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As a means of stopping a mass shooter, this seems like a promising avenue. We need more ways of incapacitating a dangerous individual without resorting to kill

As a means of stopping a mass shooter, this seems like a promising avenue. We need more ways of incapacitating a dangerous individual without resorting to killing them.

ews 4y ago
Like uhmmm... making gun ownership difficult or basically illegal like the rest of the civilized world?
- asah 4y ago
  let's not get crazy here. Guns don't kill people. If we banned them, they'd still stone each other. /s
- burrows 4y ago
  Does the word “civilized” have any content here? Or are you just saying, “guns are illegal in countries where guns are illegal.”
  - yeetawayhn 4y ago
    No, "civilized" here is supposed to allow the speaker to ignore all of the countries where gun control doesn't help. Do not pay any attention to the racism of calling those countries "uncivilized".
- salawat 4y ago
  If they are so civilized, why do they have to threaten the populace at gunpoint to disarm? Civility is having the means to end someone else's life, and not using it. I assure you, there is nothing more inherently civil about a government that refuses it's citizenry the right to arms.
- usrn 4y ago
darkwizard42 4y ago
Wouldn't investing in better mental health care, more reasonable ways to track and hold individuals liable for gun ownership, and general investment in a social safety net be better here? Why would we look at a sword and consider it a shield?
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Taser drones make the right people more money.
- qgin 4y ago
  I think those are all good things, but most countries that have negligible mass shooting events don’t have better mental healthcare or particularly great gun ownership databases. Something fundamental has happened to American culture and it’s not clear what solves that.
  - glaucon 4y ago
    > but most countries that have negligible mass shooting events don’t have better mental healthcare or particularly great gun ownership databases I don't know what countries you're referring to "that have negligible mass shooting events" but I guess within the developed world "most countries" here is "every country other than the USA" ? I mean I'm open to other suggestions but, sadly and tragically, it seems to me the USA is out in front to a significant degree. Saying that those other countries "don't have better mental healthcare" might be technically correct (or it may not I don't know for sure) but what does it mean when large swathes of the population in the USA can't access it anyway ? How many of those who perpetrate mass killings in the USA are actively being cared for ? I don't know how to comment on the gun database thing. These other countries have gun databases but the key thing is you just can't buy a gun unless you have a very good reason to own one. When you can buy a gun it's not an automatic weapon. I mean I can't think of a developed world country, other than the USA, where it's possible to buy or own such a weapon legally. So regardless of the quality of such databases, and I'm not saying they're better or worse, the main thing is that there's just not many entries in such databases. > Something fundamental has happened to American culture and it’s not clear what solves that. I agree and I'm deeply sorry for it being the case. I read an article recently I now can't find which discussed the Las Vegas[1] killer and attempted to put him in set of men of a certain age who have economically "failed" (I don't like that term) and how that was viewed by US society in a less forgiving way than in other countries and how it also led to lack of treatment for depression etc. I thought that was interesting but as I can't find the article it doesn't take us far. If anyone recognises it I'd be interested to know. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
GordonS 4y ago
Like... proper gun legislation?
- endisneigh 4y ago
  How exactly would gun legislation stop an active shooter? I agree it could prevent it from happening to begin with.
  - consumer451 4y ago
    Macro vs micro.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      No amount of legislation can stop an active shooter already in your school, shooting people up is already breaking several laws.
      - consumer451 4y ago
        Sadly at this point, the micro problem is the day’s school shooting. The macro problem is decades of 2nd amendment “purism.” No other country has this problem to the extent that the USA has. Also, no other country has such lax gun laws. At least no country of which I’m aware. In regard to this matter, I honestly don’t see what the political paths going forward could be for the USA.
      - giaour 4y ago
        This seems really pedantic, like saying that shark repellant won't help you when the shark already has you in its jaws. You've clearly reached a point where the shark repellant would have helped had it been used. It's much easier both practically and legislatively to prevent a mass shooting than it is to intervene in and halt one.
        salawat 4y ago
        ...Which is a stealth way of trying to skirt around that whole Second Amendment sticking point.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
roamerz 4y ago
Really? Would you like to see the Uvalde killer still alive so he could face justice?
- arthurcolle 4y ago
  Yeah definitely. Rule of law is important

As a means of stopping a mass shooter, this seems like a promising avenue. We need more ways of incapacitating a dangerous individual without resorting to killing them.

ews 4y ago

Like uhmmm... making gun ownership difficult or basically illegal like the rest of the civilized world?

asah 4y ago
let's not get crazy here. Guns don't kill people. If we banned them, they'd still stone each other. /s
burrows 4y ago
Does the word “civilized” have any content here? Or are you just saying, “guns are illegal in countries where guns are illegal.”
- yeetawayhn 4y ago
  No, "civilized" here is supposed to allow the speaker to ignore all of the countries where gun control doesn't help. Do not pay any attention to the racism of calling those countries "uncivilized".
salawat 4y ago
If they are so civilized, why do they have to threaten the populace at gunpoint to disarm? Civility is having the means to end someone else's life, and not using it. I assure you, there is nothing more inherently civil about a government that refuses it's citizenry the right to arms.
usrn 4y ago

darkwizard42 4y ago

Wouldn't investing in better mental health care, more reasonable ways to track and hold individuals liable for gun ownership, and general investment in a social safety net be better here? Why would we look at a sword and consider it a shield?

kelseyfrog 4y ago
Taser drones make the right people more money.
qgin 4y ago
I think those are all good things, but most countries that have negligible mass shooting events don’t have better mental healthcare or particularly great gun ownership databases. Something fundamental has happened to American culture and it’s not clear what solves that.
- glaucon 4y ago
  > but most countries that have negligible mass shooting events don’t have better mental healthcare or particularly great gun ownership databases I don't know what countries you're referring to "that have negligible mass shooting events" but I guess within the developed world "most countries" here is "every country other than the USA" ? I mean I'm open to other suggestions but, sadly and tragically, it seems to me the USA is out in front to a significant degree. Saying that those other countries "don't have better mental healthcare" might be technically correct (or it may not I don't know for sure) but what does it mean when large swathes of the population in the USA can't access it anyway ? How many of those who perpetrate mass killings in the USA are actively being cared for ? I don't know how to comment on the gun database thing. These other countries have gun databases but the key thing is you just can't buy a gun unless you have a very good reason to own one. When you can buy a gun it's not an automatic weapon. I mean I can't think of a developed world country, other than the USA, where it's possible to buy or own such a weapon legally. So regardless of the quality of such databases, and I'm not saying they're better or worse, the main thing is that there's just not many entries in such databases. > Something fundamental has happened to American culture and it’s not clear what solves that. I agree and I'm deeply sorry for it being the case. I read an article recently I now can't find which discussed the Las Vegas[1] killer and attempted to put him in set of men of a certain age who have economically "failed" (I don't like that term) and how that was viewed by US society in a less forgiving way than in other countries and how it also led to lack of treatment for depression etc. I thought that was interesting but as I can't find the article it doesn't take us far. If anyone recognises it I'd be interested to know. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

GordonS 4y ago

Like... proper gun legislation?

endisneigh 4y ago
How exactly would gun legislation stop an active shooter? I agree it could prevent it from happening to begin with.
- consumer451 4y ago
  Macro vs micro.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    No amount of legislation can stop an active shooter already in your school, shooting people up is already breaking several laws.
    - consumer451 4y ago
      Sadly at this point, the micro problem is the day’s school shooting. The macro problem is decades of 2nd amendment “purism.” No other country has this problem to the extent that the USA has. Also, no other country has such lax gun laws. At least no country of which I’m aware. In regard to this matter, I honestly don’t see what the political paths going forward could be for the USA.
    - giaour 4y ago
      This seems really pedantic, like saying that shark repellant won't help you when the shark already has you in its jaws. You've clearly reached a point where the shark repellant would have helped had it been used. It's much easier both practically and legislatively to prevent a mass shooting than it is to intervene in and halt one.
      - salawat 4y ago
        ...Which is a stealth way of trying to skirt around that whole Second Amendment sticking point.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

roamerz 4y ago

Really? Would you like to see the Uvalde killer still alive so he could face justice?

arthurcolle 4y ago
Yeah definitely. Rule of law is important