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They're even reliable in the way they break down. Parts are cheap worldwide, every mechanic ever can work with them, and the service life of components seems to

They're even reliable in the way they break down. Parts are cheap worldwide, every mechanic ever can work with them, and the service life of components seems to be staggered such that you only get a couple of issues a year even on a 20 year old model like mine. If you think all is lost at 500,000km, just buy a new engine for like $1000 and sail away in your little Ship of Theseus that refuses to die. The purchase price is so low and the maintenance so consistent it's like you're renting it. If you are struggling to build your self-worth through a car or think you need to spend $50k to get that, try fixing an old Camry yourself for dirt cheap, and then see how you feel. No need to fight for right-to-repair laws either, just buy a part anywhere and clean or replace it according to the manual, which is just a 1000 page PDF on the internet of every possible repair. (Although my next car will be electric, because of climate change. Sorry Camry.)

CameronNemo 4y ago
I really hope an electric car model will take up the mantle for reliability and repair ability. Toyota is lagging hard in the EV space. Maybe those Chevy Bolts will last a while? Or the Kia EVs? Probably the F150s, but I'd prefer a compact.
- cormacrelf 4y ago
  I have more hope for EV repairability than for e.g. iPhones. Notice that right-to-repair laws followed tractor owners, not iPhone owners. The farmers felt the pain first. It's simply more important for a vehicle, where replacing is not nearly as cheap. You can already buy random EV parts online. As automakers make more models and source more common parts for their cars to do this competitively, this aftermarket gets better and more useful. A fairly promising thing is the apparent popularity of EV conversions and home-brew EVs, so perhaps there will be some competition for e.g supplying full-on computer control systems with some serious capabilities. There are also more modifications people will conceivably want to do on their cars. I know someone whose petrol ute has a fridge under the canopy, powered by a solar panel on the roof and an extra battery. Nobody is out there drilling a hole in their iPhone to add a headphone jack, because it would be really bad, but you can do all sorts to cars without ruining the whole experience. The complexity and variability of what people want their cars to do leads to modifications and that demand will have to be met somehow. It's also the kind of strange demand that cannot be met by the big automakers alone. As for reliability, I hope the market will continue to speak pretty loudly with their wallets on the importance of that. People care about it now, I have no reason to believe they'll stop.
  - lovemenot 4y ago
    I hope to see the next Mad Max movie as a visceral depiction of a wind, solar, geothermal, BEV, desalination tribe defeating the carbon tribe. In replay of the recent election in Aus.
- jstream67 4y ago
  That would probably be Tesla? I suppose it depends on your definition of repair-ability. Telsa has a high degree of parts compatibility and seems able to keep even the older 2012 era Model S repaired. There are a lot of high mileage Teslas out there. Most of Tesla's negative reputation seems to be people complaining about fit and finish (paint, panel gaps). The actual mechanical reliability seems to be quite higher than a normal ICE car. However EVs are still pretty new so long term data is still being collected.
  - nradov 4y ago
    No, the data shows that Tesla vehicles generally have terrible reliability. A Toyota Prius hybrid is far more mechanically complex than any Tesla EV, yet the Prius is far more reliable on average. http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability But Tesla still sells well for other reasons, so apparently they don't have to care about product quality.
    - jstream67 4y ago
      I'm having a hard time navigating that site and getting any data out of it. Is it considered a reliable source of information? It seems to only have data for the first generation Model 3 from 2018. They also seems to count stuff like replacement of the 12v battery. The writeups of high mileage Tesla's that I have read have not mentioned very many repairs - and that seems to be the general consensus on the owner's forums. Note that software updates are also considered 'recalls' on Teslas now. one data point on a high mileage model 3 : https://electrek.co/2020/09/26/tesla-model-3-high-mileage-extreme-low-cost-minimal-battery-degradation/ https://electrek.co/2020/09/26/tesla-model-3-high-mileage-ex...
      - nradov 4y ago
        Consumer Reports has more recent data. Tesla is next to last. The potential for EV reliability is there, but Tesla has missed it with incompetent engineering and sloppy assembly. https://www.statista.com/chart/23586/average-reliability-scores-for-new-cars/ https://www.statista.com/chart/23586/average-reliability-sco...

CameronNemo 4y ago

I really hope an electric car model will take up the mantle for reliability and repair ability. Toyota is lagging hard in the EV space. Maybe those Chevy Bolts will last a while? Or the Kia EVs? Probably the F150s, but I'd prefer a compact.

cormacrelf 4y ago
I have more hope for EV repairability than for e.g. iPhones. Notice that right-to-repair laws followed tractor owners, not iPhone owners. The farmers felt the pain first. It's simply more important for a vehicle, where replacing is not nearly as cheap. You can already buy random EV parts online. As automakers make more models and source more common parts for their cars to do this competitively, this aftermarket gets better and more useful. A fairly promising thing is the apparent popularity of EV conversions and home-brew EVs, so perhaps there will be some competition for e.g supplying full-on computer control systems with some serious capabilities. There are also more modifications people will conceivably want to do on their cars. I know someone whose petrol ute has a fridge under the canopy, powered by a solar panel on the roof and an extra battery. Nobody is out there drilling a hole in their iPhone to add a headphone jack, because it would be really bad, but you can do all sorts to cars without ruining the whole experience. The complexity and variability of what people want their cars to do leads to modifications and that demand will have to be met somehow. It's also the kind of strange demand that cannot be met by the big automakers alone. As for reliability, I hope the market will continue to speak pretty loudly with their wallets on the importance of that. People care about it now, I have no reason to believe they'll stop.
- lovemenot 4y ago
  I hope to see the next Mad Max movie as a visceral depiction of a wind, solar, geothermal, BEV, desalination tribe defeating the carbon tribe. In replay of the recent election in Aus.
jstream67 4y ago
That would probably be Tesla? I suppose it depends on your definition of repair-ability. Telsa has a high degree of parts compatibility and seems able to keep even the older 2012 era Model S repaired. There are a lot of high mileage Teslas out there. Most of Tesla's negative reputation seems to be people complaining about fit and finish (paint, panel gaps). The actual mechanical reliability seems to be quite higher than a normal ICE car. However EVs are still pretty new so long term data is still being collected.
- nradov 4y ago
  No, the data shows that Tesla vehicles generally have terrible reliability. A Toyota Prius hybrid is far more mechanically complex than any Tesla EV, yet the Prius is far more reliable on average. http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability But Tesla still sells well for other reasons, so apparently they don't have to care about product quality.
  - jstream67 4y ago
    I'm having a hard time navigating that site and getting any data out of it. Is it considered a reliable source of information? It seems to only have data for the first generation Model 3 from 2018. They also seems to count stuff like replacement of the 12v battery. The writeups of high mileage Tesla's that I have read have not mentioned very many repairs - and that seems to be the general consensus on the owner's forums. Note that software updates are also considered 'recalls' on Teslas now. one data point on a high mileage model 3 : https://electrek.co/2020/09/26/tesla-model-3-high-mileage-extreme-low-cost-minimal-battery-degradation/ https://electrek.co/2020/09/26/tesla-model-3-high-mileage-ex...
    - nradov 4y ago
      Consumer Reports has more recent data. Tesla is next to last. The potential for EV reliability is there, but Tesla has missed it with incompetent engineering and sloppy assembly. https://www.statista.com/chart/23586/average-reliability-scores-for-new-cars/ https://www.statista.com/chart/23586/average-reliability-sco...