6 ms·

Apple’s CarPlay is going beyond the infotainment screen

32 points by emdashcomma 4y ago

warning26 4y ago
This looks amazing, but also likely to be ignored/ruined by vehicle manufactures who want to push their own UI.
- tailspin2019 4y ago
  I noted BMW weren't in the initial list of supported manufacturers. They're probably working on their new monthly subscription plans for "activating" this feature...
  - throw457 4y ago
    BMW made a 180 with their infotainment system in the new BMW iX the old one in the i-series was at least usable.
- joezydeco 4y ago
  Honestly it makes no sense to show it as a full-dash replacement. That means the car has to ship with an iOS device or the owner is required to always have one plugged in? I see this more as "here's some early Apple Car UI that you all can play with and tell us what works and what doesn't, and maybe one of you developers in the audience will make something interesting we can eventually steal". The concept images are compelling but you won't see this in any new car any time soon.
  - ricardobeat 4y ago
    Just like current CarPlay, the car has its own UI that can run standalone, it just gets replaced by the iOS one when active.
    - joezydeco 4y ago
      So let me see if I understand the economics here. I'm an automaker and I want a fancy UI on my dash (like Tesla or EQS). So I put in the big screen and then add the Apple extensions to allow CarPlay 2. But what do I ship with the car? A cheap and quick UI with basic features, or do I have to write a second fancy UI that looks good in the showroom, on test drives, and when the battery dies in the phone? How much time and money do I spend on that? If I'm Toyota and shipping cheap Corollas, what kind of screen do I pay for on that car? Triple-wide LCDs aren't exactly a commodity part. So is CarPlay 2 something only for expensive cars?
      - ricardobeat 4y ago
        Every automaker already ships their own UI. CarPlay is an extra feature.
  - wilsonnb3 4y ago
    It means the car has to have it’s own UI that you can choose to replace with CarPlay, which is exactly how it works right now. Alternatively a car could just come with the guts of an Apple TV built in to run an unconnected version of CarPlay when an iPhone is not connected.
    - warning26 4y ago
      That's what I'm wondering -- is this something comparable to Android Automotive where the car's UI itself is powered by Android?
- ra7 4y ago
  None of them are ever going to implement this and cede control of the entire instrument cluster and infotainment area to Apple.
  - netsharc 4y ago
    I wonder if Apple can strong-arm themselves into doing so. "Dear car manufacturer, [insert high percentage here]% of people who buy your cars use iPhones. If you want iPhone connectivity, we want the deep integration, or you and your customers get nothing, and they'll buy [competitor brand] instead.".
dalemyers 4y ago
On the one hand, Apple are significantly better at design than car manufacturers so this should be good. On the other hand, moving from something at least close to an RTOS to this does concern me. When your speedometer freezes, who is going to take the blame?
- tailspin2019 4y ago
  Yep I'm curious what mode it goes into when the iPhone disconnects. Presumably there is some built in local processing in the car's "display" which continues to render the important bits of the UI without connected features and widgets?
  - BonoboIO 4y ago
    Full steering lock + time for inapp purchase ;-)
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  What if your mechanical speedometer breaks? It happens, you shouldn’t crash because of that.
  - AlotOfReading 4y ago
    Firstly, there's a very good chance driving without a speedometer is illegal in your area. Secondly, anything that affects functional safety should itself be vetted fron a FuSa perspective. I guarantee you that most manufacturers treat the instrument cluster as a Functional Safety item. If CarPlay can't bring the system to a state where that analysis is affected (which seems unlikely here), there's no issue. That said, I'd probably use it.
    - tinus_hn 4y ago
      So is driving with a broken headlight. Yet we don’t demand headlights to be infallible.
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
fatnoah 4y ago
Yeah, I'm so not into this. While I would love a more visually compelling and useful in-car infotainment system, something being tied to iOS or Android is a hard no from me. I don't trust Apple to be anything other than a closed ecosystem, and I don't trust anything by Apple or Google to made obsolete well before the end of a vehicles useful lifetime.
- infinityio 4y ago
  I wonder if this will be the default interface for the car (with iOS devices the only first-class citizens, and very limited Google offerings) or if its going to be a mode that gets activated when an iPhone is present...
- scarface74 4y ago
  And you trust the car manufactures to write good software? The one reason I wouldn’t buy Tesla is because of its infotainment system. The on device display is basically a dumb remote terminal. Those are easy to stay compatible forever. I can still AirPlay from my an old 1st gen iPad to a new Roku TV. I can still print from an old IPad to a new printer.
  - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
    Car manufacturers often build software using an entirely different set of constraints: Real-time operating systems with extremely reliable code. Because when they fail, the vehicle recall often involves hauling every car into a dealership and having them flashed. The occasions these fail lead to scenarios like "the car accelerates suddenly" or "the car abruptly stops in the middle of the road". The fact that Apple and Tesla aren't good stewards of mission critical car software is, in fact, the fact it's trivial to push updates. It means they can shove out stuff with less validation and fix it in post. I would contend that easy patching nearly guarantees poorer software development correctness. Consider the fact that no Nintendo GameCube game has to be post-launch patched, and while some flaws do exist that speedrunners can exploit, all of the games still work, decades later. Compare that to modern games, which often require a "day one patch" to fix them. I absolutely trust a traditional car manufacturer to release better software than Apple or Google. It may not be as pretty or have as many bells and whistles, but it probably isn't going to kill me.
lkxijlewlf 4y ago
Sorry officer, I have absolutely no idea how fast I was going - I lost signal about 10 minutes ago.
TIPSIO 4y ago
Look at where the now playing audio is in this picture: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUlm_XEUUAAViqE?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUlm_XEUUAAViqE?format=jpg&name=...
- dagmx 4y ago
  Just as an FYI, that's intentional because some cars are now shipping with the extended screen for the passenger to control.
rektide 4y ago
Apple's proposing putting widgets in the center console. There's notably already a variety of widget games[1]. Apple does spend over a minute of their WidgetKit introduction in WWDC2020 declaring "widgets are not mini apps" but already this is a blurred line. I'd be more excited to see how Apple handles this situation, except I rather expect Apple just to be Apple and to manually approve each car widget. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/widget-games-casual-arcade/id1605540788 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/widget-games-casual-arcade/id1...
gnuj3 4y ago
Nope, absolutely hard no for me. As long as I can play my own music and answer calls in my car, I’m happy. I don’t need any of this shit on my dash as I’m not already spending way too much time looking at my phone screen anyways. Why would I want my passengers to see what’s on my calendar or see my messages? Its actually ridiculous. Let cars be cars for fucks sake.
lkxijlewlf 4y ago
There has to be a backup display that is not iOS (Apple - whatever). Cars last 10 or more years. Will Apple support this for at least that long? Also, in 10 years is any who doesn't own an Apple device going to be able to buy and drive a used car with this?
- turtlebits 4y ago
  I’ve never seen a car that didn’t have its own UI and relied on an Android/iOS device. CarPlay and Android auto are always optional.
m1keil 4y ago
My vehicle has a HUD that includes navigation hints when using the built-in GPS. It doesn't work when using Android Auto or Apple Carplay. It would be nice to have deeper integration like this.

32 points by emdashcomma 4y ago

warning26 4y ago

This looks amazing, but also likely to be ignored/ruined by vehicle manufactures who want to push their own UI.

tailspin2019 4y ago
I noted BMW weren't in the initial list of supported manufacturers. They're probably working on their new monthly subscription plans for "activating" this feature...
- throw457 4y ago
  BMW made a 180 with their infotainment system in the new BMW iX the old one in the i-series was at least usable.
joezydeco 4y ago
Honestly it makes no sense to show it as a full-dash replacement. That means the car has to ship with an iOS device or the owner is required to always have one plugged in? I see this more as "here's some early Apple Car UI that you all can play with and tell us what works and what doesn't, and maybe one of you developers in the audience will make something interesting we can eventually steal". The concept images are compelling but you won't see this in any new car any time soon.
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  Just like current CarPlay, the car has its own UI that can run standalone, it just gets replaced by the iOS one when active.
  - joezydeco 4y ago
    So let me see if I understand the economics here. I'm an automaker and I want a fancy UI on my dash (like Tesla or EQS). So I put in the big screen and then add the Apple extensions to allow CarPlay 2. But what do I ship with the car? A cheap and quick UI with basic features, or do I have to write a second fancy UI that looks good in the showroom, on test drives, and when the battery dies in the phone? How much time and money do I spend on that? If I'm Toyota and shipping cheap Corollas, what kind of screen do I pay for on that car? Triple-wide LCDs aren't exactly a commodity part. So is CarPlay 2 something only for expensive cars?
    - ricardobeat 4y ago
      Every automaker already ships their own UI. CarPlay is an extra feature.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  It means the car has to have it’s own UI that you can choose to replace with CarPlay, which is exactly how it works right now. Alternatively a car could just come with the guts of an Apple TV built in to run an unconnected version of CarPlay when an iPhone is not connected.
  - warning26 4y ago
    That's what I'm wondering -- is this something comparable to Android Automotive where the car's UI itself is powered by Android?
ra7 4y ago
None of them are ever going to implement this and cede control of the entire instrument cluster and infotainment area to Apple.
- netsharc 4y ago
  I wonder if Apple can strong-arm themselves into doing so. "Dear car manufacturer, [insert high percentage here]% of people who buy your cars use iPhones. If you want iPhone connectivity, we want the deep integration, or you and your customers get nothing, and they'll buy [competitor brand] instead.".

dalemyers 4y ago

On the one hand, Apple are significantly better at design than car manufacturers so this should be good. On the other hand, moving from something at least close to an RTOS to this does concern me. When your speedometer freezes, who is going to take the blame?

tailspin2019 4y ago
Yep I'm curious what mode it goes into when the iPhone disconnects. Presumably there is some built in local processing in the car's "display" which continues to render the important bits of the UI without connected features and widgets?
- BonoboIO 4y ago
  Full steering lock + time for inapp purchase ;-)
tinus_hn 4y ago
What if your mechanical speedometer breaks? It happens, you shouldn’t crash because of that.
- AlotOfReading 4y ago
  Firstly, there's a very good chance driving without a speedometer is illegal in your area. Secondly, anything that affects functional safety should itself be vetted fron a FuSa perspective. I guarantee you that most manufacturers treat the instrument cluster as a Functional Safety item. If CarPlay can't bring the system to a state where that analysis is affected (which seems unlikely here), there's no issue. That said, I'd probably use it.
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    So is driving with a broken headlight. Yet we don’t demand headlights to be infallible.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago

fatnoah 4y ago

Yeah, I'm so not into this. While I would love a more visually compelling and useful in-car infotainment system, something being tied to iOS or Android is a hard no from me. I don't trust Apple to be anything other than a closed ecosystem, and I don't trust anything by Apple or Google to made obsolete well before the end of a vehicles useful lifetime.

infinityio 4y ago
I wonder if this will be the default interface for the car (with iOS devices the only first-class citizens, and very limited Google offerings) or if its going to be a mode that gets activated when an iPhone is present...
scarface74 4y ago
And you trust the car manufactures to write good software? The one reason I wouldn’t buy Tesla is because of its infotainment system. The on device display is basically a dumb remote terminal. Those are easy to stay compatible forever. I can still AirPlay from my an old 1st gen iPad to a new Roku TV. I can still print from an old IPad to a new printer.
- ocdtrekkie 4y ago
  Car manufacturers often build software using an entirely different set of constraints: Real-time operating systems with extremely reliable code. Because when they fail, the vehicle recall often involves hauling every car into a dealership and having them flashed. The occasions these fail lead to scenarios like "the car accelerates suddenly" or "the car abruptly stops in the middle of the road". The fact that Apple and Tesla aren't good stewards of mission critical car software is, in fact, the fact it's trivial to push updates. It means they can shove out stuff with less validation and fix it in post. I would contend that easy patching nearly guarantees poorer software development correctness. Consider the fact that no Nintendo GameCube game has to be post-launch patched, and while some flaws do exist that speedrunners can exploit, all of the games still work, decades later. Compare that to modern games, which often require a "day one patch" to fix them. I absolutely trust a traditional car manufacturer to release better software than Apple or Google. It may not be as pretty or have as many bells and whistles, but it probably isn't going to kill me.

lkxijlewlf 4y ago

Sorry officer, I have absolutely no idea how fast I was going - I lost signal about 10 minutes ago.

TIPSIO 4y ago

Look at where the now playing audio is in this picture: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUlm_XEUUAAViqE?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUlm_XEUUAAViqE?format=jpg&name=...

dagmx 4y ago
Just as an FYI, that's intentional because some cars are now shipping with the extended screen for the passenger to control.

rektide 4y ago

Apple's proposing putting widgets in the center console. There's notably already a variety of widget games[1]. Apple does spend over a minute of their WidgetKit introduction in WWDC2020 declaring "widgets are not mini apps" but already this is a blurred line. I'd be more excited to see how Apple handles this situation, except I rather expect Apple just to be Apple and to manually approve each car widget. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/widget-games-casual-arcade/id1605540788 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/widget-games-casual-arcade/id1...

gnuj3 4y ago

Nope, absolutely hard no for me. As long as I can play my own music and answer calls in my car, I’m happy. I don’t need any of this shit on my dash as I’m not already spending way too much time looking at my phone screen anyways. Why would I want my passengers to see what’s on my calendar or see my messages? Its actually ridiculous. Let cars be cars for fucks sake.

lkxijlewlf 4y ago

There has to be a backup display that is not iOS (Apple - whatever). Cars last 10 or more years. Will Apple support this for at least that long? Also, in 10 years is any who doesn't own an Apple device going to be able to buy and drive a used car with this?

turtlebits 4y ago
I’ve never seen a car that didn’t have its own UI and relied on an Android/iOS device. CarPlay and Android auto are always optional.

m1keil 4y ago

My vehicle has a HUD that includes navigation hints when using the built-in GPS. It doesn't work when using Android Auto or Apple Carplay. It would be nice to have deeper integration like this.