38 ms·

(No offense) We're paying in-experienced new to industry engineers way too much money. Thanks for sharing.

intunderflow 4y ago
I'm not sure how much can be gleaned about my competency and experience from just YoE (I jokingly refer to it as "bum in seat time" sometimes) In any case though, that comp seems pretty typical nowadays, folks I know at Apple are on 250k and that's considered normal.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  > folks I know at Apple are on 250k and that's considered normal As in UK based Apple employees? 5 years back you would only get to that level as a massively prolific contractor. Maybe I should move back to the UK! :)
  - intunderflow 4y ago
    Yeah, high Senior / low Staff at Apple nets you 250k based on folks I know
- _trackno5 4y ago
  Sure 250k is normal, but at a senior level. 2 YoE would never get someone 190k salary (in the UK).That's just nuts. If you told me 190k for a senior role I'd totally buy that.
  - catchmilk 4y ago
    OP didn't specify whether that includes bonus or not. Regardless, for 2 YoE, this has to be a huge outlier. I'm inclined to think that this more an exception to the rule - I have a bunch of friends working in London finance tech, none of them making even close to that figure.
- rbanffy 4y ago
  > folks I know at Apple are on 250k The pressure on them is quite high. I'm not sure I'd like to work for Apple. If I got offered a job, I'd add smooth scrolling and SGR 53 support to Terminal.app and quit immediately after it's released. Maybe fix text colors beyond what xterm256 offers.
  - iofiiiiiiiii 4y ago
    Those 3-5 years at Apple could be lucrative for you. Go for it!
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      No pressure is non-negotiable. I work fine under pressure, but I hate it and will burnout.
- pjc50 4y ago
  2 YoE in what, specifically? I have _20_ years across a whole bunch of software and hardware areas, and would love to know how to get that kind of number. I see Citi do not post salaries on their job adverts, so we can't comparison shop.
  - intunderflow 4y ago
    Mostly Go / Kubernetes and some Architecture stuff as well. Main focus has been Security, then Infrastructure. If you want to check what I've written for my experience my LinkedIn has it: https://www.linkedin.com/in/intunderflow https://www.linkedin.com/in/intunderflow
    - pjc50 4y ago
      Interesting. How should I parse "Assistant VP (Internship)" - that sounds like you were an assistant VP and an intern at the same time? Or was that "with responsibility for interns"?
      - intunderflow 4y ago
        Title didn't mean much at all. Officially I was an Assistant VP on a fixed term contract instead of an Intern, but this was over the traditional internship months and between University years. Main differences were: - There was no interview, I spoke to a Director for 15 minutes who happened to be visiting a professor I knew at University (sheer luck/fluke). - Building a team of full time employees as an intern is pretty unusual. That team went on after my internship. - Really open-ended (I was just dropped into the Data Science team and told "do something useful").
jstx1 4y ago
If you ask me, no employee has ever been paid too much money for anything ever. It's a job, making money is the whole point, the more the better. No such thing as too much for any level of seniority/responsibilities/skill.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  If you pay people more than they produce (across the board), the company fails. That qualifies as too much to me. If you pay people far above their value add, most would consider that unfair, and vice versa for being underpaid. I don't think we should consider people being underpaid or overpaid as being just in a moral sense. Obviously everybody would prefer to be overpaid for themselves. Of course high comp in tech is more a function of supply/demand of labor, and the industry still being new. It won't be this way in 20-30 years, as people continue to trickle in and correct the supply imbalance
  - jstx1 4y ago
    Company performance is so separated from employee input, and value add is so difficult to measure for most positions that I don't trust this model as a useful guide. It's like an oversimplified model from an outdated econ textbook that has nothing to do with how things work in the real world.
    - adam_arthur 4y ago
      Company performance is exactly defined by employee input from the start. Later on people can coast on input from past employees, sure. But the company in the end is a result of the aggregation of all current and past employee input
      - WJW 4y ago
        Citibank is well into the "Later on" part then. They have 200k employees and are in a heavily regulated industry, it's not some startup where you can make a meaningful difference with a cool MVP that you developed over the weekend.
jbjbjbjb 4y ago
I think OP meant 2 years experience at that senior level based on other comments.
- intunderflow 4y ago
  2 years total at time of offer, I'm just coming up on 3 now (a few months away)

I'm not sure how much can be gleaned about my competency and experience from just YoE (I jokingly refer to it as "bum in seat time" sometimes) In any case though, that comp seems pretty typical nowadays, folks I know at Apple are on 250k and that's considered normal.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago
> folks I know at Apple are on 250k and that's considered normal As in UK based Apple employees? 5 years back you would only get to that level as a massively prolific contractor. Maybe I should move back to the UK! :)
- intunderflow 4y ago
  Yeah, high Senior / low Staff at Apple nets you 250k based on folks I know
_trackno5 4y ago
Sure 250k is normal, but at a senior level. 2 YoE would never get someone 190k salary (in the UK).That's just nuts. If you told me 190k for a senior role I'd totally buy that.
- catchmilk 4y ago
  OP didn't specify whether that includes bonus or not. Regardless, for 2 YoE, this has to be a huge outlier. I'm inclined to think that this more an exception to the rule - I have a bunch of friends working in London finance tech, none of them making even close to that figure.
rbanffy 4y ago
> folks I know at Apple are on 250k The pressure on them is quite high. I'm not sure I'd like to work for Apple. If I got offered a job, I'd add smooth scrolling and SGR 53 support to Terminal.app and quit immediately after it's released. Maybe fix text colors beyond what xterm256 offers.
- iofiiiiiiiii 4y ago
  Those 3-5 years at Apple could be lucrative for you. Go for it!
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    No pressure is non-negotiable. I work fine under pressure, but I hate it and will burnout.
pjc50 4y ago
2 YoE in what, specifically? I have _20_ years across a whole bunch of software and hardware areas, and would love to know how to get that kind of number. I see Citi do not post salaries on their job adverts, so we can't comparison shop.
- intunderflow 4y ago
  Mostly Go / Kubernetes and some Architecture stuff as well. Main focus has been Security, then Infrastructure. If you want to check what I've written for my experience my LinkedIn has it: https://www.linkedin.com/in/intunderflow https://www.linkedin.com/in/intunderflow
  - pjc50 4y ago
    Interesting. How should I parse "Assistant VP (Internship)" - that sounds like you were an assistant VP and an intern at the same time? Or was that "with responsibility for interns"?
    - intunderflow 4y ago
      Title didn't mean much at all. Officially I was an Assistant VP on a fixed term contract instead of an Intern, but this was over the traditional internship months and between University years. Main differences were: - There was no interview, I spoke to a Director for 15 minutes who happened to be visiting a professor I knew at University (sheer luck/fluke). - Building a team of full time employees as an intern is pretty unusual. That team went on after my internship. - Really open-ended (I was just dropped into the Data Science team and told "do something useful").

jstx1 4y ago

If you ask me, no employee has ever been paid too much money for anything ever. It's a job, making money is the whole point, the more the better. No such thing as too much for any level of seniority/responsibilities/skill.

adam_arthur 4y ago
If you pay people more than they produce (across the board), the company fails. That qualifies as too much to me. If you pay people far above their value add, most would consider that unfair, and vice versa for being underpaid. I don't think we should consider people being underpaid or overpaid as being just in a moral sense. Obviously everybody would prefer to be overpaid for themselves. Of course high comp in tech is more a function of supply/demand of labor, and the industry still being new. It won't be this way in 20-30 years, as people continue to trickle in and correct the supply imbalance
- jstx1 4y ago
  Company performance is so separated from employee input, and value add is so difficult to measure for most positions that I don't trust this model as a useful guide. It's like an oversimplified model from an outdated econ textbook that has nothing to do with how things work in the real world.
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    Company performance is exactly defined by employee input from the start. Later on people can coast on input from past employees, sure. But the company in the end is a result of the aggregation of all current and past employee input
    - WJW 4y ago
      Citibank is well into the "Later on" part then. They have 200k employees and are in a heavily regulated industry, it's not some startup where you can make a meaningful difference with a cool MVP that you developed over the weekend.

jbjbjbjb 4y ago

I think OP meant 2 years experience at that senior level based on other comments.

intunderflow 4y ago
2 years total at time of offer, I'm just coming up on 3 now (a few months away)