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I've watched a lot of discussions about this from twitch streamers and I'm not sure where I stand.. On the one hand I'm amazed at how good this game looks on mo

I've watched a lot of discussions about this from twitch streamers and I'm not sure where I stand.. On the one hand I'm amazed at how good this game looks on mobile and if you're just the type to casually play a game not really caring about being the best at it you could have fun playing it for free or for very cheap. On the other hand this game is clearly exploitative and while other games like Hearthstone or Clash Royale have similar pay to win mechanics they also have ways for you to enjoy the game competitively without spending a whole lot of money. I know some countries banned games like this but I wonder, if these games get banned why not ban casinos too?

rightbyte 4y ago
Casinos are banned in many places and also banned for kids in most places. Clash royale is sad, becouse it is a extremely good game if it were not for the pay to win leveling mechanics. I used to play it alot but it became too frustrating meeting bad players with low ELO but high level cards that you essentially couldn't win over unless they messed up bad. Edit: To level up all cards in Clash Royale you also have to spend a silly amount of money. Exponential costs.
- Marazan 4y ago
  Clash Royale is way more generous with free gold to level up cards these days. Far, far, quicker to get cards to tournament standard.
- jack_pp 4y ago
  I just started playing it after a long break. I remember you used to need to upgrade your cards to challenge level in order to be competitive in challenges but now they give you all cards in challenge mode at the standard level, even cards you haven't found yet It costs 10 gems to play a challenge and you can buy 500 gems for 5$ so that's 50 challenges, say you get at least 7 games per challenge so 350 games for 5$ where only skill matters. I'd say that's not exploitative. Of course if you care about your rank and having a Big Number in a silly mobile game then yes you either have to play a lot or pay a lot of money.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    Oh ok. Sounds like a good play mode. Maybe they themself realized how silly it was.
- monkey_monkey 4y ago
  I've played Clash Royale since almost when it was launched, and I've spent about $10, mainly for a couple of months of Pass Royale. My secondary clash account is staying as Level 1, ie with no upgraded cards at all, and I regularly beat level 10/11 players.
  - Marazan 4y ago
    Yeah, skill is the dominant factor in Clash Royale right up into 5000+
throwuxiytayq 4y ago
I don't buy the "we have ways to play the game without spending lots of money" excuse these companies are constantly peddling. I refuse to accept this new default of "games" explicitly designed to abuse children and addicts.
- jack_pp 4y ago
  Children don't have access to a credit card unless you give it to them. If in 2022 you're giving a kid a device where he can make payments without your input then you're responsible for it. If you're addicted to spending money online irresponsibly I doubt there is any law that will protect you, there's millions of ways to spend money to get gratification online.
  - dtech 4y ago
    "We shouldn't restrict heroin, if you're prone to addiction you can get a candybar in any supermarket" These games are explicitly designed to prey on people prone to gambling-like addictions.
    - jack_pp 4y ago
      Not quite the same thing as heroin as you can easily drown your sorrows in any number of cheap video games and I'm of the belief that if you are prone to addictions the only way to evolve passed them is to go through them. I am against putting laws up against these games but I am for the community warning and talking about this so people know what they're getting into. I'm also for legalizing all drugs but that's another discussion
      - kaibee 4y ago
        > Not quite the same thing as heroin If it was, do you think it would stop them?
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Just buy Google Play card at store with cash.
ptilt 4y ago
Casinos asks for your ID card, and are regulated to protect people banned from gambling (at least it is the case in France)
solar-ice 4y ago
Casinos and machine-based gambling are fairly heavily regulated in a lot of places, requiring a license with auditing, with rules on everything you can possibly think of. The mobile gaming industry has so far avoided this body of law by never providing anything of value in return.
- chii 4y ago
  > by never providing anything of value in return. you could argue they provided entertainment in return.
  - badkitty 4y ago
doix 4y ago
Look at this guy [0], he is the rank one monk in PvP and PvE and spent 0 dollars. I played a wee bit and it didn't seem that bad. You can pay to upgrade your gear, but that seems entirely pointless in an ARPG. The whole game is a grind to get better gear! Once you actually have perfect gear, why keep playing? My issue with the game is that it lacks depth after having spent far too much time playing Path of Exile. There aren't that many possible builds, and the game basically tells you exactly how to build if you want to do PvP or PvE. As far as I can tell, those builds are the meta ones, so the designers are forcing the meta. But as a game to run in and kill some monsters without thinking too much, it seems fine. Which makes sense since it's a mobile game. [0] https://www.twitch.tv/wudijo https://www.twitch.tv/wudijo
- jack_pp 4y ago
  interesting, so if you can be no1 while free to play is every streamer lying? Edit: Or right now since it's early you can out-skill other people while they're figuring it out and soon the people who spend more will have both skill and raw power and will dominate
  - doix 4y ago
    I don't understand the comment, sorry. I don't think other streamers are lying, you can pay to get stronger, easily verified by opening the shop and looking at what is available. But it looks like if you play the game as your job, you can still be competitive. Does it suck that you can pay to get stronger and make the game unfair? Yep, but I'm not convinced it matters if you're playing casually. None of the pay to win stuff changes the game play drastically. You're only really increasing the amount of damage you do, it's not like Path of Exile where some of the really rare items can enable a new type of build or trading card games where certain cards let you build different decks with different playstyles. Personally, I see no incentive to buy anything. I can clear a level 12 challenge rift, grind slowly and slowly clear higher level ones. Or I could spend a bunch of money and get to do level 20 challenge rifts or whatever. At which point you hit the wall and either pay money or keep grinding. But since the game is all about grinding, why pay to skip forward and grind more?
ImaCake 4y ago
The state of Western Australia has banned poker machines. We have a single casino in the capital which is the only sanctioned gambling establishment. So our pubs and clubs are a bit poorer and there are less of them. But they are not ruined by the horrible rooms full of sad people playing poker machines that you see in other states. I grew up on the east coast and whenever I walk into a pub in Perth I am always surprised by how authentic and nice the place feels compared to those that have poker machines.
scotty79 4y ago
I had a ton of fun with Clash Royale for many months (even years at this point) without spending exactly zero money. I think the way they mix free players with paying players is absolutely brilliant (from a perspective of free player). If I go against a player two levels ahead of me, I can be pretty much sure that he bought his deck and since he's going against me not some higher rank I know I have chance of winning if I can outwit materially stronger opponent. When I'm going against someone with lower level then I can be sure that this guy has very carefully crafted deck and is a very skilled player.

rightbyte 4y ago

Casinos are banned in many places and also banned for kids in most places. Clash royale is sad, becouse it is a extremely good game if it were not for the pay to win leveling mechanics. I used to play it alot but it became too frustrating meeting bad players with low ELO but high level cards that you essentially couldn't win over unless they messed up bad. Edit: To level up all cards in Clash Royale you also have to spend a silly amount of money. Exponential costs.

Marazan 4y ago
Clash Royale is way more generous with free gold to level up cards these days. Far, far, quicker to get cards to tournament standard.
jack_pp 4y ago
I just started playing it after a long break. I remember you used to need to upgrade your cards to challenge level in order to be competitive in challenges but now they give you all cards in challenge mode at the standard level, even cards you haven't found yet It costs 10 gems to play a challenge and you can buy 500 gems for 5$ so that's 50 challenges, say you get at least 7 games per challenge so 350 games for 5$ where only skill matters. I'd say that's not exploitative. Of course if you care about your rank and having a Big Number in a silly mobile game then yes you either have to play a lot or pay a lot of money.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  Oh ok. Sounds like a good play mode. Maybe they themself realized how silly it was.
monkey_monkey 4y ago
I've played Clash Royale since almost when it was launched, and I've spent about $10, mainly for a couple of months of Pass Royale. My secondary clash account is staying as Level 1, ie with no upgraded cards at all, and I regularly beat level 10/11 players.
- Marazan 4y ago
  Yeah, skill is the dominant factor in Clash Royale right up into 5000+

throwuxiytayq 4y ago

I don't buy the "we have ways to play the game without spending lots of money" excuse these companies are constantly peddling. I refuse to accept this new default of "games" explicitly designed to abuse children and addicts.

jack_pp 4y ago
Children don't have access to a credit card unless you give it to them. If in 2022 you're giving a kid a device where he can make payments without your input then you're responsible for it. If you're addicted to spending money online irresponsibly I doubt there is any law that will protect you, there's millions of ways to spend money to get gratification online.
- dtech 4y ago
  "We shouldn't restrict heroin, if you're prone to addiction you can get a candybar in any supermarket" These games are explicitly designed to prey on people prone to gambling-like addictions.
  - jack_pp 4y ago
    Not quite the same thing as heroin as you can easily drown your sorrows in any number of cheap video games and I'm of the belief that if you are prone to addictions the only way to evolve passed them is to go through them. I am against putting laws up against these games but I am for the community warning and talking about this so people know what they're getting into. I'm also for legalizing all drugs but that's another discussion
    - kaibee 4y ago
      > Not quite the same thing as heroin If it was, do you think it would stop them?
- fomine3 4y ago
  Just buy Google Play card at store with cash.

ptilt 4y ago

Casinos asks for your ID card, and are regulated to protect people banned from gambling (at least it is the case in France)

solar-ice 4y ago

Casinos and machine-based gambling are fairly heavily regulated in a lot of places, requiring a license with auditing, with rules on everything you can possibly think of. The mobile gaming industry has so far avoided this body of law by never providing anything of value in return.

chii 4y ago
> by never providing anything of value in return. you could argue they provided entertainment in return.
- badkitty 4y ago

doix 4y ago

Look at this guy [0], he is the rank one monk in PvP and PvE and spent 0 dollars. I played a wee bit and it didn't seem that bad. You can pay to upgrade your gear, but that seems entirely pointless in an ARPG. The whole game is a grind to get better gear! Once you actually have perfect gear, why keep playing? My issue with the game is that it lacks depth after having spent far too much time playing Path of Exile. There aren't that many possible builds, and the game basically tells you exactly how to build if you want to do PvP or PvE. As far as I can tell, those builds are the meta ones, so the designers are forcing the meta. But as a game to run in and kill some monsters without thinking too much, it seems fine. Which makes sense since it's a mobile game. [0] https://www.twitch.tv/wudijo https://www.twitch.tv/wudijo

jack_pp 4y ago
interesting, so if you can be no1 while free to play is every streamer lying? Edit: Or right now since it's early you can out-skill other people while they're figuring it out and soon the people who spend more will have both skill and raw power and will dominate
- doix 4y ago
  I don't understand the comment, sorry. I don't think other streamers are lying, you can pay to get stronger, easily verified by opening the shop and looking at what is available. But it looks like if you play the game as your job, you can still be competitive. Does it suck that you can pay to get stronger and make the game unfair? Yep, but I'm not convinced it matters if you're playing casually. None of the pay to win stuff changes the game play drastically. You're only really increasing the amount of damage you do, it's not like Path of Exile where some of the really rare items can enable a new type of build or trading card games where certain cards let you build different decks with different playstyles. Personally, I see no incentive to buy anything. I can clear a level 12 challenge rift, grind slowly and slowly clear higher level ones. Or I could spend a bunch of money and get to do level 20 challenge rifts or whatever. At which point you hit the wall and either pay money or keep grinding. But since the game is all about grinding, why pay to skip forward and grind more?

ImaCake 4y ago

The state of Western Australia has banned poker machines. We have a single casino in the capital which is the only sanctioned gambling establishment. So our pubs and clubs are a bit poorer and there are less of them. But they are not ruined by the horrible rooms full of sad people playing poker machines that you see in other states. I grew up on the east coast and whenever I walk into a pub in Perth I am always surprised by how authentic and nice the place feels compared to those that have poker machines.

scotty79 4y ago

I had a ton of fun with Clash Royale for many months (even years at this point) without spending exactly zero money. I think the way they mix free players with paying players is absolutely brilliant (from a perspective of free player). If I go against a player two levels ahead of me, I can be pretty much sure that he bought his deck and since he's going against me not some higher rank I know I have chance of winning if I can outwit materially stronger opponent. When I'm going against someone with lower level then I can be sure that this guy has very carefully crafted deck and is a very skilled player.