24 ms·

I only care about the helpful notifications, not the promotional ones

462 points by otras 4y ago

emsy 4y ago
Isn’t the justification of Apple that they have a monopoly on the App Store so they can protect users from notification abuse? In reality this is not enforced at all and even Apple themselves will send you ads.
- tsuujin 4y ago
  No? The walled garden is a safeguard against malicious apps, not against marketing shenanigans.
  - emsy 4y ago
    They explicitly state in their developer agreement not to use notifications for ads.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      That rule (and plenty of other rules such as the privacy disclosures being incorrect) isn't enforced and I'm not even sure where to report such violations. App Store rules are only enforced when it's convenient for Apple or their partners.
    - tsuujin 4y ago
      This changed a couple of years ago, apps can send you ads so long as you opt in, but what qualifies as opting in can be as simple as a bit of language during signup; it’s pretty easy to bypass this. > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app's UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages. Abuse of these services may result in revocation of your privileges. From: https://www.imore.com/apples-updated-developer-guidelines-now-allow-ads-push-notifications https://www.imore.com/apples-updated-developer-guidelines-no...
      - emsy 4y ago
        I stand somewhat corrected, but you have to admit that rule has never really been enforced.
        tsuujin 4y ago
        I think we’ll need actual regulation before we see any enforcement, unfortunately. Because Apple takes a cut of app profits, they’re incentivized to allow for scummy engagement practices. We need something like the CAN-SPAM (which as for emails) to classify transactional vs marketing/engagement notifications and a way to levy fines on violations.
- Juicyy 4y ago
  Better yet, Apple sends me news notifications for apple news that you have to pay for.... Who the fuck thinks its a good idea to send you notifications blocked behind a paywall... cant even comprehend the logic in the microtransaction, pay to win, notifications, paywall bullshit we see in mobile, tech, gaming, etc. I have had enough. Literally just deleted all that stuff. All i need is VScode and youtube.
midislack 4y ago
Your smart phone is a store and you're the product. It's that simple.
samwhiteUK 4y ago
> like if there was an option when long-pressing the app on the home screen to quickly enable or disable notifications Nice idea
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
serverlessmom 4y ago
This is interesting to me. I'm extremely frustrated by meal delivery apps, where I need the notifications on to know when my food is here, but hate getting promotional ads at random We're working on tools to help developers send notifications more easily at https://www.courier.com/ https://www.courier.com/, and working on tools like automations to hopefully make notifications a bit smarter and less spammy.
silversub 4y ago
I’ve started treating my phone like a firewall using do not disturb. Whitelist (aka favorite) the phone numbers I care about. I will temporarily take off do not disturb when using Uber/Lyft. I don’t really have a need to be notified by any other app.
dahart 4y ago
In email land, the terms for helpful vs promotional are "transactional email" for the helpful stuff (e.g., https://mailchimp.com/help/about-transactional-email/ https://mailchimp.com/help/about-transactional-email/) and "marketing email" for the promotional ones. There are channels to report abuse if it's bad, not to mention just leaving reviews and mentioning why.
- webmobdev 4y ago
  Had similar ideas - I share the author's frustration in India, the delivery apps and banking apps are the worst culprits. I wonder if the regulators can be asked to extend the "Do Not Call" registry to include barring such app notifications? For example, the National Do Not Call Registry in my country has now been renamed to National Customer Preference Register (NCPR). This now gives indians more fine-grained options to choose what kind of marketing calls we want to bar or receive: > “Transactional message” means a message triggered by a transaction performed by the subscriber, who is also the sender’s customer, provided such a message is sent within 30 minutes of the transaction being performed and is directly related to it. Provided that the transaction may be a banking transaction, delivery of OTP, purchase of goods or services, etc. ... “Unsolicited commercial communication or UCC” means any commercial communication that is neither as per the consent nor as per registered preference(s) of recipient, but shall not include: (i)Any transactional message or transactional voice call ... Source: TRAI regulation - https://trai.gov.in/sites/default/files/DraftUCCRegulation29052018.pdf https://trai.gov.in/sites/default/files/DraftUCCRegulation29... They can extend this to mobile OS notifications and ask Google, Apple, Samsung etc. (mobile OS makers) to ensure that all promotional messages through such notifications are blocked, and only "transactional messages" are allowed.
- floren 4y ago
  Expedia is really bad about calling all their promotions "transactional emails". You see, once upon a time in the distant past, I used Expedia, so based on that transaction surely I care deeply about how "A more rewarding travel experience is coming in February": http://jfloren.net/content/expedia.png http://jfloren.net/content/expedia.png
ianbutler 4y ago
I was saying this yesterday, LinkedIn, as an example, sends me the most inane notifications as do many apps trying to steal my time. I pay LinkedIn 100 dollars a month, those notifications should serve me, not the other way around. I really don't care about some low substance content written by someone who I'm neither connected with nor follow.
- b112 4y ago
  I was on the fence about a premium account, but thanks for this info.
  - kmonsen 4y ago
    What's the draw of premium? Cannot see anything there that would be more then marginal useful for me.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      I believe if you do too many searches in a month they force you onto premium.
    - b112 4y ago
      They claim all sorts of wondrous benefits, and have a free trial. Figured I'd try it and see, but not if it is going to be an abusive relationship.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      It's completely useless, don't waste your time. The UI is just as slow & terrible, all the dark patterns and ads are still there even if you pay.
    - DoctorDabadedoo 4y ago
      You're able to directly message people that are not your friends and see who saw your profile (no matter their privacy configuration, I believe). For me that's about it. Useful if you are job hunting, but nothing to go crazy over. Honestly, the only thing keeping me on LinkedIn is FOMO of that spectacular job that a recruiter might reach out about, but reality is that this doesn't happen at all for positions worth their salt.
gondo 4y ago
Revolut is doing this and it infuriates me. I want the payment notifications, not the promotional, gamification spam.
night-rider 4y ago
I only care about NO notifications. Disabling all notifications is the first step to more saner approaches to technology. I turned my digital life into a pull medium where I check SMS messages etc when I want to, and not having real-time notifications of every little event gives me more peace. It’s a form of digital veganism that I employ. Turn your digital life into pull mediums instead of push.
- p49k 4y ago
  The subject of the article is about apps bundling time sensitive notifications that you can’t realistically disable with promotions. You can turn off most notifications for a calmer life, but when you order an Uber you need to know if it’s arriving or if the driver sent you an important message.
  - technothrasher 4y ago
    Granted I don't live in an urban area and so don't use these apps all the much, but typically when I want an Uber or to order something with Doordash, or whatever, I'll install the app only long enough to use the service, and then uninstall it. And my rule for apps that stay on my phone (and there are not many) is that they get one chance. The first promotion notification I get, either all notifications get disabled or the app gets uninstalled.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Keeping the app in foreground or checking it every few minutes is usually not too big of a deal in my experience.
- theamk 4y ago
  I think this only works when you are alone. Once you miss a few important notifications from your friends/spouse/kids/parents, like "the place A was closed, we went to B", you'll want to reconsider.
- samwillis 4y ago
  Same here, have turned off all app notifications. Email set to only notify for a short list of about 10-15 people who I regularly communicate with.
grose 4y ago
I've noticed this in social networks as well. If you don't get enough transactional notifications for a while they start making up fake ones like Twitter's "in case you missed this Tweet", Facebook's "[someone] posted for the first time in a while", all the while lighting up the notifications badge. Leads to a "boy who cried wolf" scenario in which I stop trusting notifications entirely and just ignore them, possibly missing out on actual useful ones. I really wish companies let us turn this kind of thing off, or better yet stopped trying to boost "engagement" numbers by violating your user's trust.
- technothrasher 4y ago
  I don't know if Facebook still does this, as I've completely nuked it from my life, but when I had an account I asked it to turn off all email notifications. But if I didn't log on to Facebook after about two weeks I would get an email saying they were concerned I would miss out and so they helpfully turned email notifications back on for me.
  - wincy 4y ago
    I didn’t use Facebook for a few years and they sent me a completely fake account security notification. I was super mad about it.
  - diebeforei485 4y ago
    Sometimes when they created a new feature (eg. Groups), they would email everyone about activity on it even if email notifications were off.
- rapind 4y ago
  Apple kept a notification badge on my settings icon for Apple Pay until I finally went in and opted out of it. Under the guise of “Finish setting up your iPhone”. It’s not a big deal I guess, but annoying and obviously promotional. Now I partially associate Apple with intentionally annoying.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
sumthinprofound 4y ago
Grubhub does this as well, so all of their notifications are disabled by me.
rutierut 4y ago
As someone who travels a bit I’ve got quite some food delivery and ride share apps on my phone. The marketing notifications are driving me crazy, I regularly miss relevant notifications because Grab, Uber, Uber Eats, Glovo, Bolt, and Cabify are all sending me almost daily notifications with some sort of cringe content trying to nudge me to take a cab/order food. Especially Uber Eats and Glovo are bad.
- clumpthump 4y ago
  It's definitely annoying that users can't opt-in only to the types of notifications they want on installation, but Uber and Uber Eats are not guilty of what Starbucks is doing in the article (at least on Android); you can disable all notifications besides "Taking a Ride" and "Your Order" notifications.
- aembleton 4y ago
  Disable notifications for them. It's not a perfect solution but it will make your life calmer. Just re enable them when you need to use Über or on Android just disable the promotional notifications
theamk 4y ago
I have a pretty good idea on how to fix this (and many similar) problems: "hibernate app" option. Its a new app state where app icon icon has some mark (like being semi-grayed out) and all the background app services are disabled (tracking, promotional popups, periodic wakeups, etc...). The app is only un-hibernated if user explicitly clicks on it, it cannot do it by itself. The app can be hibernated by long-press menu on app icon or notification. So the first time you get an ad notify, you click "hibernate" and you are good. And if it is time to make another order, app is woken up, so you cannot miss notifications by accident. Sure, it is not as good as having separate "show ads" toggle, but it requires no cooperation from app whatsoever,
- hairofadog 4y ago
  This is a great idea.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zamadatix 4y ago
  For Android I think the only thing needed for this is for disabled apps to show as grayed out in the launcher instead of hidden. I wonder if that's information available to launchers or only available in the system app menu.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    On Android, paused apps turn gray on the home screen and in the app drawer. However there's sometimes a delay of ~10 seconds before it happens
    - zamadatix 4y ago
      Interesting, which launcher is that with? Trebuchet? Using Nova they just disappear for me which is... not exactly convenient for turning them back on lol.
      - 4y ago
superb-owl 4y ago
It seems like every new communication channel follows the same basic pattern (phone, email, SMS, push notifications, ...). It starts with friend-to-friend communication, but quickly commercial entities realize there's an opportunity to connect with customers. They usually start with something small and helpful, but before long you're overrun with spam. I'm counting the days until my flashlight app tells me I've won a free cruise.
cproctor 4y ago
This is when you email the company's head of marketing and/or security expressing naive concern about hacking/phishing. "I received an email that looked like it's from your company, but I know it's not real because I didn't sign up for any of your lists."
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  When I receive unsolicited marketing email I will often intentionally not unsubscribe and instead set up a rule (now that I know the sender address or some way to reliably identify their spam) to redirect any future messages to someone high up at their company or their GDPR data protection officer.
hericium 4y ago
I wish iOS had some "allow notifications from this app for x minutes" option similar to "share location once". Uber is a good example of an app I would like to see notifications from, when using their service, but disabled them completely. Uber abuses this feature to show ad banners for scooters or food when I am not using their app and it's not even open (as in not present on the open applications list).
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Uber is one of the worst. You can turn off all notifications unrelated to your existing rides. They hide this in the app under: Settings, Privacy, Notifications. Lyft has the same hidden structure.
  - hericium 4y ago
    Thanks! Will try it out.
    - hackernewds 4y ago
      Android let's you disable notifications by category. Since users disable notifications completely, Uber is pretty good at categorizing notifications so you can turn them off. I still do like promotional offers so I have those redirected to email :)
- el-salvador 4y ago
  I've used Uber in several cities, so I get repetitive notifications targeting their different markets. Like irrelevant lunch discounts in other cities. They also have been sending me notifications for an Argentinan soccer-themed anti harassment campaign every couple of days. I went through their videos completely and the notification keeps showing. Its done in such a vertical video letterboxed in a horizontal video format that's hard to watch.
civilized 4y ago
I ban an app from ever sending me any notification the moment it sends me an unwelcome one. But it sounds like this is not an option for some apps other people use.
amenghra 4y ago
iOS feature request: only allow notifications for apps I used in the last 24h.
dguo 4y ago
My rule is: if I get a single notification that I find useless, I'll immediately disable that notification channel (I'm on Android; I'm not sure if iOS has a concept of channel-specific settings) for that app. Even if the channel can include useful notifications, as the article discusses. If the app doesn't bother to categorize its notifications into channels at all, I turn off its notifications entirely, and I won't turn it back on. If something is important enough, I can always manually check on it. My attention is too valuable to me to waste it on useless notifications. I do want more control over my notifications in general. I use Google Apps Script to automatically process/triage my email, and I want to do something similar with notifications. I can probably do so using Tasker, but I haven't gotten around to it.
- mikecoles 4y ago
  You are more kind than I am. After one spam notification, a one star review is left and the app is removed.
- xahrepap 4y ago
  I follow the same rule. But I will also then go one star review it. I will also one-star review any app that prompts me to review it by first asking me if I like it (sneaky sneaky!)
  - karmakaze 4y ago
    I'll go one step farther and uninstall it if I haven't used it recently or often.
    - weego 4y ago
      I'll go that one step further and cast my phone into a shallow grave, having salted the earth it's buried in so that nothing may grow there again.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
ajkjk 4y ago
I always relish in uninstalling apps when this happens but I hope they have stats somewhere that show: "oh, we sent this annoying marketing notification and an uninstall happens", and I hope some analyst is finding that pattern in their data and telling people about it. But I have to assume the answer is, 'probably not', given that nothing seems to change.
- b3morales 4y ago
  There's no uninstall event on iOS, and I believe the same is true of Android, so they won't see it directly. Disabling notifications is more likely to be noticed.
  - liminvorous 4y ago
    I believe some analytics frameworks used to send a silent push notification every day that made the app hit some endpoint, and becaues silent notifications can't be disabled that allowed them to measure uninstals. Apple may have fixed the security hole that allowed this, or told people to cut it out or they can't update their app anymore since I lasted looked into this though.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  You could always leave a nice honest review on the app store; that lets you be explicit and provides a clear signal.
- fmajid 4y ago
  Apple's push notification API would actually return a status code to the app if the app was uninstalled (that required opt-in from the user, though). They no longer do it, I believe.
- aendruk 4y ago
  When this happens I also make a point of leaving an appropriate review, not only as a more reliable method of closing the feedback loop but to provide a warning to other potential victims.
- 4y ago
anonymous_sorry 4y ago
Android apps can classify notifications into different categories that you can individually toggle. I haven't personally noticed a lot of abuse of this.
gingerlime 4y ago
There’s an iOS feature called time-sensitive notifications (which eg Uber uses). Unfortunately it’s a subset of notifications as a whole, so I can’t disable notifications and allow only time-sensitive ones :-/
jraph 4y ago
This is one of the many aspect of why it is important to have control on your computing device. Fight for it! (And yes, if I can't find an open source app for a service, I won't use it. I'm fine and very happy in my life, I don't miss any specific thing, and yes, no useless notification indeed. Try it!)
lysium 4y ago
I wish there was a fine grain control for Teams notifications. The amount of messages I get that do not need my immediate attention and/or could have been an email is astounding. I turned off notifications for Teams as a result and hope that people will call me if it is really urgent.
teh64 4y ago
While it is a quite a bit more work to get working correctly, I imagine you could cobble something together with iOs' focus modes [0] and shortcuts [1] automation (where shortcuts can change the focus mode). Just put everything you want all the time in allowed apps, and then disable the focus mode when the required notifications are needed. You can also automate "when app X is opened, select focus mode" [2], so maybe the workflow would be: When app with annoying notifications is opened (i.e. is needed), disable focus mode. Then reenable focus mode 1 hour later through automation. Still more annoying than having some kind of built in thing, but shortcuts does really enable fixing a lot of annoying things (especially in iOS[3]). [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212608 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212608 [1] https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios [2] https://www.howtogeek.com/676204/how-to-automatically-launch-shortcuts-when-you-open-an-app-on-iphone-or-ipad/ https://www.howtogeek.com/676204/how-to-automatically-launch... [3] why doesn't the quick action for bluetooth turn off bluetooth? so annoying. So I wrote an shortcuts button, that I click instead.
gpfunke 4y ago
I think a couple others have said this already, but I know when I was sending out push notifications at my previous job, you would add a "channel" for the notification for this exact reason. Then users could block that specific channel without blocking the really useful ones (at least on Android)
difosfor 4y ago
One of the downsides of living in a world where we don't pay for services but are instead ourselves the payment.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  The problem is that this also happens to paid products. You'd think that if you already pay money they should leave you alone, and yet there's a product manager, marketing or "growth" specialist that needs to justify their salary so even paid products aren't immune to that.
clumpthump 4y ago
I suspect some apps go too far in the other direction on purpose, having a large list of promotional notification types amidst useful ones so that people miss opting out of some or are too overwhelmed by the list that they decide not to bother, and whenever they add a "new" type of promotional notification, it's on by default until the user goes and disables it too.
bsedlm 4y ago
I don't wanna be opted-in by default into any notification generated by any automated process. only when a fellow human clicks (i.e. directly triggers) one action (intended to call my attention) should I be interrupted with a full notification by default. all notifications generated in bulk, by an automated script/bot, or as a side-effect of a human action need to be explicitly activated by me before they can interrupt me.
jerieljan 4y ago
I highly recommend installing Buzzkill for those on Android. In addition to built-in per-channel settings, Buzzkill allows you to create rules to auto-dismiss or do certain actions depending on the title or description of the notification, using basic matching or regex. It also gives you a nicer view of notification history, with more days and scrubbing across time if you ever want to revisit past notifications. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samruston.buzzkill&hl=en&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samruston....
- microflash 4y ago
  Buzzkill is a godsent and should be an OS feature. Setting rules on notifications, automated actions and a history has reduced the deluge of useless distractions for me. The app is proprietary and closed source though; it also uses Accessibility access. This might be a turn off for some threat models.
  - pwpw 4y ago
    I would love to help on building an open source alternative. Any clue on where to get started with documentation?
    - microflash 4y ago
      I've no idea. Although I've worked on Java for ages, Android programming never caught my interest. Maybe search for his to get started on Android and browse some open source projects to get a feel of this is your thing.
- ajolly 4y ago
  I like buzzkill, also check out FilterBox, Spren, and Notification Organizer. (Or tasker for raw power) I find each of them have their own little quirks.
- jbaber 4y ago
  Can't recommend buzzkill enough. I didl't notice how notifications had turned into e-mail until I got this spam filter. It's also wonderful for letting you bundle notifications (like family group texts) to be delivered every twelve hours.
pyrolistical 4y ago
Canadians can report this https://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/home https://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/home CASL isn’t just for emails, it’s for all forms of spam you didn’t opt into
- gmfawcett 4y ago
  Off-topic, but I haven't seen a .NSF URL in the wild for a long time. Apparently, Canada is fighting spam with Lotus/Domino!
punnerud 4y ago
Any way to subscribe to the notifications into Python or similar? So I can run my own custom filters before I decide what and when the notification should be delivered. Could also use the notifications to trigger automations.
- astockwell 4y ago
  This is an outstanding suggestion. Rife for abuse, but no more abuse than anything else.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  I don't think there's any way to access iOS notifications outside the device. If the notifications you care about are also available via email you can disable the official app's notifications and use email rules to redirect specific email notifications to something like Pushover, essentially rolling your own push notifications where you can use rules to control what gets through.
TedShiller 4y ago
Lyft does the same thing. I need the normal notifications ("Your driver will arrive in 2 minutes") but every few weeks they send me a promotional notification ("Rides are 20% off on Labor Day!") randomly.
- pfranz 4y ago
  Which means I leave the app Offloaded when I'm not using it and may not go through the friction to reinstall when I need a ride. Another comment here pointed out you can change it under the obvious /s location: Settings > Privacy > Notification Preferences > Discounts and News.
Helmut10001 4y ago
I have turned off all notifications, no sound on my phone either. If I happen to look at the phone while someone is calling, good - otherwise I'll call them back or write them.
- TedShiller 4y ago
  That's a really interesting strategy. Thanks for the tip. What about emergency calls? But then I just realized, those are extremely uncommon.
  - lozenge 4y ago
    https://support.google.com/android/answer/9069335?hl=en-GB#zippy=%2Cset-who-can-interrupt-you%2Cset-how-long-do-not-disturb-lasts https://support.google.com/android/answer/9069335?hl=en-GB#z... > Under 'What can interrupt Do Not Disturb', tap People: Calls: Repeat callers. To let a call through if the same person calls twice in 15 minutes, turn on Allow repeat callers.
    - TedShiller 4y ago
      Hah, spammers take note: always call twice in 15 minutes! Easy for them to automate.
    - Helmut10001 4y ago
      Nice, thanks! Maybe that could be a good addition, to catch the one exception in 10 years that really must get through.
tintor 4y ago
It is time for email spam filters to be applied to notifications.
falcolas 4y ago
Something that amazes me is that United’s app - freaking United FFS - is better behaved about this than most other apps.
fmajid 4y ago
Heh. I was woken up by an Uber greenwashing marketing notification. All notifications off (and in any case if I am waiting for a Uber I have the app on waiting for the countdown and I don't need the notifications anyway). If there were a viable competitor to them where I live, I would have deleted the app altogether and given them a 1-star rating. Apple's policies ban the use of push notifications for marketing purposes, but they don't enforce it nor do they provide a way for customers to report violation, so that policy is completely useless.
- deergomoo 4y ago
  > Apple's policies ban the use of push notifications for marketing purposes Not anymore, this was rolled back a year or two ago unfortunately. About the same time Apple themselves started using push notifications for marketing.
  - fmajid 4y ago
    I hadn't noticed, thanks for letting us now. Very poor decision (both rolling back the policy and spamming us with push notifications).
  - mawif 4y ago
    I think the relevant rule is section 4.5.4 of the App Store Review Guidelines: > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages. Abuse of these services may result in revocation of your privileges. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ So the language is weaker, but it should still be possible to disable marketing notifications. (Edit to add: and I report apps that don't provide that option, citing the above. So far, doing so hasn't achieved anything though.)
bambax 4y ago
I have very few apps, and all notifications turned off for all of them. I will check on new messages or info on my own time, thanks.
spideymans 4y ago
Apple rescinding the rule that banned promotional notifications is one of the worst UX decisions they’ve ever made.
cdubzzz 4y ago
> Better yet, it would be great to have some sort of “disable marketing notifications” inside the app. Given the current state of app distribution I’d rather have this _outside_ the app. Add an OS level toggle to enable or disable marketing notifications (system wide or app specific), force apps to categorize their notifications, and provide a mechanism to report bad actors. This problem creates a bad experience for all users so seems like it’s worth platform-level intervention.
makecheck 4y ago
The only way to really deter this stuff is to make it cost the sender something per spam. Bonus points if the user can feed back into the system to discourage truly unpopular notifications.
Havoc 4y ago
Yes. LinkedIn and Facebook being the worst. Even if there is nothing relevant they’ll just make something BS up just to remind you that they still exist. Yes LinkedIn I know I’ve got 11 notifications waiting but I also know they’ll all be more noise…and I know this without needing to check
wdr1 4y ago
Do apps report back how often notifications are turned off? I'm wondering if the people who are spamming notification have any insight into the damage they're causing -- and if they did, if that would incentive better behavior.
brk 4y ago
My general mindset is that I survived just fine before apps and notifications were a thing. If they provide truly useful information, I'll use them. If they become spammy or start trying to prod me to drive more engagement I'll disable, or delete, whatever is enabling that. If that means I delete the app, and possibly stop using the service altogether, so be it, I'm doing just fine.
- karamanolev 4y ago
  Many people here express that kind of sentiment and I find it either irrationally rebellious or just false. We all survived just fine before smartphones, internet, electricity and so on. Does it mean we can just delete and cancel big stuff over small annoyances? We'll end up deleting most of our lives. I don't find marketing notifications somehow more egregious than the million other anti-consumer behaviors companies show. It's a much better approach to fight those in a more targeted fashion, while still using the services and products we like or need. Please keep in mind that need is almost never "I will not survive (I will die) without it", but rather "My life is so much better with it, that a substantial investment in time/money/energy/suffering of annoyances is worth it".
  - aembleton 4y ago
    What notifications does Starbucks send that are so important? I've never used the app, but presumably you'd be in one of their coffee shops in order to get the coffee. If it notifies you when you need to collect it from the counter, why not just collect it when they call your name? I can't think of any other reason Starbucks would need to notify me.
bigmattystyles 4y ago
Whatever rule requires Hulu to display a little ad logo (I assume it’s a rule) when they’re on ad break, even the standard cable channel feeds, is great. It should apply to everything, including push notifications.
coding123 4y ago
First thing I do with all apps is disable all notifications for that app. The only exception is whatever app my workplace uses (Teams). For that I simply turn the ringer to silent so they can't vibrate the shit out of me. For those they just need to wait for me to look at my phone.
hackernewds 4y ago
One solution here is using an app like Daywise, that batches and delivers your notifications. Some are useful but doesn't need in the moment attention. Has massively reduced my screen time.
xnx 4y ago
Are there any Android utility apps that will route all notifications through a single proxy where I can apply my own app/category/keyword filters, and [ideally] inbox/archive of notifications? People criticize email, but I still find it the most user-friendly notification/messaging system. I wish for the type of control that I have in email over any other messaging/notification system (app alerts, Instagram messages, Slack notifications, etc.)
- chirag64 4y ago
  Yep, there is an app called AutoNotification that can help filter notifications similar to how one would in a Gmail filter.
nathanasmith 4y ago
It’s a shame there isn’t some kind of system wide filter for notifications using regular expressions or something. Probably a job for an Android ROM creator.
forgotmypw17 4y ago
I faced this issue while writing my application for online spaces... I noticed that I had written a feature called server notification, and was about to start using it to notify users of things which the server wanted them to know, but which they had not asked for. I decided to rename the feature internally to "server response notification", which implies that all of the notifications are in response to a user query. This helped me focus on what the feature should be used for.
Tepix 4y ago
Kaufda is guilty of this. When i complained a about their promotional push messages, they pretended not to know what i was talking about. I uninstalled the app which had been quite useful until that time.
znpy 4y ago
that's one of the reason i got rid of my samsung phone: it used to send random nonsense notifications, MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY. it would keep asking me to let samsung use my phone's cpu for whatever stuff they're doing, send multiple weather notification during the day (i didn't ever ask for them and now it's my job to go hunt for the appropriate setting to change to disable them? go f@@k yourself, you just lost a customer) and many more that i'm now thankfully forgetting.
frederikvs 4y ago
If an app gives me spammy promotional notifications, it either A) gets uninstalled (if I don't particularly care about the app), B) gets a 1-star review with a clear comment about the notifications, or C) all of the above. The app I use to pay for parking spots suddenly gave me a notification once, apparently to try and get me to park my car more often or something. I gave it a one-star review, never saw one of those notifications again :-) (Which reminds me, I should revise that review.)
- alkonaut 4y ago
  The problem is with businesses that are in some other business than the app business. For example the coffee business. It doesn't matter how good/bad the app is, usually the app wasn't why you chose their business, it was location, quality of a product etc. And it's their app or no app.
- aembleton 4y ago
  Can't you just disable notifications for the app? If you're on android you might just be able to disable the promotional notifications.
  - frederikvs 4y ago
    Yes, disabling promotional notifications is an option - except if the app developer applies the dark pattern described in the article. But even when it works, the app developer just goes on their merry way, annoying other people too. I believe it's better to send a signal, and educate developers about what we as users want.
kbos87 4y ago
This is literally what drove me away from Facebook, completely. Their constant “redesigning” of notification and privacy settings was a veiled effort to force whatever notifications in front of me. There are certain notifications I want from you Facebook, but you made a grave miscalculation when you thought I’d put up with everything else you threw at me. So here I am, a Facebook user since 2007(?) who pretty much walked away in 2019 and has barely been back.
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  User since 2006, ran away in 2006. Not been back. Dodged a bayraktar, there. *though i am somewhat annoyed that i cant use whatsapp, as a result. WA seems like a great app, just owned by a company i can't support.
- aembleton 4y ago
  What notifications do you want from Facebook? Messenger notifications makes sense but anything else can wait until you look at Facebook. Messenger is a separate app, so it can be managed separately
prymitive 4y ago
I made the mistake of buying Eufy camera and the app is basically an sales channel spamming you with ads on every occasion. If you contact support and complain about it they will disable popus for you but the app is still full of spam and animated icons inviting you to buy something. They clearly have zero respect for customers.
Sausagemancer 4y ago
My Bluetooth Blood-pressure cuff does this. Useful notification: Reminding me to measure my blood pressure twice per day, giving me a notification that I can tap to begin a measurement. Not useful notifications: Telling me that I have a "new insight available", which when tapped takes me to a prompt to "upgrade to a new premium feature. I guess if you need to upsell me on a service after I've spent >$200 for your device I can use a different reminders app and be slightly inconvenienced twice a day.
pronik 4y ago
I have a somewhat similar gripe about apps, which has some recent implications: there seems to be some school of thought for engagement, which suggests that something that's not used at least weekly is useless. For this reason Google started automatically removing permissions from apps I didn't use for some time and it's also suggested I could delete them "to save space" which is frankly quite stupid -- I have quite a lot of apps which I only intend to use when needed, but I need them installed and ready. A perfect example are emergency apps -- I do not intend for my car to break down every couple of weeks, but when it does, I need the emergency services app. I don't want to open the desaster warning app consciously, but I want it to warn me when something happens, be it today or in three years. Don't judge the app by its daily usage time please.
- twic 4y ago
  Sadly, features aren't added to Android because they're good for users, they're added because they'll look good in someone's promotion packet.
  - NullPrefix 4y ago
    Well whoever came up with this crap needs to be demoted
- hiq 4y ago
  I think that's indeed the default behavior, but when I go to a certain app permissions, I have an option "remove permissions and free up space", if I untick this I expect the permissions to stay in place, is that not the case?
cheriot 4y ago
This is doubly bad when the notification is on my watch. Looking at you, Uber. There's a fair number of apps I'd happily enable useful notifications on, but don't because they send marketing crap.
navjack27 4y ago
It's cool cuz on my Pixel 5 most of my notifications that I want I don't get in a timely fashion and the ones I don't want are just disabled anyway. I just want notifications to work at all.
sourabhv 4y ago
These companies boast so much about their prowess in AI, but can't differentiate between a transactional and promotional message?
celeritascelery 4y ago
This is out of reach for most people, but what I would love is to be able to define a regex per app that will let me filter notifications. Give control back to the users.
hellisothers 4y ago
Technically Apple says if you want to send promotional notifications you have to ask for that permission explicitly and offer the user a way to turn just those notification types on/off. Maybe complain FWIW https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/ios/system-capabilities/notifications https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...
- meatmanek 4y ago
  I'm a little surprised iOS doesn't have a way to report a notification as spam.
polotics 4y ago
This post really lost me at: "and I’m sure they’re getting that many more engagements because of it" clearly what spam notifications do is make me question having installed the app in the first place. For me this has led to many uninstalls.
jrockway 4y ago
Every notification system eventually becomes email. What that means is that we probably need OS-level spam filters so that you can report things as spam. If the notification looks spammy based on the training, it simply won't show up. Marketers think they're reaching you, an army of software engineers remained employed to figure out how to refactor the API to send notifications with the V3 protocol or whatever unnecessary change the OS vendor made this week (driving up every other software engineer's salary; thank you!), but you don't have to be woken up by the latest not-actually-a-very-good-deal. Whether or not the notification was delivered or blocked by the filter probably shouldn't be fed back to the application, to stave off the inevitable workarounds. But people will test stuff on their own devices and find workarounds. "Your order has arrived! Tap for details." But when you tap it's just an ad. On the other hand, it would be nice for things like Pagerduty to know that all of their notifications were blocked and that they should escalate to the next person on the rotation. The "mark as spam" data should be fed back to the app stores, and if the app requested status notification privilege and not marketing notification privileges, their app is pulled until they fix it. (Cannot wait to read the whining about that. "I'm just trying to hustle like some blog post from 30 years ago said I should! <crying face emoji>") In the meantime, I don't really ever turn on app notifications. They usually email me, and what's great about email is I have the Spam folder and the Promotions tab, so I never see most of their communications.
- Anunayj 4y ago
  This is a great idea honestly, and definitely possible on android without root, causal search gives me a app that already tries to do this [1]. Though giving notification permission to a closed source app that may send notifications to a remote server for "AI magic" seems bad. If anyone knows of a good open source implementation, be my guest. There is also this thing on Android Issue tracker [2] 1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.notification.cleaner&hl=en_IN&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.notificati... 2. https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/226161368?pli=1 https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/226161368?pli=1
- deleted 4y ago
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- 4y ago
adrianmonk 4y ago
On Android, they tried to improve this by adding notification channels[1] (aka categories). Channels are mandatory, and users can turn each channel on/off in system settings. The problem is few apps assign meaningful or useful channels. Instead: (1) Some apps use the dark UI pattern of putting important notifications and junk/spam notifications together in one channel. They use the ones you do want as leverage to make you see the ones you don't want. (2) With some apps, they just don't make an effort. For example, the JustWatch app has two channels: "Default" and "Miscellaneous". The KAYAK app has two channels; one is called "Offers & promotions", and the other is also called "Offers & promotions". (3) Defining useful, meaningful channels is actually a bit of a UI challenge. Some apps try but don't divide things up in a useful way. The Meetup app has a ton of channels, including 12 at the top level and 3 for each Meetup group that you're a member of. They made an effort, and it helps some, but it's a bit overwhelming. --- [1] https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels
nraynaud 4y ago
Amazon notified me that they thought I might like to buy a new stove.
mortenjorck 4y ago
While Apple should be able to enforce this at an App Store level, it seems to me there’s a pretty simple heuristic that could be applied as a per-app notification setting: “Mute notifications if I haven’t used this app in more than 24 hours” That ought to catch the majority of notification abuse, and to tighten it even further, the inactivity periods could be configurable (24, 8, 2 hours, etc).
alexyim 4y ago
It unfortunately seems like our best chance is to wait until Apple cracks down on this, as self interested companies won't.
prepend 4y ago
There’s asshole companies and cool companies. Asshole companies send marketing notifications when people sign up for useful notifications. Companies on the edge default to on but at least let you turn off notifications. Asshole companies can still be useful. I use UberEats but have their notifications turned off. I’ll also add that I’m amazed that after using an iPhone for 15 years, I’ve never gotten a spam push from Apple. And their temptation must be great.
hateful 4y ago
It once again comes down to the fact that we are the product, not the customer. In this article, Devin Booker is the customer. Also, after reading many comments with suggestions and hacks to work around this (which I also do, btw), I think we may be missing the point, our time is valuable, and if we've all just spent half a day figuring out how to get the proper applications from a single app on our phone, we've already paid the price - and it's not right.
- aembleton 4y ago
  It doesn't take half a day to disable notifications!
misterpigs 4y ago
WAG is so shitty about this. I absolutely need notifications but they constantly nag you.
karolzlot 4y ago
"Notification Remover" Android app allows to automatically dismiss some notifications but not others, based on user-defined filters. I use it and it works really well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31636602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31636602 From app description: "Notifications will be cleaned automatically based on your input. Select the package name of an app and enter the message text (regular expression) of the annoying notification and you'll never see it again." It however lacks ability to export / import filters so they need to be created manually. Also the app is not longer updated. I hope at some point somebody will create open-source clone of it with more features.
wombat-man 4y ago
It's not perfect but if they're using something like Braze you can block it by using a dns ad block like nextdns. Then you should only get notifications triggered by app logic and not by 3rd party marketing CMS whatever solutions.
diebeforei485 4y ago
Apple has lost the moral high ground because they decided to spam everyone with notifications for revenue-generating services like Apple Pay, Apple Music, Apple TV+ etc in order to increase their services revenue. This also means they can't effectively enforce App Store guideline 4.5.4, which says: ... Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI...
- wodenokoto 4y ago
  I agree. One of the reasons why Apple says they need a walled garden approach is to ensure that we don't get spammed with promotional push notifications. So if they aren't protecting users, and are themselves sending us promotions, then they have one less argument for a walled garden app store approach.
ko3us 4y ago
Apps should allow for low level notification management. This allows the personalisation for notifications. Eg https://imgur.com/a/RSNu0Km https://imgur.com/a/RSNu0Km
Dwedit 4y ago
I think there's a possible solution. Something like "Hide all notifications 5 hours after you last used the app". 5 hours could be enough time to do anything that the app needs to notify you for, then the marketing notifications come out of the blue 2 weeks later.
ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
Everyone is focused on phones, but I've experienced this in Windows. There is a Korean office suite (Hancom Office) which updates 3-5 times per day, ringing the notification bell in Win10 each time regardless of current user focus. (User is in full screen movie? Ring the bell. Skype call? Ring the bell ...)
cy_overlord 4y ago
It would be interesting to see the story from the other side, like how effective are these promotional notifications.
CamelRocketFish 4y ago
Promotional notifications are required to be opt-in as per the App Store review terms. Please report apps if they are not following this.
ztjio 4y ago
I don't know when (or even if) it changed, but, using notifications for ads/promotion on iOS used to be a dev terms violation. I really miss that era.
thunkshift1 4y ago
This is a fairly straight forward expectation. That app developers have to be explicitly made aware of this through a public blog post is kind of shameful. It clearly shows to what extent they are ready to abuse user attention and how little they care about end user. This is just another example in a looong list of things which point to a steady erosion of end user control on things and how they are being reduced to agents optimizing metrics that matter for my app/product.

462 points by otras 4y ago

emsy 4y ago

Isn’t the justification of Apple that they have a monopoly on the App Store so they can protect users from notification abuse? In reality this is not enforced at all and even Apple themselves will send you ads.

tsuujin 4y ago
No? The walled garden is a safeguard against malicious apps, not against marketing shenanigans.
- emsy 4y ago
  They explicitly state in their developer agreement not to use notifications for ads.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    That rule (and plenty of other rules such as the privacy disclosures being incorrect) isn't enforced and I'm not even sure where to report such violations. App Store rules are only enforced when it's convenient for Apple or their partners.
  - tsuujin 4y ago
    This changed a couple of years ago, apps can send you ads so long as you opt in, but what qualifies as opting in can be as simple as a bit of language during signup; it’s pretty easy to bypass this. > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app's UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages. Abuse of these services may result in revocation of your privileges. From: https://www.imore.com/apples-updated-developer-guidelines-now-allow-ads-push-notifications https://www.imore.com/apples-updated-developer-guidelines-no...
    - emsy 4y ago
      I stand somewhat corrected, but you have to admit that rule has never really been enforced.
      - tsuujin 4y ago
        I think we’ll need actual regulation before we see any enforcement, unfortunately. Because Apple takes a cut of app profits, they’re incentivized to allow for scummy engagement practices. We need something like the CAN-SPAM (which as for emails) to classify transactional vs marketing/engagement notifications and a way to levy fines on violations.
Juicyy 4y ago
Better yet, Apple sends me news notifications for apple news that you have to pay for.... Who the fuck thinks its a good idea to send you notifications blocked behind a paywall... cant even comprehend the logic in the microtransaction, pay to win, notifications, paywall bullshit we see in mobile, tech, gaming, etc. I have had enough. Literally just deleted all that stuff. All i need is VScode and youtube.

midislack 4y ago

Your smart phone is a store and you're the product. It's that simple.

samwhiteUK 4y ago

> like if there was an option when long-pressing the app on the home screen to quickly enable or disable notifications Nice idea

deleted 4y ago

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serverlessmom 4y ago

This is interesting to me. I'm extremely frustrated by meal delivery apps, where I need the notifications on to know when my food is here, but hate getting promotional ads at random We're working on tools to help developers send notifications more easily at https://www.courier.com/ https://www.courier.com/, and working on tools like automations to hopefully make notifications a bit smarter and less spammy.

silversub 4y ago

I’ve started treating my phone like a firewall using do not disturb. Whitelist (aka favorite) the phone numbers I care about. I will temporarily take off do not disturb when using Uber/Lyft. I don’t really have a need to be notified by any other app.

dahart 4y ago

In email land, the terms for helpful vs promotional are "transactional email" for the helpful stuff (e.g., https://mailchimp.com/help/about-transactional-email/ https://mailchimp.com/help/about-transactional-email/) and "marketing email" for the promotional ones. There are channels to report abuse if it's bad, not to mention just leaving reviews and mentioning why.

webmobdev 4y ago
Had similar ideas - I share the author's frustration in India, the delivery apps and banking apps are the worst culprits. I wonder if the regulators can be asked to extend the "Do Not Call" registry to include barring such app notifications? For example, the National Do Not Call Registry in my country has now been renamed to National Customer Preference Register (NCPR). This now gives indians more fine-grained options to choose what kind of marketing calls we want to bar or receive: > “Transactional message” means a message triggered by a transaction performed by the subscriber, who is also the sender’s customer, provided such a message is sent within 30 minutes of the transaction being performed and is directly related to it. Provided that the transaction may be a banking transaction, delivery of OTP, purchase of goods or services, etc. ... “Unsolicited commercial communication or UCC” means any commercial communication that is neither as per the consent nor as per registered preference(s) of recipient, but shall not include: (i)Any transactional message or transactional voice call ... Source: TRAI regulation - https://trai.gov.in/sites/default/files/DraftUCCRegulation29052018.pdf https://trai.gov.in/sites/default/files/DraftUCCRegulation29... They can extend this to mobile OS notifications and ask Google, Apple, Samsung etc. (mobile OS makers) to ensure that all promotional messages through such notifications are blocked, and only "transactional messages" are allowed.
floren 4y ago
Expedia is really bad about calling all their promotions "transactional emails". You see, once upon a time in the distant past, I used Expedia, so based on that transaction surely I care deeply about how "A more rewarding travel experience is coming in February": http://jfloren.net/content/expedia.png http://jfloren.net/content/expedia.png

ianbutler 4y ago

I was saying this yesterday, LinkedIn, as an example, sends me the most inane notifications as do many apps trying to steal my time. I pay LinkedIn 100 dollars a month, those notifications should serve me, not the other way around. I really don't care about some low substance content written by someone who I'm neither connected with nor follow.

b112 4y ago
I was on the fence about a premium account, but thanks for this info.
- kmonsen 4y ago
  What's the draw of premium? Cannot see anything there that would be more then marginal useful for me.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    I believe if you do too many searches in a month they force you onto premium.
  - b112 4y ago
    They claim all sorts of wondrous benefits, and have a free trial. Figured I'd try it and see, but not if it is going to be an abusive relationship.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    It's completely useless, don't waste your time. The UI is just as slow & terrible, all the dark patterns and ads are still there even if you pay.
  - DoctorDabadedoo 4y ago
    You're able to directly message people that are not your friends and see who saw your profile (no matter their privacy configuration, I believe). For me that's about it. Useful if you are job hunting, but nothing to go crazy over. Honestly, the only thing keeping me on LinkedIn is FOMO of that spectacular job that a recruiter might reach out about, but reality is that this doesn't happen at all for positions worth their salt.

gondo 4y ago

Revolut is doing this and it infuriates me. I want the payment notifications, not the promotional, gamification spam.

night-rider 4y ago

I only care about NO notifications. Disabling all notifications is the first step to more saner approaches to technology. I turned my digital life into a pull medium where I check SMS messages etc when I want to, and not having real-time notifications of every little event gives me more peace. It’s a form of digital veganism that I employ. Turn your digital life into pull mediums instead of push.

p49k 4y ago
The subject of the article is about apps bundling time sensitive notifications that you can’t realistically disable with promotions. You can turn off most notifications for a calmer life, but when you order an Uber you need to know if it’s arriving or if the driver sent you an important message.
- technothrasher 4y ago
  Granted I don't live in an urban area and so don't use these apps all the much, but typically when I want an Uber or to order something with Doordash, or whatever, I'll install the app only long enough to use the service, and then uninstall it. And my rule for apps that stay on my phone (and there are not many) is that they get one chance. The first promotion notification I get, either all notifications get disabled or the app gets uninstalled.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Keeping the app in foreground or checking it every few minutes is usually not too big of a deal in my experience.
theamk 4y ago
I think this only works when you are alone. Once you miss a few important notifications from your friends/spouse/kids/parents, like "the place A was closed, we went to B", you'll want to reconsider.
samwillis 4y ago
Same here, have turned off all app notifications. Email set to only notify for a short list of about 10-15 people who I regularly communicate with.

grose 4y ago

I've noticed this in social networks as well. If you don't get enough transactional notifications for a while they start making up fake ones like Twitter's "in case you missed this Tweet", Facebook's "[someone] posted for the first time in a while", all the while lighting up the notifications badge. Leads to a "boy who cried wolf" scenario in which I stop trusting notifications entirely and just ignore them, possibly missing out on actual useful ones. I really wish companies let us turn this kind of thing off, or better yet stopped trying to boost "engagement" numbers by violating your user's trust.

technothrasher 4y ago
I don't know if Facebook still does this, as I've completely nuked it from my life, but when I had an account I asked it to turn off all email notifications. But if I didn't log on to Facebook after about two weeks I would get an email saying they were concerned I would miss out and so they helpfully turned email notifications back on for me.
- wincy 4y ago
  I didn’t use Facebook for a few years and they sent me a completely fake account security notification. I was super mad about it.
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  Sometimes when they created a new feature (eg. Groups), they would email everyone about activity on it even if email notifications were off.
rapind 4y ago
Apple kept a notification badge on my settings icon for Apple Pay until I finally went in and opted out of it. Under the guise of “Finish setting up your iPhone”. It’s not a big deal I guess, but annoying and obviously promotional. Now I partially associate Apple with intentionally annoying.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

sumthinprofound 4y ago

Grubhub does this as well, so all of their notifications are disabled by me.

rutierut 4y ago

As someone who travels a bit I’ve got quite some food delivery and ride share apps on my phone. The marketing notifications are driving me crazy, I regularly miss relevant notifications because Grab, Uber, Uber Eats, Glovo, Bolt, and Cabify are all sending me almost daily notifications with some sort of cringe content trying to nudge me to take a cab/order food. Especially Uber Eats and Glovo are bad.

clumpthump 4y ago
It's definitely annoying that users can't opt-in only to the types of notifications they want on installation, but Uber and Uber Eats are not guilty of what Starbucks is doing in the article (at least on Android); you can disable all notifications besides "Taking a Ride" and "Your Order" notifications.
aembleton 4y ago
Disable notifications for them. It's not a perfect solution but it will make your life calmer. Just re enable them when you need to use Über or on Android just disable the promotional notifications

theamk 4y ago

I have a pretty good idea on how to fix this (and many similar) problems: "hibernate app" option. Its a new app state where app icon icon has some mark (like being semi-grayed out) and all the background app services are disabled (tracking, promotional popups, periodic wakeups, etc...). The app is only un-hibernated if user explicitly clicks on it, it cannot do it by itself. The app can be hibernated by long-press menu on app icon or notification. So the first time you get an ad notify, you click "hibernate" and you are good. And if it is time to make another order, app is woken up, so you cannot miss notifications by accident. Sure, it is not as good as having separate "show ads" toggle, but it requires no cooperation from app whatsoever,

hairofadog 4y ago
This is a great idea.
deleted 4y ago
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zamadatix 4y ago
For Android I think the only thing needed for this is for disabled apps to show as grayed out in the launcher instead of hidden. I wonder if that's information available to launchers or only available in the system app menu.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  On Android, paused apps turn gray on the home screen and in the app drawer. However there's sometimes a delay of ~10 seconds before it happens
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    Interesting, which launcher is that with? Trebuchet? Using Nova they just disappear for me which is... not exactly convenient for turning them back on lol.
    - 4y ago

superb-owl 4y ago

It seems like every new communication channel follows the same basic pattern (phone, email, SMS, push notifications, ...). It starts with friend-to-friend communication, but quickly commercial entities realize there's an opportunity to connect with customers. They usually start with something small and helpful, but before long you're overrun with spam. I'm counting the days until my flashlight app tells me I've won a free cruise.

cproctor 4y ago

This is when you email the company's head of marketing and/or security expressing naive concern about hacking/phishing. "I received an email that looked like it's from your company, but I know it's not real because I didn't sign up for any of your lists."

Nextgrid 4y ago
When I receive unsolicited marketing email I will often intentionally not unsubscribe and instead set up a rule (now that I know the sender address or some way to reliably identify their spam) to redirect any future messages to someone high up at their company or their GDPR data protection officer.

hericium 4y ago

I wish iOS had some "allow notifications from this app for x minutes" option similar to "share location once". Uber is a good example of an app I would like to see notifications from, when using their service, but disabled them completely. Uber abuses this feature to show ad banners for scooters or food when I am not using their app and it's not even open (as in not present on the open applications list).

gnicholas 4y ago
Uber is one of the worst. You can turn off all notifications unrelated to your existing rides. They hide this in the app under: Settings, Privacy, Notifications. Lyft has the same hidden structure.
- hericium 4y ago
  Thanks! Will try it out.
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    Android let's you disable notifications by category. Since users disable notifications completely, Uber is pretty good at categorizing notifications so you can turn them off. I still do like promotional offers so I have those redirected to email :)
el-salvador 4y ago
I've used Uber in several cities, so I get repetitive notifications targeting their different markets. Like irrelevant lunch discounts in other cities. They also have been sending me notifications for an Argentinan soccer-themed anti harassment campaign every couple of days. I went through their videos completely and the notification keeps showing. Its done in such a vertical video letterboxed in a horizontal video format that's hard to watch.

civilized 4y ago

I ban an app from ever sending me any notification the moment it sends me an unwelcome one. But it sounds like this is not an option for some apps other people use.

amenghra 4y ago

iOS feature request: only allow notifications for apps I used in the last 24h.

dguo 4y ago

My rule is: if I get a single notification that I find useless, I'll immediately disable that notification channel (I'm on Android; I'm not sure if iOS has a concept of channel-specific settings) for that app. Even if the channel can include useful notifications, as the article discusses. If the app doesn't bother to categorize its notifications into channels at all, I turn off its notifications entirely, and I won't turn it back on. If something is important enough, I can always manually check on it. My attention is too valuable to me to waste it on useless notifications. I do want more control over my notifications in general. I use Google Apps Script to automatically process/triage my email, and I want to do something similar with notifications. I can probably do so using Tasker, but I haven't gotten around to it.

mikecoles 4y ago
You are more kind than I am. After one spam notification, a one star review is left and the app is removed.
xahrepap 4y ago
I follow the same rule. But I will also then go one star review it. I will also one-star review any app that prompts me to review it by first asking me if I like it (sneaky sneaky!)
- karmakaze 4y ago
  I'll go one step farther and uninstall it if I haven't used it recently or often.
  - weego 4y ago
    I'll go that one step further and cast my phone into a shallow grave, having salted the earth it's buried in so that nothing may grow there again.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

ajkjk 4y ago

I always relish in uninstalling apps when this happens but I hope they have stats somewhere that show: "oh, we sent this annoying marketing notification and an uninstall happens", and I hope some analyst is finding that pattern in their data and telling people about it. But I have to assume the answer is, 'probably not', given that nothing seems to change.

b3morales 4y ago
There's no uninstall event on iOS, and I believe the same is true of Android, so they won't see it directly. Disabling notifications is more likely to be noticed.
- liminvorous 4y ago
  I believe some analytics frameworks used to send a silent push notification every day that made the app hit some endpoint, and becaues silent notifications can't be disabled that allowed them to measure uninstals. Apple may have fixed the security hole that allowed this, or told people to cut it out or they can't update their app anymore since I lasted looked into this though.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
You could always leave a nice honest review on the app store; that lets you be explicit and provides a clear signal.
fmajid 4y ago
Apple's push notification API would actually return a status code to the app if the app was uninstalled (that required opt-in from the user, though). They no longer do it, I believe.
aendruk 4y ago
When this happens I also make a point of leaving an appropriate review, not only as a more reliable method of closing the feedback loop but to provide a warning to other potential victims.
4y ago

anonymous_sorry 4y ago

Android apps can classify notifications into different categories that you can individually toggle. I haven't personally noticed a lot of abuse of this.

gingerlime 4y ago

There’s an iOS feature called time-sensitive notifications (which eg Uber uses). Unfortunately it’s a subset of notifications as a whole, so I can’t disable notifications and allow only time-sensitive ones :-/

jraph 4y ago

This is one of the many aspect of why it is important to have control on your computing device. Fight for it! (And yes, if I can't find an open source app for a service, I won't use it. I'm fine and very happy in my life, I don't miss any specific thing, and yes, no useless notification indeed. Try it!)

lysium 4y ago

I wish there was a fine grain control for Teams notifications. The amount of messages I get that do not need my immediate attention and/or could have been an email is astounding. I turned off notifications for Teams as a result and hope that people will call me if it is really urgent.

teh64 4y ago

While it is a quite a bit more work to get working correctly, I imagine you could cobble something together with iOs' focus modes [0] and shortcuts [1] automation (where shortcuts can change the focus mode). Just put everything you want all the time in allowed apps, and then disable the focus mode when the required notifications are needed. You can also automate "when app X is opened, select focus mode" [2], so maybe the workflow would be: When app with annoying notifications is opened (i.e. is needed), disable focus mode. Then reenable focus mode 1 hour later through automation. Still more annoying than having some kind of built in thing, but shortcuts does really enable fixing a lot of annoying things (especially in iOS[3]). [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212608 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212608 [1] https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios [2] https://www.howtogeek.com/676204/how-to-automatically-launch-shortcuts-when-you-open-an-app-on-iphone-or-ipad/ https://www.howtogeek.com/676204/how-to-automatically-launch... [3] why doesn't the quick action for bluetooth turn off bluetooth? so annoying. So I wrote an shortcuts button, that I click instead.

gpfunke 4y ago

I think a couple others have said this already, but I know when I was sending out push notifications at my previous job, you would add a "channel" for the notification for this exact reason. Then users could block that specific channel without blocking the really useful ones (at least on Android)

difosfor 4y ago

One of the downsides of living in a world where we don't pay for services but are instead ourselves the payment.

Nextgrid 4y ago
The problem is that this also happens to paid products. You'd think that if you already pay money they should leave you alone, and yet there's a product manager, marketing or "growth" specialist that needs to justify their salary so even paid products aren't immune to that.

clumpthump 4y ago

I suspect some apps go too far in the other direction on purpose, having a large list of promotional notification types amidst useful ones so that people miss opting out of some or are too overwhelmed by the list that they decide not to bother, and whenever they add a "new" type of promotional notification, it's on by default until the user goes and disables it too.

bsedlm 4y ago

I don't wanna be opted-in by default into any notification generated by any automated process. only when a fellow human clicks (i.e. directly triggers) one action (intended to call my attention) should I be interrupted with a full notification by default. all notifications generated in bulk, by an automated script/bot, or as a side-effect of a human action need to be explicitly activated by me before they can interrupt me.

jerieljan 4y ago

I highly recommend installing Buzzkill for those on Android. In addition to built-in per-channel settings, Buzzkill allows you to create rules to auto-dismiss or do certain actions depending on the title or description of the notification, using basic matching or regex. It also gives you a nicer view of notification history, with more days and scrubbing across time if you ever want to revisit past notifications. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samruston.buzzkill&hl=en&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samruston....

microflash 4y ago
Buzzkill is a godsent and should be an OS feature. Setting rules on notifications, automated actions and a history has reduced the deluge of useless distractions for me. The app is proprietary and closed source though; it also uses Accessibility access. This might be a turn off for some threat models.
- pwpw 4y ago
  I would love to help on building an open source alternative. Any clue on where to get started with documentation?
  - microflash 4y ago
    I've no idea. Although I've worked on Java for ages, Android programming never caught my interest. Maybe search for his to get started on Android and browse some open source projects to get a feel of this is your thing.
ajolly 4y ago
I like buzzkill, also check out FilterBox, Spren, and Notification Organizer. (Or tasker for raw power) I find each of them have their own little quirks.
jbaber 4y ago
Can't recommend buzzkill enough. I didl't notice how notifications had turned into e-mail until I got this spam filter. It's also wonderful for letting you bundle notifications (like family group texts) to be delivered every twelve hours.

pyrolistical 4y ago

Canadians can report this https://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/home https://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/home CASL isn’t just for emails, it’s for all forms of spam you didn’t opt into

gmfawcett 4y ago
Off-topic, but I haven't seen a .NSF URL in the wild for a long time. Apparently, Canada is fighting spam with Lotus/Domino!

punnerud 4y ago

Any way to subscribe to the notifications into Python or similar? So I can run my own custom filters before I decide what and when the notification should be delivered. Could also use the notifications to trigger automations.

astockwell 4y ago
This is an outstanding suggestion. Rife for abuse, but no more abuse than anything else.
Nextgrid 4y ago
I don't think there's any way to access iOS notifications outside the device. If the notifications you care about are also available via email you can disable the official app's notifications and use email rules to redirect specific email notifications to something like Pushover, essentially rolling your own push notifications where you can use rules to control what gets through.

TedShiller 4y ago

Lyft does the same thing. I need the normal notifications ("Your driver will arrive in 2 minutes") but every few weeks they send me a promotional notification ("Rides are 20% off on Labor Day!") randomly.

pfranz 4y ago
Which means I leave the app Offloaded when I'm not using it and may not go through the friction to reinstall when I need a ride. Another comment here pointed out you can change it under the obvious /s location: Settings > Privacy > Notification Preferences > Discounts and News.

Helmut10001 4y ago

I have turned off all notifications, no sound on my phone either. If I happen to look at the phone while someone is calling, good - otherwise I'll call them back or write them.

TedShiller 4y ago
That's a really interesting strategy. Thanks for the tip. What about emergency calls? But then I just realized, those are extremely uncommon.
- lozenge 4y ago
  https://support.google.com/android/answer/9069335?hl=en-GB#zippy=%2Cset-who-can-interrupt-you%2Cset-how-long-do-not-disturb-lasts https://support.google.com/android/answer/9069335?hl=en-GB#z... > Under 'What can interrupt Do Not Disturb', tap People: Calls: Repeat callers. To let a call through if the same person calls twice in 15 minutes, turn on Allow repeat callers.
  - TedShiller 4y ago
    Hah, spammers take note: always call twice in 15 minutes! Easy for them to automate.
  - Helmut10001 4y ago
    Nice, thanks! Maybe that could be a good addition, to catch the one exception in 10 years that really must get through.

tintor 4y ago

It is time for email spam filters to be applied to notifications.

falcolas 4y ago

Something that amazes me is that United’s app - freaking United FFS - is better behaved about this than most other apps.

fmajid 4y ago

Heh. I was woken up by an Uber greenwashing marketing notification. All notifications off (and in any case if I am waiting for a Uber I have the app on waiting for the countdown and I don't need the notifications anyway). If there were a viable competitor to them where I live, I would have deleted the app altogether and given them a 1-star rating. Apple's policies ban the use of push notifications for marketing purposes, but they don't enforce it nor do they provide a way for customers to report violation, so that policy is completely useless.

deergomoo 4y ago
> Apple's policies ban the use of push notifications for marketing purposes Not anymore, this was rolled back a year or two ago unfortunately. About the same time Apple themselves started using push notifications for marketing.
- fmajid 4y ago
  I hadn't noticed, thanks for letting us now. Very poor decision (both rolling back the policy and spamming us with push notifications).
- mawif 4y ago
  I think the relevant rule is section 4.5.4 of the App Store Review Guidelines: > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages. Abuse of these services may result in revocation of your privileges. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ So the language is weaker, but it should still be possible to disable marketing notifications. (Edit to add: and I report apps that don't provide that option, citing the above. So far, doing so hasn't achieved anything though.)

bambax 4y ago

I have very few apps, and all notifications turned off for all of them. I will check on new messages or info on my own time, thanks.

spideymans 4y ago

Apple rescinding the rule that banned promotional notifications is one of the worst UX decisions they’ve ever made.

cdubzzz 4y ago

> Better yet, it would be great to have some sort of “disable marketing notifications” inside the app. Given the current state of app distribution I’d rather have this _outside_ the app. Add an OS level toggle to enable or disable marketing notifications (system wide or app specific), force apps to categorize their notifications, and provide a mechanism to report bad actors. This problem creates a bad experience for all users so seems like it’s worth platform-level intervention.

makecheck 4y ago

The only way to really deter this stuff is to make it cost the sender something per spam. Bonus points if the user can feed back into the system to discourage truly unpopular notifications.

Havoc 4y ago

Yes. LinkedIn and Facebook being the worst. Even if there is nothing relevant they’ll just make something BS up just to remind you that they still exist. Yes LinkedIn I know I’ve got 11 notifications waiting but I also know they’ll all be more noise…and I know this without needing to check

wdr1 4y ago

Do apps report back how often notifications are turned off? I'm wondering if the people who are spamming notification have any insight into the damage they're causing -- and if they did, if that would incentive better behavior.

brk 4y ago

My general mindset is that I survived just fine before apps and notifications were a thing. If they provide truly useful information, I'll use them. If they become spammy or start trying to prod me to drive more engagement I'll disable, or delete, whatever is enabling that. If that means I delete the app, and possibly stop using the service altogether, so be it, I'm doing just fine.

karamanolev 4y ago
Many people here express that kind of sentiment and I find it either irrationally rebellious or just false. We all survived just fine before smartphones, internet, electricity and so on. Does it mean we can just delete and cancel big stuff over small annoyances? We'll end up deleting most of our lives. I don't find marketing notifications somehow more egregious than the million other anti-consumer behaviors companies show. It's a much better approach to fight those in a more targeted fashion, while still using the services and products we like or need. Please keep in mind that need is almost never "I will not survive (I will die) without it", but rather "My life is so much better with it, that a substantial investment in time/money/energy/suffering of annoyances is worth it".
- aembleton 4y ago
  What notifications does Starbucks send that are so important? I've never used the app, but presumably you'd be in one of their coffee shops in order to get the coffee. If it notifies you when you need to collect it from the counter, why not just collect it when they call your name? I can't think of any other reason Starbucks would need to notify me.

bigmattystyles 4y ago

Whatever rule requires Hulu to display a little ad logo (I assume it’s a rule) when they’re on ad break, even the standard cable channel feeds, is great. It should apply to everything, including push notifications.

coding123 4y ago

First thing I do with all apps is disable all notifications for that app. The only exception is whatever app my workplace uses (Teams). For that I simply turn the ringer to silent so they can't vibrate the shit out of me. For those they just need to wait for me to look at my phone.

hackernewds 4y ago

One solution here is using an app like Daywise, that batches and delivers your notifications. Some are useful but doesn't need in the moment attention. Has massively reduced my screen time.

xnx 4y ago

Are there any Android utility apps that will route all notifications through a single proxy where I can apply my own app/category/keyword filters, and [ideally] inbox/archive of notifications? People criticize email, but I still find it the most user-friendly notification/messaging system. I wish for the type of control that I have in email over any other messaging/notification system (app alerts, Instagram messages, Slack notifications, etc.)

chirag64 4y ago
Yep, there is an app called AutoNotification that can help filter notifications similar to how one would in a Gmail filter.

nathanasmith 4y ago

It’s a shame there isn’t some kind of system wide filter for notifications using regular expressions or something. Probably a job for an Android ROM creator.

forgotmypw17 4y ago

I faced this issue while writing my application for online spaces... I noticed that I had written a feature called server notification, and was about to start using it to notify users of things which the server wanted them to know, but which they had not asked for. I decided to rename the feature internally to "server response notification", which implies that all of the notifications are in response to a user query. This helped me focus on what the feature should be used for.

Tepix 4y ago

Kaufda is guilty of this. When i complained a about their promotional push messages, they pretended not to know what i was talking about. I uninstalled the app which had been quite useful until that time.

znpy 4y ago

that's one of the reason i got rid of my samsung phone: it used to send random nonsense notifications, MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY. it would keep asking me to let samsung use my phone's cpu for whatever stuff they're doing, send multiple weather notification during the day (i didn't ever ask for them and now it's my job to go hunt for the appropriate setting to change to disable them? go f@@k yourself, you just lost a customer) and many more that i'm now thankfully forgetting.

frederikvs 4y ago

If an app gives me spammy promotional notifications, it either A) gets uninstalled (if I don't particularly care about the app), B) gets a 1-star review with a clear comment about the notifications, or C) all of the above. The app I use to pay for parking spots suddenly gave me a notification once, apparently to try and get me to park my car more often or something. I gave it a one-star review, never saw one of those notifications again :-) (Which reminds me, I should revise that review.)

alkonaut 4y ago
The problem is with businesses that are in some other business than the app business. For example the coffee business. It doesn't matter how good/bad the app is, usually the app wasn't why you chose their business, it was location, quality of a product etc. And it's their app or no app.
aembleton 4y ago
Can't you just disable notifications for the app? If you're on android you might just be able to disable the promotional notifications.
- frederikvs 4y ago
  Yes, disabling promotional notifications is an option - except if the app developer applies the dark pattern described in the article. But even when it works, the app developer just goes on their merry way, annoying other people too. I believe it's better to send a signal, and educate developers about what we as users want.

kbos87 4y ago

This is literally what drove me away from Facebook, completely. Their constant “redesigning” of notification and privacy settings was a veiled effort to force whatever notifications in front of me. There are certain notifications I want from you Facebook, but you made a grave miscalculation when you thought I’d put up with everything else you threw at me. So here I am, a Facebook user since 2007(?) who pretty much walked away in 2019 and has barely been back.

InCityDreams 4y ago
User since 2006, ran away in 2006. Not been back. Dodged a bayraktar, there. *though i am somewhat annoyed that i cant use whatsapp, as a result. WA seems like a great app, just owned by a company i can't support.
aembleton 4y ago
What notifications do you want from Facebook? Messenger notifications makes sense but anything else can wait until you look at Facebook. Messenger is a separate app, so it can be managed separately

prymitive 4y ago

I made the mistake of buying Eufy camera and the app is basically an sales channel spamming you with ads on every occasion. If you contact support and complain about it they will disable popus for you but the app is still full of spam and animated icons inviting you to buy something. They clearly have zero respect for customers.

Sausagemancer 4y ago

My Bluetooth Blood-pressure cuff does this. Useful notification: Reminding me to measure my blood pressure twice per day, giving me a notification that I can tap to begin a measurement. Not useful notifications: Telling me that I have a "new insight available", which when tapped takes me to a prompt to "upgrade to a new premium feature. I guess if you need to upsell me on a service after I've spent >$200 for your device I can use a different reminders app and be slightly inconvenienced twice a day.

pronik 4y ago

I have a somewhat similar gripe about apps, which has some recent implications: there seems to be some school of thought for engagement, which suggests that something that's not used at least weekly is useless. For this reason Google started automatically removing permissions from apps I didn't use for some time and it's also suggested I could delete them "to save space" which is frankly quite stupid -- I have quite a lot of apps which I only intend to use when needed, but I need them installed and ready. A perfect example are emergency apps -- I do not intend for my car to break down every couple of weeks, but when it does, I need the emergency services app. I don't want to open the desaster warning app consciously, but I want it to warn me when something happens, be it today or in three years. Don't judge the app by its daily usage time please.

twic 4y ago
Sadly, features aren't added to Android because they're good for users, they're added because they'll look good in someone's promotion packet.
- NullPrefix 4y ago
  Well whoever came up with this crap needs to be demoted
hiq 4y ago
I think that's indeed the default behavior, but when I go to a certain app permissions, I have an option "remove permissions and free up space", if I untick this I expect the permissions to stay in place, is that not the case?

cheriot 4y ago

This is doubly bad when the notification is on my watch. Looking at you, Uber. There's a fair number of apps I'd happily enable useful notifications on, but don't because they send marketing crap.

navjack27 4y ago

It's cool cuz on my Pixel 5 most of my notifications that I want I don't get in a timely fashion and the ones I don't want are just disabled anyway. I just want notifications to work at all.

sourabhv 4y ago

These companies boast so much about their prowess in AI, but can't differentiate between a transactional and promotional message?

celeritascelery 4y ago

This is out of reach for most people, but what I would love is to be able to define a regex per app that will let me filter notifications. Give control back to the users.

hellisothers 4y ago

Technically Apple says if you want to send promotional notifications you have to ask for that permission explicitly and offer the user a way to turn just those notification types on/off. Maybe complain FWIW https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/ios/system-capabilities/notifications https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

meatmanek 4y ago
I'm a little surprised iOS doesn't have a way to report a notification as spam.

polotics 4y ago

This post really lost me at: "and I’m sure they’re getting that many more engagements because of it" clearly what spam notifications do is make me question having installed the app in the first place. For me this has led to many uninstalls.

jrockway 4y ago

Every notification system eventually becomes email. What that means is that we probably need OS-level spam filters so that you can report things as spam. If the notification looks spammy based on the training, it simply won't show up. Marketers think they're reaching you, an army of software engineers remained employed to figure out how to refactor the API to send notifications with the V3 protocol or whatever unnecessary change the OS vendor made this week (driving up every other software engineer's salary; thank you!), but you don't have to be woken up by the latest not-actually-a-very-good-deal. Whether or not the notification was delivered or blocked by the filter probably shouldn't be fed back to the application, to stave off the inevitable workarounds. But people will test stuff on their own devices and find workarounds. "Your order has arrived! Tap for details." But when you tap it's just an ad. On the other hand, it would be nice for things like Pagerduty to know that all of their notifications were blocked and that they should escalate to the next person on the rotation. The "mark as spam" data should be fed back to the app stores, and if the app requested status notification privilege and not marketing notification privileges, their app is pulled until they fix it. (Cannot wait to read the whining about that. "I'm just trying to hustle like some blog post from 30 years ago said I should! <crying face emoji>") In the meantime, I don't really ever turn on app notifications. They usually email me, and what's great about email is I have the Spam folder and the Promotions tab, so I never see most of their communications.

Anunayj 4y ago
This is a great idea honestly, and definitely possible on android without root, causal search gives me a app that already tries to do this [1]. Though giving notification permission to a closed source app that may send notifications to a remote server for "AI magic" seems bad. If anyone knows of a good open source implementation, be my guest. There is also this thing on Android Issue tracker [2] 1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.notification.cleaner&hl=en_IN&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.notificati... 2. https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/226161368?pli=1 https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/226161368?pli=1
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adrianmonk 4y ago

On Android, they tried to improve this by adding notification channels[1] (aka categories). Channels are mandatory, and users can turn each channel on/off in system settings. The problem is few apps assign meaningful or useful channels. Instead: (1) Some apps use the dark UI pattern of putting important notifications and junk/spam notifications together in one channel. They use the ones you do want as leverage to make you see the ones you don't want. (2) With some apps, they just don't make an effort. For example, the JustWatch app has two channels: "Default" and "Miscellaneous". The KAYAK app has two channels; one is called "Offers & promotions", and the other is also called "Offers & promotions". (3) Defining useful, meaningful channels is actually a bit of a UI challenge. Some apps try but don't divide things up in a useful way. The Meetup app has a ton of channels, including 12 at the top level and 3 for each Meetup group that you're a member of. They made an effort, and it helps some, but it's a bit overwhelming. --- [1] https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels

nraynaud 4y ago

Amazon notified me that they thought I might like to buy a new stove.

mortenjorck 4y ago

While Apple should be able to enforce this at an App Store level, it seems to me there’s a pretty simple heuristic that could be applied as a per-app notification setting: “Mute notifications if I haven’t used this app in more than 24 hours” That ought to catch the majority of notification abuse, and to tighten it even further, the inactivity periods could be configurable (24, 8, 2 hours, etc).

alexyim 4y ago

It unfortunately seems like our best chance is to wait until Apple cracks down on this, as self interested companies won't.

prepend 4y ago

There’s asshole companies and cool companies. Asshole companies send marketing notifications when people sign up for useful notifications. Companies on the edge default to on but at least let you turn off notifications. Asshole companies can still be useful. I use UberEats but have their notifications turned off. I’ll also add that I’m amazed that after using an iPhone for 15 years, I’ve never gotten a spam push from Apple. And their temptation must be great.

hateful 4y ago

It once again comes down to the fact that we are the product, not the customer. In this article, Devin Booker is the customer. Also, after reading many comments with suggestions and hacks to work around this (which I also do, btw), I think we may be missing the point, our time is valuable, and if we've all just spent half a day figuring out how to get the proper applications from a single app on our phone, we've already paid the price - and it's not right.

aembleton 4y ago
It doesn't take half a day to disable notifications!

misterpigs 4y ago

WAG is so shitty about this. I absolutely need notifications but they constantly nag you.

karolzlot 4y ago

"Notification Remover" Android app allows to automatically dismiss some notifications but not others, based on user-defined filters. I use it and it works really well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31636602 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31636602 From app description: "Notifications will be cleaned automatically based on your input. Select the package name of an app and enter the message text (regular expression) of the annoying notification and you'll never see it again." It however lacks ability to export / import filters so they need to be created manually. Also the app is not longer updated. I hope at some point somebody will create open-source clone of it with more features.

wombat-man 4y ago

It's not perfect but if they're using something like Braze you can block it by using a dns ad block like nextdns. Then you should only get notifications triggered by app logic and not by 3rd party marketing CMS whatever solutions.

diebeforei485 4y ago

Apple has lost the moral high ground because they decided to spam everyone with notifications for revenue-generating services like Apple Pay, Apple Music, Apple TV+ etc in order to increase their services revenue. This also means they can't effectively enforce App Store guideline 4.5.4, which says: ... Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI...

wodenokoto 4y ago
I agree. One of the reasons why Apple says they need a walled garden approach is to ensure that we don't get spammed with promotional push notifications. So if they aren't protecting users, and are themselves sending us promotions, then they have one less argument for a walled garden app store approach.

ko3us 4y ago

Apps should allow for low level notification management. This allows the personalisation for notifications. Eg https://imgur.com/a/RSNu0Km https://imgur.com/a/RSNu0Km

Dwedit 4y ago

I think there's a possible solution. Something like "Hide all notifications 5 hours after you last used the app". 5 hours could be enough time to do anything that the app needs to notify you for, then the marketing notifications come out of the blue 2 weeks later.

ravel-bar-foo 4y ago

Everyone is focused on phones, but I've experienced this in Windows. There is a Korean office suite (Hancom Office) which updates 3-5 times per day, ringing the notification bell in Win10 each time regardless of current user focus. (User is in full screen movie? Ring the bell. Skype call? Ring the bell ...)

cy_overlord 4y ago

It would be interesting to see the story from the other side, like how effective are these promotional notifications.

CamelRocketFish 4y ago

Promotional notifications are required to be opt-in as per the App Store review terms. Please report apps if they are not following this.

ztjio 4y ago

I don't know when (or even if) it changed, but, using notifications for ads/promotion on iOS used to be a dev terms violation. I really miss that era.

thunkshift1 4y ago

This is a fairly straight forward expectation. That app developers have to be explicitly made aware of this through a public blog post is kind of shameful. It clearly shows to what extent they are ready to abuse user attention and how little they care about end user. This is just another example in a looong list of things which point to a steady erosion of end user control on things and how they are being reduced to agents optimizing metrics that matter for my app/product.