excessive use of VLOOKUP is detected with a message: "It looks like you're trying to implement a relational database in a spreadsheet. May I suggest you get professional help?"
- bombcar 4y ago
  People complain a lot about MS Access, but a easy-to-use relational database is actually a very necessary tool. It's too bad that Microsoft hasn't figured out how to make it easy to make an access-like system in Excel itself.
  - EvanAnderson 4y ago
    For sure, re: Access and a relational database tool being important. If somebody ever manages to make a web-based Microsoft Access clone (that actually works) they'll make billions. It's fun help a "savvy" Excel user understand how a relational database can reduce their byzantine VLOOKUP-based fever dreams into simple joins. Typically if somebody can grok VLOOKUP-fueled nightmares they can grok SQL pretty quickly and will actually appreciate what it can do for them.
    - geoduck14 4y ago
      Snowflake
    - bombcar 4y ago
      >If somebody ever manages to make a web-based Microsoft Access clone (that actually works) they'll make billions. They did, they called it Salesforce.com
      - FastMonkey 4y ago
        I think Salesforce is fine for large companies with teams of sales reps and a well staffed IT department, but it's overkill for most small to medium sized companies with just a few sales reps. If you can run on a creaky set of excel sheets, access would have been a far better and much more flexible solution. With minimal training it could be set up and run by a competent excel user. Salesforce admin is a pain in the ass. There's mandatory updates 3 times a year that require low level software development expertise in order for the admin to understand what will break, building new functionality essentially requires tens of thousands of dollars of consultant development, and god help you if you want to run a report that involves objects that don't have a direct parent-child relationship. I'm an analyst, and because I know how a database works, Salesforce stuff gets dumped on my desk all the time. I actively seek out alternative systems for everything it does, and would dearly love to see us drop this eye-watering expense.
stormdennis 4y ago
My chief memory of clippy was that he was modal and that he couldn't answer the question 'make clippy go away', so I could actually do something.
dylan604 4y ago
>(one monolithic CSV, actually) might i introduce you to sed and awk?
- Arrath 4y ago
  If you can also convince work to issue me a non-Windows machine, sure! Honest question though, as I have no experience with utilities like that: Could those tools together manipulate e.g. the data on the left to the graphs on the right? https://i.imgur.com/DXhMlE5.png https://i.imgur.com/DXhMlE5.png
  - dylan604 4y ago
    if it is in any kind of easily formatted manner comma, tab, pipes, etc, then yes. depending on your windows, you might be able to take advantage of WSL or as a last resort run cygwin. maybe there are other methods of using awk/sed/grep type utilities as well, but I am not familiar. i still remember the day when someone watching me struggling with large text files and took pity on me by showing me the light of the holy power of awk/sed/grep. it was taking minutes to make each search/replace edits and I had several of them. it took mere seconds for the shell commands to process the same thing.
    - Arrath 4y ago
      Looks like I have some research to do, thank you!
      - dylan604 4y ago
        Just paying it forward! Standing on the shoulder of giants.

by Arrath 4y ago

ody4242 4y ago

There are some exotic scenarios, where copy-paste is the good(fast) solution. For example, one of my clients can be accessed via a VPN. Once I'm on the VPN, I have to start their VDI. Inside the VDI, I need to start another VPN, that then allows me to open a Putty session to a bastion host, that I can use to reach my destination cluster. Believe it or not, they don't want to make it simpler. Copy/paste works flawlessly through the VDI into the putty session, so I usually just uuencode my blob, and copy it to destination cluster and uudecode there, instead of uploading the file to the VDI, then pscp to the bastion host, and then scp to the destination cluster. (I know of zmodem, port forwarding and such, none of this is allowed...)

ntoskrnl 4y ago
That sounds horrific. I wonder if anyone has built a TCP tunnel that works over shared clipboard? :)
- sandermvanvliet 4y ago
  Not sure but I’ve made something more ugly. Once upon a time at $workplace we had a production and development LAN and we had two PC’s sitting on our desks, one for prod and one for dev. Now there was a special SMB share to move stuff between the two networks but trying to copy something from one Pc to the other was tedious. So of course I wrote a magic clipboard utility that used a file on that SMB share as the clipboard “storage”. Running the utility on both PCs allowed me to use copy-paste between the two PCs…
  - funcDropShadow 4y ago
    I have once worked for a customer where other freelancer had developed a special proxy. The customer required working in a hermetically closed vpn environment even to access the test systems. Whitelisting a single web page cost an unreasonable amount of budget and took days to weeks. Therefore someone had decided to run the vpn inside a virtual machine, and developed an http proxy that consisted of two processes, one running inside the VM and one outside. Now, you gan guess how they exchanged requests and responses. That whole setup was surprisingly usable.
johnwalkr 4y ago
copy/paste really is a great tool. I bought a Windows gaming PC during the pandemic, and my other systems are Macs. I started to use barrier (a multi-platform software KVM-like keyboard and mouse sharing thing) and was pleasantly surprised to learn that it shares the clipboard across all of my PCs, and my Macs in turn also share the clipboard to my iphone. This works in both directions. It's convenient to the point that using multiple PCs with multiple operating systems is barely different than using one PC with 2 monitors. I travel a lot for work and this feature also lets me use my personal laptop as a slightly limited second screen for my work laptop. Total gamechanger for free.

prometheus76 4y ago

Have you looked into powerpivot in Excel? I learned how to use it, then eventually moved into using Power BI, and now that's what I do for a living. Powerpivot unlocks so much potential in Excel, and it allows you to have millions of rows of data and work with it seamlessly. It also allows you to create relationships between tables instead of using vlookups. If you haven't tried it, look at some introductory videos on youtube. It will blow your mind.

Arrath 4y ago
I haven't! If I need to revive this particular bit of shameful spaghetti code, I'll look into it, thanks!

EvanAnderson 4y ago

I always wanted Clippy to pop-up when excessive use of VLOOKUP is detected with a message: "It looks like you're trying to implement a relational database in a spreadsheet. May I suggest you get professional help?"

bombcar 4y ago
People complain a lot about MS Access, but a easy-to-use relational database is actually a very necessary tool. It's too bad that Microsoft hasn't figured out how to make it easy to make an access-like system in Excel itself.
- EvanAnderson 4y ago
  For sure, re: Access and a relational database tool being important. If somebody ever manages to make a web-based Microsoft Access clone (that actually works) they'll make billions. It's fun help a "savvy" Excel user understand how a relational database can reduce their byzantine VLOOKUP-based fever dreams into simple joins. Typically if somebody can grok VLOOKUP-fueled nightmares they can grok SQL pretty quickly and will actually appreciate what it can do for them.
  - geoduck14 4y ago
    Snowflake
  - bombcar 4y ago
    >If somebody ever manages to make a web-based Microsoft Access clone (that actually works) they'll make billions. They did, they called it Salesforce.com
    - FastMonkey 4y ago
      I think Salesforce is fine for large companies with teams of sales reps and a well staffed IT department, but it's overkill for most small to medium sized companies with just a few sales reps. If you can run on a creaky set of excel sheets, access would have been a far better and much more flexible solution. With minimal training it could be set up and run by a competent excel user. Salesforce admin is a pain in the ass. There's mandatory updates 3 times a year that require low level software development expertise in order for the admin to understand what will break, building new functionality essentially requires tens of thousands of dollars of consultant development, and god help you if you want to run a report that involves objects that don't have a direct parent-child relationship. I'm an analyst, and because I know how a database works, Salesforce stuff gets dumped on my desk all the time. I actively seek out alternative systems for everything it does, and would dearly love to see us drop this eye-watering expense.

stormdennis 4y ago

My chief memory of clippy was that he was modal and that he couldn't answer the question 'make clippy go away', so I could actually do something.

dylan604 4y ago

>(one monolithic CSV, actually) might i introduce you to sed and awk?

Arrath 4y ago
If you can also convince work to issue me a non-Windows machine, sure! Honest question though, as I have no experience with utilities like that: Could those tools together manipulate e.g. the data on the left to the graphs on the right? https://i.imgur.com/DXhMlE5.png https://i.imgur.com/DXhMlE5.png
- dylan604 4y ago
  if it is in any kind of easily formatted manner comma, tab, pipes, etc, then yes. depending on your windows, you might be able to take advantage of WSL or as a last resort run cygwin. maybe there are other methods of using awk/sed/grep type utilities as well, but I am not familiar. i still remember the day when someone watching me struggling with large text files and took pity on me by showing me the light of the holy power of awk/sed/grep. it was taking minutes to make each search/replace edits and I had several of them. it took mere seconds for the shell commands to process the same thing.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    Looks like I have some research to do, thank you!
    - dylan604 4y ago
      Just paying it forward! Standing on the shoulder of giants.