9 ms·

Just like the Ballmer peak, i think there is an optimal peak for a CEO to be visible, Elon is way beyond that peak and full into "drunk" territory.

mlindner 4y ago
How visible Elon is is a result of reporting and the clickbait (often with false information) headlines used in that reporting.
- rvnx 4y ago
  He is visible because haters make him visible. Then haters complain he is too visible and there is infinite loop.
  - iostream24 4y ago
    - rvnx 4y ago
      Well look around in this exact page, how many haters are speaking vs people who don't care.
      - synu 4y ago
        To be honest, haters and defenders seem to be pretty evenly matched up at the moment. Maybe even slight edge to the defenders if not by number of accounts then by zeal to make lots of replies.
      - davidbarker 4y ago
        To call those people critical of Musk (with most providing what they perceive as valid reasons) “haters” feels cheap.
- d23 4y ago
  Hogwash. People made similar arguments about Trump (i.e. that the liberal media was taking his words out of context). I could see both men's juvenile tweets and judge for myself.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Comparing him to Trump is pretty ridiculous. One is an inept politician while the other is possibly one of the greatest people to have ever lived.
    - davidbarker 4y ago
      I’d be interested to hear your arguments about why you believe Musk is “possibly one of the greatest people to have ever lived“.
      - mlindner 4y ago
        Because he's almost single-handedly driven a fix to global warming and he will also vaunt our civilization on to other celestial bodies through the use of cheap space travel.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        > a fix to global warming We fixed global warming?
        mlindner 4y ago
        We're headed that way, as long as we don't somehow plateau on our improvement for some reason.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        That's a serious [citation needed] claim; even if everyone switched to electric vehicles tomorrow, that only accounts for 10-20% of global emissions, and we've gotta cut a lot more than that.
- synu 4y ago
  It’s strange how there are people who treat it like it’s their job to hate or defend him. You see the same names replying on every thread making the same points, even across multiple posts.
  - qzx_pierri 4y ago
    They're simply posting (what they perceive to be) the popular opinion. They're just grifting the comment section for upvotes.
    - synu 4y ago
      But to what end?
      - WJW 4y ago
        For some, upvotes are their own reward.
  - boringg 4y ago
    Agree. He's a lightning road of a character so I think people are attracted to his accomplishments and ability to get execution or alternatively despise his changing social positions. He's not emblematic of US problems but theres a trajectory that lines up with some of the political discord timeline wise and his change in perspectives going from center left to center right.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Was there anything false about him saying he would buy Twitter and then backed out - like most people assumed he would?
  - mlindner 4y ago
    He doesn't want to back out. He wants accurate information. Your post already assumes the incorrect information at hand. A great example of how far gone the misinformation campaign already is.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - davidbarker 4y ago
      I believe he waived his right to due diligence, which is why the deal went through so quickly. If he now regrets that, it’s his own fault.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      The 5% number has been there for ages. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/twitter-sale-musk-bots/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/twitter... > The number is hardly new: Twitter has been giving the same estimate for years, even though critics and experts have said they believe the company is lowballing the actual number of such accounts. If Musk wanted the deal contingent on this very specific data point, he should've said so before he committed to the $1B cancellation fee and made it part of that agreement.
    - ra7 4y ago
      He wants accurate information after he explicitly waived his right to do due diligence when he was trying to force Twitter’s board to accept his price? He didn’t think of it before?
    - rchaud 4y ago
      If you don't kick the tires before agreeing to buy, well, that's on the buyer. DYOR > "Musk tweeted on Tuesday that Twitter Chief Executive Parag Agrawal has refused to show proof for his company's estimate and that the deal cannot move forward until he does. Twitter's proxy statement shows that in the run-up to the deal Musk made no effort to get information about the issue. "Mr. Musk did not ask to enter into a confidentiality agreement or seek from Twitter any non-public info regarding Twitter," Twitter said in its proxy statement." https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitter-committed-elon-musks-44-billion-deal-2022-05-17/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitter-committed-elon...
- rchaud 4y ago
  His visibility is magnified by his own Twitter presence posting style, similar to a certain other personality who leveraged Twitter well. There's a reason so many refer to him on a first-name basis that they don't with other tech CEOs, and it's not because of media coverage. It's because of his own cult of personality that makes his fans think he's one of them and overlook the countless shortfalls in his visions for the future.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    I call him with a first name basis because he's probably the person I know best outside my very best friends and my own family. I've been following and listening to him for a decade now and I know his personality well. Twitter is where he plays around, but his thoughtful personality comes through face to face in talks and interviews. That's what shows how Elon got to where he is. No other CEO talks with the clarity like he does (ironically in a stuttering fashion). It's not because of a "cult". It's because of his insight into things I had never put that much thought into. He's broken a lot of my own assumptions about how things are supposed to work. He's literally changed how I think as an engineer.
    - synu 4y ago
      Be careful, parasocial relationships like that can lead to unhealthy behaviour. People sometimes go off the deep end and start arguing with everyone on the internet about the target of their desire, and lose all sense of perspective. You see them taking on all comers in threads like these, and it’s a bit disturbing when you notice it’s just the same username over and over. Not saying it’s what you’re doing, but your comment reminded me of people like that.
    - rchaud 4y ago
      So after a decade of "knowing him well" via his Twitter and interviews, what do you think of his recent behavior? Still the clearest communicator?
      - mlindner 4y ago
- theossuary 4y ago
  He's visible by choice. His bonuses in his Tesla contract are tied to the company's stock price. He realized he could boost the stock by being highly visible, and doing what he does. This lead to multi-billion single day payouts when Musk got people on the internet to buy his inflated stock. Now that he's made himself so visible, it isn't going to change unless he decides to make himself less visible. Which I doubt.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    His "bonuses" are his only income first off so they don't really classify as that. And no, they're not tied to company's stock price. They're tied to revenue (or EBITDA) AND stock price. Just pushing the stock price up doesn't get him any more stock options. He's visible because of his neurosis. He doesn't do it to make money. He's never admitted to it, but it's been hinted at in the past that he also has some kind of bipolar condition as well.
- Uehreka 4y ago
  I’m generally weary of “clickbait” being used as an excuse for various things on HN, but this takes the cake: Elon is visible because he loves—nay, craves—attention. Sure, the media reports on him a lot, but it’s because he gives them endless stuff to report on. He’s made himself the face of every company he owns, and gives ostentatious presentations of products that are often totally bananas (like the CyberTruck). He posts 2011-era memes on Twitter then randomly decides to talk about buying companies or taking companies private while tweeting questions about business strategy at their CEOs. He dated a pop star and they gave their child a name that sounds like a galaxy cluster. For better or for worse, Elon’s intense visibility is his own doing, and the press is just along for the ride.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
My understanding was that Steve Ballmer was primarily a punching bag. I thought he had a VERY short-lived period where he was popular in the media and everyone was raving about him (Developers, Developers, Developers - like 1 or 2 years after XP), and then after that he was a punching bag for like a decade. Is this wrong?
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  I think the issue is that Ballmer's Microsoft wasn't very effective. While late-Gates Microsoft was the king of whole technology industry, by late Ballmer it was one of many players. While they haven't decayed into "enterprise" obscurity like IBM, they weren't driving the industry then. They missed several "trends" like mobile phones, and only thanks to Nadella they've caught up in cloud with Azure.
  - rkk3 4y ago
    Sort of ignores that during this period they were fighting the US. federal government and their product development gotten taken over by lawyers
  - basch 4y ago
    There is a sort of "the current president inherits the previous person's work" going on. Balmer was responsible for the One Microsoft reorganization which Nadella finished executing. https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4514160/steve-ballmers-reorganization-memo https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4514160/steve-ballmers-re... https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4486730/microsoft-reorganization-2013-ballmer-one-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4486730/microsoft-reorgan... I dont think Ballmer get's enough credit for reflecting on his tenure, looking at what didnt work, and blowing it up for the future on his way out the door.
- sf_rob 4y ago
  The comment you're responding to is referring to a meme about the optimal level of drunkenness for programming[1] not Ballmer's press performance. [1] https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/

mlindner 4y ago

How visible Elon is is a result of reporting and the clickbait (often with false information) headlines used in that reporting.

rvnx 4y ago
He is visible because haters make him visible. Then haters complain he is too visible and there is infinite loop.
- iostream24 4y ago
  - rvnx 4y ago
    Well look around in this exact page, how many haters are speaking vs people who don't care.
    - synu 4y ago
      To be honest, haters and defenders seem to be pretty evenly matched up at the moment. Maybe even slight edge to the defenders if not by number of accounts then by zeal to make lots of replies.
    - davidbarker 4y ago
      To call those people critical of Musk (with most providing what they perceive as valid reasons) “haters” feels cheap.
d23 4y ago
Hogwash. People made similar arguments about Trump (i.e. that the liberal media was taking his words out of context). I could see both men's juvenile tweets and judge for myself.
- mlindner 4y ago
  Comparing him to Trump is pretty ridiculous. One is an inept politician while the other is possibly one of the greatest people to have ever lived.
  - davidbarker 4y ago
    I’d be interested to hear your arguments about why you believe Musk is “possibly one of the greatest people to have ever lived“.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      Because he's almost single-handedly driven a fix to global warming and he will also vaunt our civilization on to other celestial bodies through the use of cheap space travel.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        > a fix to global warming We fixed global warming?
        mlindner 4y ago
        We're headed that way, as long as we don't somehow plateau on our improvement for some reason.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        That's a serious [citation needed] claim; even if everyone switched to electric vehicles tomorrow, that only accounts for 10-20% of global emissions, and we've gotta cut a lot more than that.
synu 4y ago
It’s strange how there are people who treat it like it’s their job to hate or defend him. You see the same names replying on every thread making the same points, even across multiple posts.
- qzx_pierri 4y ago
  They're simply posting (what they perceive to be) the popular opinion. They're just grifting the comment section for upvotes.
  - synu 4y ago
    But to what end?
    - WJW 4y ago
      For some, upvotes are their own reward.
- boringg 4y ago
  Agree. He's a lightning road of a character so I think people are attracted to his accomplishments and ability to get execution or alternatively despise his changing social positions. He's not emblematic of US problems but theres a trajectory that lines up with some of the political discord timeline wise and his change in perspectives going from center left to center right.
scarface74 4y ago
Was there anything false about him saying he would buy Twitter and then backed out - like most people assumed he would?
- mlindner 4y ago
  He doesn't want to back out. He wants accurate information. Your post already assumes the incorrect information at hand. A great example of how far gone the misinformation campaign already is.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - davidbarker 4y ago
    I believe he waived his right to due diligence, which is why the deal went through so quickly. If he now regrets that, it’s his own fault.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    The 5% number has been there for ages. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/twitter-sale-musk-bots/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/twitter... > The number is hardly new: Twitter has been giving the same estimate for years, even though critics and experts have said they believe the company is lowballing the actual number of such accounts. If Musk wanted the deal contingent on this very specific data point, he should've said so before he committed to the $1B cancellation fee and made it part of that agreement.
  - ra7 4y ago
    He wants accurate information after he explicitly waived his right to do due diligence when he was trying to force Twitter’s board to accept his price? He didn’t think of it before?
  - rchaud 4y ago
    If you don't kick the tires before agreeing to buy, well, that's on the buyer. DYOR > "Musk tweeted on Tuesday that Twitter Chief Executive Parag Agrawal has refused to show proof for his company's estimate and that the deal cannot move forward until he does. Twitter's proxy statement shows that in the run-up to the deal Musk made no effort to get information about the issue. "Mr. Musk did not ask to enter into a confidentiality agreement or seek from Twitter any non-public info regarding Twitter," Twitter said in its proxy statement." https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitter-committed-elon-musks-44-billion-deal-2022-05-17/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitter-committed-elon...
rchaud 4y ago
His visibility is magnified by his own Twitter presence posting style, similar to a certain other personality who leveraged Twitter well. There's a reason so many refer to him on a first-name basis that they don't with other tech CEOs, and it's not because of media coverage. It's because of his own cult of personality that makes his fans think he's one of them and overlook the countless shortfalls in his visions for the future.
- mlindner 4y ago
  I call him with a first name basis because he's probably the person I know best outside my very best friends and my own family. I've been following and listening to him for a decade now and I know his personality well. Twitter is where he plays around, but his thoughtful personality comes through face to face in talks and interviews. That's what shows how Elon got to where he is. No other CEO talks with the clarity like he does (ironically in a stuttering fashion). It's not because of a "cult". It's because of his insight into things I had never put that much thought into. He's broken a lot of my own assumptions about how things are supposed to work. He's literally changed how I think as an engineer.
  - synu 4y ago
    Be careful, parasocial relationships like that can lead to unhealthy behaviour. People sometimes go off the deep end and start arguing with everyone on the internet about the target of their desire, and lose all sense of perspective. You see them taking on all comers in threads like these, and it’s a bit disturbing when you notice it’s just the same username over and over. Not saying it’s what you’re doing, but your comment reminded me of people like that.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    So after a decade of "knowing him well" via his Twitter and interviews, what do you think of his recent behavior? Still the clearest communicator?
    - mlindner 4y ago
theossuary 4y ago
He's visible by choice. His bonuses in his Tesla contract are tied to the company's stock price. He realized he could boost the stock by being highly visible, and doing what he does. This lead to multi-billion single day payouts when Musk got people on the internet to buy his inflated stock. Now that he's made himself so visible, it isn't going to change unless he decides to make himself less visible. Which I doubt.
- mlindner 4y ago
  His "bonuses" are his only income first off so they don't really classify as that. And no, they're not tied to company's stock price. They're tied to revenue (or EBITDA) AND stock price. Just pushing the stock price up doesn't get him any more stock options. He's visible because of his neurosis. He doesn't do it to make money. He's never admitted to it, but it's been hinted at in the past that he also has some kind of bipolar condition as well.
Uehreka 4y ago
I’m generally weary of “clickbait” being used as an excuse for various things on HN, but this takes the cake: Elon is visible because he loves—nay, craves—attention. Sure, the media reports on him a lot, but it’s because he gives them endless stuff to report on. He’s made himself the face of every company he owns, and gives ostentatious presentations of products that are often totally bananas (like the CyberTruck). He posts 2011-era memes on Twitter then randomly decides to talk about buying companies or taking companies private while tweeting questions about business strategy at their CEOs. He dated a pop star and they gave their child a name that sounds like a galaxy cluster. For better or for worse, Elon’s intense visibility is his own doing, and the press is just along for the ride.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

My understanding was that Steve Ballmer was primarily a punching bag. I thought he had a VERY short-lived period where he was popular in the media and everyone was raving about him (Developers, Developers, Developers - like 1 or 2 years after XP), and then after that he was a punching bag for like a decade. Is this wrong?

KptMarchewa 4y ago
I think the issue is that Ballmer's Microsoft wasn't very effective. While late-Gates Microsoft was the king of whole technology industry, by late Ballmer it was one of many players. While they haven't decayed into "enterprise" obscurity like IBM, they weren't driving the industry then. They missed several "trends" like mobile phones, and only thanks to Nadella they've caught up in cloud with Azure.
- rkk3 4y ago
  Sort of ignores that during this period they were fighting the US. federal government and their product development gotten taken over by lawyers
- basch 4y ago
  There is a sort of "the current president inherits the previous person's work" going on. Balmer was responsible for the One Microsoft reorganization which Nadella finished executing. https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4514160/steve-ballmers-reorganization-memo https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4514160/steve-ballmers-re... https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4486730/microsoft-reorganization-2013-ballmer-one-microsoft https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/11/4486730/microsoft-reorgan... I dont think Ballmer get's enough credit for reflecting on his tenure, looking at what didnt work, and blowing it up for the future on his way out the door.
sf_rob 4y ago
The comment you're responding to is referring to a meme about the optimal level of drunkenness for programming[1] not Ballmer's press performance. [1] https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/