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I used to feel that way, then I got an electric car with a 250 mile range last year. I really have not felt the desire to ever have a gasoline car since. Hybr

I used to feel that way, then I got an electric car with a 250 mile range last year. I really have not felt the desire to ever have a gasoline car since. Hybrids have so many more parts needed, that I feel like they will simply have more problems long term. In an EV, there's not much that will ever need to get replaced due to "wear" other than tires and brakes. As for charging, this last weekend was the first time I've ever had a problem finding a charger on 300 mile days. Most people I know don't even go on as many long drives as I do, as I enjoy driving for driving sake. I have zero plans on gasoline ever again.

azinman2 4y ago
Same, although the very rare road trip is more annoying. I can always rent an ICE in these situations. Totally worth it otherwise, especially as I watch fuel prices go up.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Yeah, if you get unlimited miles, it makes A LOT of sense to rent. I've done weekend trips covering 1000km and wondered that I should have rented for the weekend because it would be more economical to put the meterage on vehicle that isn't my own. Plus if I have a mechanical issue, it's the rental companies problem, not mine.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Genuine question: is the use of “meterage” the common/standard way to refer to the total distance a car has traveled (as we would use “mileage” in the US)?
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      No; but I want it to be
      - epgui 4y ago
        Here's an upvote and a high-five for using civilized units!
sokoloff 4y ago
The Toyota HSD has had remarkably good service life and results across almost 20 years now. Is it going to be 100% as good as a BEV? Probably not. Would I bet on it economically reaching 250K miles without major drama? I would.
rootusrootus 4y ago
Same here. The little extra time I spend on the road trip we make twice or three times a year to grandma's house is more than offset by the 10 minutes a week I don't spend putting gas in. I never want to give up home fueling.
yumraj 4y ago
> Hybrids have so many more parts needed, that I feel like they will simply have more problems long term. Hybrids are well tested technology. Both Toyota and Honda have been producing hybrids for over 20-25 years now. We had a Prius that worked flawlessly for over 250K miles, before it had to be retired when its catalytic converter was stolen.
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  I'm not positive that a hybrid is actually that much more complicated than a traditional drive train with an engine + automatic transmission.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    It isn't. There's a transfer case between the electric drive and the gasoline engine. It's not that complicated, basically a planetary gear mechanism, and is pretty rugged and trouble-free.
  - yumraj 4y ago
    Exactly. In fact hybrid is easier on the ICE since it takes a lot of load while starting the car and during acceleration. So, they, IMHO, have longer life than just ICE cars.
  - toast0 4y ago
    Agreeing with others, it might be less complicated. With the generally accepted drive train (pioneered by Toyota, and adopted by everyone else), there's two electric motors instead of one, but the gearing between the engine, the two motors, and the output shaft is fixed. There's no transmission actuators to break (other than the park pawl, but that's pretty simple). You can still have problems of course, Ford messed up something on early HF35 transmissions and many of them have bearings fail, leading to a short service life (mine was covered under warranty, so now I've got a new transmission).
    - fomine3 4y ago
      Is THS-like hybrid system now common? For Japanese manufacturers, only Toyota uses THS-like system. AFAIK Germans too. I've researched past for my curiosity, but it seems that parallel-hybrid is more common for worldwide. Chrysler Pacifica also looks like THS-like. I wish manufacturers open how system work. This article covers well (Japanese but figures are English so not block machine translation). https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%96%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%83%89%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84%E3%82%92%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A8%E3%82%81%E3%81%9F/ https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E...
alphakappa 4y ago
EVs have plenty of mechanical parts that are not brakes and wheels. It will need servicing, just of a different sort.
- anarticle 4y ago
  It's not a 1:1. ICE has things like: belts (less so now), exhaust, cooling that goes all over the place, vibration, fuel handling (injectors, lines, pump, sometimes more than one pump!), air handling with intakes and filters, sensors for all that junk (oxygen, MAF), oil and oil routing if there's a cooler, transmission cooler in some cases. Lots of these subsystems are total deletions in electric cars. I'm not saying mechanics will go obsolete, but you're not going to see nearly as many of them. There's simply less to go wrong. I'm sure that something that goes wrong will be on the order of 10k~ :D. I don't have it at hand, but there was a picture of the frame containing non-drive train components for the Model S, and it was maybe 2ft by 2ft. A peek at the front of a model S skateboard: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/d1/50/dfd15057c8b5a4d129e91ec3b69847fb--combustion-engine-tesla-models.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/d1/50/dfd15057c8b5a4d129e91ec3b...
- epgui 4y ago
  The point is that they have much fewer of them, not that they have none. Not having to withstand thousands of explosions per minute (whatever RPM the engine is turning at, times the number of pistons in the engine) as a requirement is an extreme advantage.
  - cityofdelusion 4y ago
    Modern combustion engines are very robust and usually not any significant source of failure. Cars on the verge of being scrapped have everything else wrong — rust, suspension, ac lines, electronics, locks, windows, lights, etc etc.
  - coryrc 4y ago
    Gasoline in engines deflagrates, it does not detonate.
Spooky23 4y ago
The lifespans of cars have little to with the power train. Any post-2000 car is capable of about 200-400k miles. After that, wear and tear takes its toll. I live in the northeast, where salt and other factors takes you to the lower end. As an example, I drove a 2003 Honda Pilot for 260k miles. I made the decision to get rid of it as the suspension and frame rust made repairs far in excess of the value of the car. Electric cars are the classic capital vs operational expense discussion. More expensive to buy, sometimes cheaper to own.
- mdorazio 4y ago
  I hate seeing people say things like this with zero data to back it up. With a few exceptions, less than 5% of cars reach 200k miles [1]. [1] https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study#v=2022 https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study#v=2022
  - formvoltron 4y ago
    Right now the Ford F150 lightening base - $7500 tax credit nearly == the base ICE F150. Minus gasoline volatility. (volatility has a price, just ask wall street options dealers) Minus repairs. Minus damage to environment.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    A lot of cars get totaled. My car would’ve made it to 200k but someone ran into it at 196k. Due to depreciation and mileage - it was a full write off after that crash. For reference, I could still drive the car after the crash just barely. It would’ve been a lot of work to fix but on a 50k car, it might’ve been worth it. On a 5k car? No.
  - dsadsadsaddsa 4y ago
    It would be interesting to see any data on the reasons why cars are scrapped. I have a hunch that electronic problems make up a large percentage of them, along with rust.
    - 4y ago
oliwarner 4y ago
> other than tires and brakes And batteries. I'm not claiming for a second that the cadence of swapping batteries is going to be anything like all the consumable filters and gaskets, transmissions, bearings, etc but when the day comes to replace seven thousand 18650 cells in one go, it's going to sting. On the plus side, that's another 15y on the road.

azinman2 4y ago

Same, although the very rare road trip is more annoying. I can always rent an ICE in these situations. Totally worth it otherwise, especially as I watch fuel prices go up.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Yeah, if you get unlimited miles, it makes A LOT of sense to rent. I've done weekend trips covering 1000km and wondered that I should have rented for the weekend because it would be more economical to put the meterage on vehicle that isn't my own. Plus if I have a mechanical issue, it's the rental companies problem, not mine.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Genuine question: is the use of “meterage” the common/standard way to refer to the total distance a car has traveled (as we would use “mileage” in the US)?
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    No; but I want it to be
    - epgui 4y ago
      Here's an upvote and a high-five for using civilized units!

sokoloff 4y ago

The Toyota HSD has had remarkably good service life and results across almost 20 years now. Is it going to be 100% as good as a BEV? Probably not. Would I bet on it economically reaching 250K miles without major drama? I would.

rootusrootus 4y ago

Same here. The little extra time I spend on the road trip we make twice or three times a year to grandma's house is more than offset by the 10 minutes a week I don't spend putting gas in. I never want to give up home fueling.

yumraj 4y ago

> Hybrids have so many more parts needed, that I feel like they will simply have more problems long term. Hybrids are well tested technology. Both Toyota and Honda have been producing hybrids for over 20-25 years now. We had a Prius that worked flawlessly for over 250K miles, before it had to be retired when its catalytic converter was stolen.

Gibbon1 4y ago
I'm not positive that a hybrid is actually that much more complicated than a traditional drive train with an engine + automatic transmission.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  It isn't. There's a transfer case between the electric drive and the gasoline engine. It's not that complicated, basically a planetary gear mechanism, and is pretty rugged and trouble-free.
- yumraj 4y ago
  Exactly. In fact hybrid is easier on the ICE since it takes a lot of load while starting the car and during acceleration. So, they, IMHO, have longer life than just ICE cars.
- toast0 4y ago
  Agreeing with others, it might be less complicated. With the generally accepted drive train (pioneered by Toyota, and adopted by everyone else), there's two electric motors instead of one, but the gearing between the engine, the two motors, and the output shaft is fixed. There's no transmission actuators to break (other than the park pawl, but that's pretty simple). You can still have problems of course, Ford messed up something on early HF35 transmissions and many of them have bearings fail, leading to a short service life (mine was covered under warranty, so now I've got a new transmission).
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Is THS-like hybrid system now common? For Japanese manufacturers, only Toyota uses THS-like system. AFAIK Germans too. I've researched past for my curiosity, but it seems that parallel-hybrid is more common for worldwide. Chrysler Pacifica also looks like THS-like. I wish manufacturers open how system work. This article covers well (Japanese but figures are English so not block machine translation). https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%96%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%83%89%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84%E3%82%92%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A8%E3%82%81%E3%81%9F/ https://anopara.net/2016/03/11/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BE%E3%81%AE%E...

alphakappa 4y ago

EVs have plenty of mechanical parts that are not brakes and wheels. It will need servicing, just of a different sort.

anarticle 4y ago
It's not a 1:1. ICE has things like: belts (less so now), exhaust, cooling that goes all over the place, vibration, fuel handling (injectors, lines, pump, sometimes more than one pump!), air handling with intakes and filters, sensors for all that junk (oxygen, MAF), oil and oil routing if there's a cooler, transmission cooler in some cases. Lots of these subsystems are total deletions in electric cars. I'm not saying mechanics will go obsolete, but you're not going to see nearly as many of them. There's simply less to go wrong. I'm sure that something that goes wrong will be on the order of 10k~ :D. I don't have it at hand, but there was a picture of the frame containing non-drive train components for the Model S, and it was maybe 2ft by 2ft. A peek at the front of a model S skateboard: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/d1/50/dfd15057c8b5a4d129e91ec3b69847fb--combustion-engine-tesla-models.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/d1/50/dfd15057c8b5a4d129e91ec3b...
epgui 4y ago
The point is that they have much fewer of them, not that they have none. Not having to withstand thousands of explosions per minute (whatever RPM the engine is turning at, times the number of pistons in the engine) as a requirement is an extreme advantage.
- cityofdelusion 4y ago
  Modern combustion engines are very robust and usually not any significant source of failure. Cars on the verge of being scrapped have everything else wrong — rust, suspension, ac lines, electronics, locks, windows, lights, etc etc.
- coryrc 4y ago
  Gasoline in engines deflagrates, it does not detonate.

Spooky23 4y ago

The lifespans of cars have little to with the power train. Any post-2000 car is capable of about 200-400k miles. After that, wear and tear takes its toll. I live in the northeast, where salt and other factors takes you to the lower end. As an example, I drove a 2003 Honda Pilot for 260k miles. I made the decision to get rid of it as the suspension and frame rust made repairs far in excess of the value of the car. Electric cars are the classic capital vs operational expense discussion. More expensive to buy, sometimes cheaper to own.

mdorazio 4y ago
I hate seeing people say things like this with zero data to back it up. With a few exceptions, less than 5% of cars reach 200k miles [1]. [1] https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study#v=2022 https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study#v=2022
- formvoltron 4y ago
  Right now the Ford F150 lightening base - $7500 tax credit nearly == the base ICE F150. Minus gasoline volatility. (volatility has a price, just ask wall street options dealers) Minus repairs. Minus damage to environment.
- bradlys 4y ago
  A lot of cars get totaled. My car would’ve made it to 200k but someone ran into it at 196k. Due to depreciation and mileage - it was a full write off after that crash. For reference, I could still drive the car after the crash just barely. It would’ve been a lot of work to fix but on a 50k car, it might’ve been worth it. On a 5k car? No.
- dsadsadsaddsa 4y ago
  It would be interesting to see any data on the reasons why cars are scrapped. I have a hunch that electronic problems make up a large percentage of them, along with rust.
  - 4y ago

oliwarner 4y ago

> other than tires and brakes And batteries. I'm not claiming for a second that the cadence of swapping batteries is going to be anything like all the consumable filters and gaskets, transmissions, bearings, etc but when the day comes to replace seven thousand 18650 cells in one go, it's going to sting. On the plus side, that's another 15y on the road.