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Correct, but ASML is not a chip fab
by joker99 4y ago
Correct, but ASML is not a chip fab
- amelius 4y agoI think the point was that high-tech shouldn't be concentrated in one location. What if ASML was in China?
- rmah 4y agoWell, as far as I can tell, China is seems willing to sell just about anything to anyone as long as they can pay.
- himlion 4y agoASML is prohibited from shipping its newest machines to China by the Dutch government, because of heavy US pressure. I'm sure China would love ASML to be fully based there.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoNo but it is the monopoly supplier of the single most important device for fabs. If ASML (and all their knowledge) disappeared off the face of the earth today progress in semiconductors would probably be set back a decade or two. The fact they are a single company in one country that the global industry depends on for progress in semis should be of concern.
- eternauta3k 4y agoWhat company has the next-best litho machines after ASML?
- voxic11 4y ago> As of 2022, ASML Holding is the only company who produces and sells EUV systems for chip production
- gpvos 4y agoOkay, so still: what is the company making the next-best chip making machines, using the next-best technology after EUV?
- AlotOfReading 4y agoNikon and Canon, in that order. Neither has managed to produce EUV machines, but they were somewhat competitive at higher nodes.
- phkahler 4y agoThat's really interesting, I had not heard those names in this space before. I would have expected Applied Materials. Maybe Nikon and Canon are suppliers of optics to the more industry specific companies?
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoI think historically it's been a challenge mostly related to precision optics, given that semi production is more or less like exposing photographic paper from a negative, through a lens using a light source. With EUV the challenge is the crazy difficulty of generating the required light source at the right intensity and focusing it. At that wavelength things behave differently, to say the least.
- AlotOfReading 4y agoNikon actually supplied the machines for Intel through their 10nm debacle. Canon has completely retired into the low end market, but used to be massive. You're right that I forgot about Applied Materials.
- LeanderK 4y agowhat if there are none that are really comparable? I don't think we can go back to those huge transistors
- Sakos 4y agoThere is no alternative. Without EUV machines (produced solely by ASML), anything below 10nm is infeasible until we find a different way that works at scale.
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- erikpukinskis 4y agoWould it be? Or would it be one step back for a few years and then two steps forward by the 10 year mark due to renewed competition?
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoIt took decades for ASML to successfully develop EUV lithography. It was widely thought to be impractical prior to that. No one else was willing to even try.
- dathinab 4y agoBut it doesn't only have factories in the Netherlands and is as much controlled by a single "entity" as Intel is (e.g. the US doesn't control Intel). Most relevant as far as I can tell this situation was intentionally created that way to be able to better keep China off the high end chip market.
- qweqwerwerwerwr 4y ago
- Slartie 4y agoASML is not a leaf in the dependency tree of the global semiconductor fab supply chain. It does in turn rely on several other highly specialized partners to supply them with custom-developed components for lithography machines, well-known ones are for example Zeiss and Trumpf (both based in Germany). These partners probably duplicate a significant amount of knowledge necessary to build EUV machines, considering that their components were developed in tight partnership with ASML.
- iancmceachern 4y agoThere are tons of these. Intel FLIR DeBeers Westinghouse for nuclear stuff Lots of specialty suppliers for aerospace where there is only one or two companies that do a particular thing. Its actually super common.