10 ms·

For those unfamiliar with the site, MacOSForge is an official Apple site which hosts repositories for code included in OS X (see http://www.opensource.apple.com

by tiles 15y ago

For those unfamiliar with the site, MacOSForge is an official Apple site which hosts repositories for code included in OS X (see http://www.opensource.apple.com/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/ and the sidebar) The announcement with timestamp for today is on the homepage: http://www.macosforge.org/ http://www.macosforge.org/

kahawe 15y ago
I don't know why Apple has gotten THAT much flak for allegedly being totally closed and locking you down worse than Microsoft did back in the dark ages etc. Yes, they have certain core products which are their own and they don't open them up and the locking down of their iPhones, well, it could be a blessing and a curse. I will only say that from the perspective of a regular customer, the quality control done on apps is probably not such a bad thing but yes, for app developers it probably just sucks. And the music you buy online on iTunes now comes pretty much without any DRM in high quality AAC. But they are not ONLY "evil" because at the same time, Apple did contribute to open standards and there is a lot of Open Source available. It is, however, still a business so for me, it seems they are playing it smart and do "open" where it also benefits them and their customers and do "closed/locked down" where it is critical for their own success or in accordance with their product philosophy or the reality distortion field.
- jhuni 15y ago
  The problem is that Apple's business model is based upon selling artificially scarce content (music, applications, etc) over closed and restrictive platforms. A couple of open products isn't going to change their fundamental business model. The argument that "Apple is just a business" doesn't hold weight for me either because there are clearly superior business models out their like Google's which is based upon free software (linux) and intelligent cloud services (search).
  - kahawe 15y ago
    I still have quite a few other options to buy my music online or just buy music the old fashioned way; same goes for shows and movies. I do not see anything "scarce" here at all. And I can play music in pretty much all popular formats I got from elsewhere on iTunes and iPod just fine. And now the music from the iTunes store is not DRM locked-down anymore either. And you are comparing apples and oranges with Google here. Apple is selling hardware and now all sorts of media and software along with it. Google has a completely different business model. And what benefit do I as a customer directly gain from google using Linux as a foundation? As long as their servers work, I am pretty much unaffected by the platform. Apple is using BSD as a foundation in OS X, so? And there are open source components available. Does google give me the source code for their web search or gmail or ads or all their other core products? What makes google a "clearly superior business model"? Just because Linux is "cool"? Last time I checked, Apple is doing pretty well and has been consistently so over the last years so I doubt their business model needs to be replaced. I am glad Apple is getting more popular because finally there is some real actual competition in the consumer sector. And for each of their products, there are just as excellent alternatives available so I am not being forced or locked down on anything. I can take my contacts, pictures, videos and music with me, it is pretty much all available or exportable in(to) standardized formats.
    - jhuni 15y ago
      Does google give me the source code for their web search or gmail or ads or all their other core products? No, but Google also doesn't attempt to install their search service on your computer. I don't install proprietary software on any of my computers, because of security. If the software I install isn't open then it could do anything without out my knowledge, including restrict me through DRM. Just because Linux is "cool"? Linux is not "cool." To anyone who has used the Lisp machines, all modern operating systems look the basically the same. They are all crappy UNIX derivatives. The difference is Linux is open, which is necessary prerequisite for security, which is precisely why most foreign governments use it, they don't want to open up their vital computer systems to sabotage. Apple is selling hardware and now all sorts of media and software along with it. Google has a completely different business model. If Apple just sold physical hardware that would be fine. But that just isn't the case. The reality is that proprietary software is a fundamental part of Apple's business model, which is precisely why Google's business model is superior. The proprietary software that Apple sells not only is a security threat, the malicious features they have are well known: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple I still have quite a few other options to buy my music online or just buy music the old fashioned way; same goes for shows and movies. The Apple tyranny has a long history of suppressing iTune alternatives like PyMusique: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/22/content_2728356.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/22/content_2728356...
  - ralfd 15y ago
    No, look at the quarter results of Apple. Their revenue is selling hardware stuff. Digital content is relatively a small amount. I also find "artificially scarce" a very biased description. The App Store has an unbelievable positive impact on the developer ecosystem. And if books/gamecartridges/printed newspaper are replaced by digital stuff we shouldn't deride payment for that. Look at ebooks or Amazon kindle. These are good things. The scarce thing is really your favorite band making a kickass song, investigative journalism instead of astroturfing and GRRM writing the next ASOIAF novel in less than five years. About Googles "superior business model": Ultimately it is just advertising. The product which is sold is you. I don't want to sound polemic, I have tons of respect for Google. But this is a strong realization most never make. Because of that I avoid to being to dependent on their services (maybe I will move my email from gmail to icloud). EDIT: Oh, never mind. I just read your other reply to kawahe. You clearly are enlightened and are not bound by the chains of tyranny. I am out of this discussion.
    - Duff 15y ago
      I think of Apple as akin to a warehouse club like Costco or Sam's. These "clubs" sell a high margin membership, and you get to buy low-margin toilet paper 50 rolls at a time. Likewise, Apple sells digital media, which is a relatively low-margin business. But by doing so, they get you to buy high-margin hardware and services.
    - jhuni 15y ago
      The App Store has an unbelievable positive impact on the developer ecosystem. Paul Graham (the creator of this site) commented on the App Store himself, and his words were not entirely of ignorant praise like yours are: http://www.paulgraham.com/apple.html http://www.paulgraham.com/apple.html The scarce thing is really your favorite band making a kickass song, investigative journalism instead of astroturfing and GRRM writing the next ASOIAF novel in less than five years. Although this is besides the point, it is pretty easy to envision a moneyless post-scarcity society where such songs, novels, reports, and other forms of content are delivered to everyone free of charge: http://adciv.org/ http://adciv.org/
      - 15y ago
  - dereg 15y ago
    I'm tired of the term "artificial scarcity". First, do you understand what scarcity means? The supply of content is unlimited. Putting a price on content is not creating "scarcity". Consumers make content purchasing decisions based on the scarcity of their own resources. Second, what is non-artificial scarcity? All scarcity is artificial.
    - throwawayday 15y ago
      I think the term is being used to note that the price is artificially high - supply is virtually limitless once the first copy of the song is created, so the price should approach zero.
    - jhuni 15y ago
      What term would prefer? Corrupt pricing?

by tiles 15y ago

kahawe 15y ago

I don't know why Apple has gotten THAT much flak for allegedly being totally closed and locking you down worse than Microsoft did back in the dark ages etc. Yes, they have certain core products which are their own and they don't open them up and the locking down of their iPhones, well, it could be a blessing and a curse. I will only say that from the perspective of a regular customer, the quality control done on apps is probably not such a bad thing but yes, for app developers it probably just sucks. And the music you buy online on iTunes now comes pretty much without any DRM in high quality AAC. But they are not ONLY "evil" because at the same time, Apple did contribute to open standards and there is a lot of Open Source available. It is, however, still a business so for me, it seems they are playing it smart and do "open" where it also benefits them and their customers and do "closed/locked down" where it is critical for their own success or in accordance with their product philosophy or the reality distortion field.

jhuni 15y ago
The problem is that Apple's business model is based upon selling artificially scarce content (music, applications, etc) over closed and restrictive platforms. A couple of open products isn't going to change their fundamental business model. The argument that "Apple is just a business" doesn't hold weight for me either because there are clearly superior business models out their like Google's which is based upon free software (linux) and intelligent cloud services (search).
- kahawe 15y ago
  I still have quite a few other options to buy my music online or just buy music the old fashioned way; same goes for shows and movies. I do not see anything "scarce" here at all. And I can play music in pretty much all popular formats I got from elsewhere on iTunes and iPod just fine. And now the music from the iTunes store is not DRM locked-down anymore either. And you are comparing apples and oranges with Google here. Apple is selling hardware and now all sorts of media and software along with it. Google has a completely different business model. And what benefit do I as a customer directly gain from google using Linux as a foundation? As long as their servers work, I am pretty much unaffected by the platform. Apple is using BSD as a foundation in OS X, so? And there are open source components available. Does google give me the source code for their web search or gmail or ads or all their other core products? What makes google a "clearly superior business model"? Just because Linux is "cool"? Last time I checked, Apple is doing pretty well and has been consistently so over the last years so I doubt their business model needs to be replaced. I am glad Apple is getting more popular because finally there is some real actual competition in the consumer sector. And for each of their products, there are just as excellent alternatives available so I am not being forced or locked down on anything. I can take my contacts, pictures, videos and music with me, it is pretty much all available or exportable in(to) standardized formats.
  - jhuni 15y ago
    Does google give me the source code for their web search or gmail or ads or all their other core products? No, but Google also doesn't attempt to install their search service on your computer. I don't install proprietary software on any of my computers, because of security. If the software I install isn't open then it could do anything without out my knowledge, including restrict me through DRM. Just because Linux is "cool"? Linux is not "cool." To anyone who has used the Lisp machines, all modern operating systems look the basically the same. They are all crappy UNIX derivatives. The difference is Linux is open, which is necessary prerequisite for security, which is precisely why most foreign governments use it, they don't want to open up their vital computer systems to sabotage. Apple is selling hardware and now all sorts of media and software along with it. Google has a completely different business model. If Apple just sold physical hardware that would be fine. But that just isn't the case. The reality is that proprietary software is a fundamental part of Apple's business model, which is precisely why Google's business model is superior. The proprietary software that Apple sells not only is a security threat, the malicious features they have are well known: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple I still have quite a few other options to buy my music online or just buy music the old fashioned way; same goes for shows and movies. The Apple tyranny has a long history of suppressing iTune alternatives like PyMusique: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/22/content_2728356.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/22/content_2728356...
- ralfd 15y ago
  No, look at the quarter results of Apple. Their revenue is selling hardware stuff. Digital content is relatively a small amount. I also find "artificially scarce" a very biased description. The App Store has an unbelievable positive impact on the developer ecosystem. And if books/gamecartridges/printed newspaper are replaced by digital stuff we shouldn't deride payment for that. Look at ebooks or Amazon kindle. These are good things. The scarce thing is really your favorite band making a kickass song, investigative journalism instead of astroturfing and GRRM writing the next ASOIAF novel in less than five years. About Googles "superior business model": Ultimately it is just advertising. The product which is sold is you. I don't want to sound polemic, I have tons of respect for Google. But this is a strong realization most never make. Because of that I avoid to being to dependent on their services (maybe I will move my email from gmail to icloud). EDIT: Oh, never mind. I just read your other reply to kawahe. You clearly are enlightened and are not bound by the chains of tyranny. I am out of this discussion.
  - Duff 15y ago
    I think of Apple as akin to a warehouse club like Costco or Sam's. These "clubs" sell a high margin membership, and you get to buy low-margin toilet paper 50 rolls at a time. Likewise, Apple sells digital media, which is a relatively low-margin business. But by doing so, they get you to buy high-margin hardware and services.
  - jhuni 15y ago
    The App Store has an unbelievable positive impact on the developer ecosystem. Paul Graham (the creator of this site) commented on the App Store himself, and his words were not entirely of ignorant praise like yours are: http://www.paulgraham.com/apple.html http://www.paulgraham.com/apple.html The scarce thing is really your favorite band making a kickass song, investigative journalism instead of astroturfing and GRRM writing the next ASOIAF novel in less than five years. Although this is besides the point, it is pretty easy to envision a moneyless post-scarcity society where such songs, novels, reports, and other forms of content are delivered to everyone free of charge: http://adciv.org/ http://adciv.org/
    - 15y ago
- dereg 15y ago
  I'm tired of the term "artificial scarcity". First, do you understand what scarcity means? The supply of content is unlimited. Putting a price on content is not creating "scarcity". Consumers make content purchasing decisions based on the scarcity of their own resources. Second, what is non-artificial scarcity? All scarcity is artificial.
  - throwawayday 15y ago
    I think the term is being used to note that the price is artificially high - supply is virtually limitless once the first copy of the song is created, so the price should approach zero.
  - jhuni 15y ago
    What term would prefer? Corrupt pricing?