8 ms·
People seem to suddenly forget that these transactions are already tracked and individually linked to you. Should we allow anyone to collect that data except de
by mateo1 4y ago
People seem to suddenly forget that these transactions are already tracked and individually linked to you. Should we allow anyone to collect that data except democratically elected governments? What's the logic behind this?
- mdmglr 4y ago> People seem to suddenly forget that these transactions are already tracked and individually linked to you. Is this true? I thought only if you joined a rewards program.
- charlieyu1 4y agoIn most countries, paying in cash is a thing. And I try to avoid paying with cards or e-payment as much as I can
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoYou must have hella change laying around.
- charlieyu1 4y agoNot much, because I also pay in coins in exact amounts.
- AlbertCory 4y agoI don't know about him, but my Safeway has a change machine up front. You can either get the total in cash, minus commission, or store credit for the whole amount.
- hutzlibu 4y agoMy bank in germany has a machine, where I can put them in to be transfered to my account. (but I think I only ever did that once)
- somehnacct3757 4y agoIf you always carry your change with you and spend it whenever possible, your coin quantity will remain pocketable. You gotta be committed enough to hand over a twenty dollar bill alongside a quarter, when paying a $19.17 bill for example. Rather than take in 83 cents you take in 8 (and score a dollar.)
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 01acheru 4y agoIn euroland bills start at 5 euro, below it is all coins. So when paying cash you get a lot of 1 or 2 euro coins as change. I change those coins into 5 euro bills whenever possible, stores always want change. Small coins go into a big jar that we use to tip people like the pizza delivery guy. If the jar gets too full I simply donate the jar as is to a charity I know.
- LadyCailin 4y agoNorway is also really not a fan of cash, so they’re doing all they can to phase it out, especially during the pandemic.
- mellavora 4y agoI guess you haven't spent a lot of time in the Nordics. some random articles: https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society https://interestingengineering.com/sweden-how-to-live-in-the-worlds-first-cashless-society https://interestingengineering.com/sweden-how-to-live-in-the...
- hp48fan 4y agoNope. Their cashless culture is one of the reasons I hope I never do go to Scandinavia.
- vkou 4y agoWhat are the other reasons?
- hp48fan 4y agoI knew a (great) artist who spent almost her whole life in Norway and Sweeden. Shes in her nineties, speaks a half dozen languages, worked for Norwegian public TV. That is to say she's walked in the highest echelons on Nordic society. Talking to her, she'd often bemoan that the prejudice that Nordic societies are very conformist is true. Which is in line with what Ive experienced with Nordics
- vkou 4y agoIf I were to look for it, I don't think there's a single country on Earth where I couldn't find a smorgasbord of social conformism that I strongly dislike. It's a social glue that holds every culture together, and it never has to make much sense.
- hp48fan 4y agoBut there are different amounts and different quality of conformism. The Nordic (as in Germany northward) one is particularly insistent on crushing deviations from the zeitgeist (German word).
- alcover 4y agoSWIM also carefully avoids electronically paying for tobacco because that info, despite the theoretical separation, may be golden to insurance corps..
- throwaway4aday 4y agoIf you're talking about the tracking done by reward systems then that's a voluntary agreement that people enter into. You can choose not to use a rewards program. As far as I know, if you use a credit card they only know the total of how much you spent and once again you can choose not to use a credit card or bank card and pay with cash if you wish. This proposed data collection has no opt out option. It's kind of exasperating how little people think about the difference between voluntary participation and forced participation when it makes a world of difference. Maybe we have just lived in good times too long and we have become soft, weak and amnesiac about what happens when the other aspects of human nature gain dominance in society.
- cma 4y agoWhy would the grocery store, who tracks inventory changes with each sale, only be able to know the credit card total?
- davchana 4y agoOP means the "card issuing bank" knows only the total amount spent, not the individual items cost.
- jimkleiber 4y agoWhat if the government said it was optional, but those who sign up get a 2% discount on their taxes? Would you find that more acceptable?
- el-salvador 4y agoThis must exist in some places now. I once got a discount in Sales Tax in Honduras (about 1%) for paying with my credit card instead of cash in a restaurant.
- jimbobimbo 4y agoBut this is not what is happening in Norway, isn't it? There's no alternative offer on the table, there's not even an invitation to propose an alternative, there's no opt out, only govt wanting to get deeper into private people's business.
- leeroyjenkins11 4y agoThe idea behind the separation is that the government has the ability to make you do something with the threat of force. Not to say we shouldn't put protections from private corporations in place, but they can't legally imprison you.
- bbddg 4y agoYou're just describing laws. Is the worry here that they could more effectively enforce laws because of this tracking? Is that a bad thing?
- concordDance 4y agoIt is when you don't trust the lawmaking process is acting in your best interests. And distrust of that process is extremely high atm (I believe trust in politicians is below 50% in the US).
- bbddg 4y agoWell we don't really have a functional democracy in the US. That's really the core problem to fix before you can start trusting the government more.
- marklubi 4y ago> Well we don't really have a functional democracy in the US. The United States isn’t a democracy, it’s a democratic republic. Unfortunately, most of that was thrown out with the 17th amendment, and we’re paying for it now with increased federal control.
- car_analogy 4y agoYes! This is not a novel idea - it's how the US got its 4th amendment, prohibiting unreasonable search. Government power should not be unlimited, because it risks slipping into tyranny. Don't turn your country into a prison on the hope that the warden will remain benevolent. There's no shortage of past and present examples of that suddenly changing.
- DeathArrow 4y agoI should have the possibility to opt out of the data collection, no matter who does it. As long as I don't break the law, it's no one's business what I do.
- reaperducer 4y agoPeople seem to suddenly forget that these transactions are already tracked and individually linked to you. Should we allow anyone to collect that data except democratically elected governments? Both are bad. People don't like governments tracking their every move because, governments have sometimes done bad things with that information, both historically and even today. People allow tech companies to track their every move because they're offered something in return: Free access to an app, automatic coupons at the supermarket, etc. I don't envision the government lowering people's taxes in exchange for more information. Even though this program could help the government craft health policy and save millions on medical care for its people.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- croes 4y agoWhat's the worst a store can do to you, what's the worst a government can do to you? Don't make me confirm Godwin's law about democratically elected government.
- trasz 4y ago“Government” isn’t a single entity. What’s the worst thing the state’s statistics department can do to you? Is it really that more dangerous than, say, Amazon?
- croes 4y agoLike you said, it's not a single entity. One collects the data, best, the ones that are harmless because they can't do much but others take that data to justify their actions.
- Iv 4y agoA store can sell its data to authoritarian governments that can jail people, to insurance companies that in some countries can prevent you from getting a credit card, a loan or even a job. Now another question: what the best a government is likely to do with this data? What is the best a private company is likely to do with it?
- gruez 4y ago>A store can sell its data to authoritarian governments that can jail people I find it unlikely that my local supermarket is going to sell my purchasing habits to China or Iran. I'm far more worried about my local government getting their hands on it, but at that point I don't see the distinction. >to insurance companies that in some countries can prevent you from getting a credit card, a loan or even a job. In what country are insurance companies determining whether you can get a credit card/loan/job? Are you sure you don't mean credit bureaus?
- Iv 4y ago> I find it unlikely that my local supermarket is going to sell my purchasing habits to China or Iran. Oh really? Do you think they run an ethical check on people who propose to buy their data? I a sure China is home to a lot of cheap backend services and their clients don't think twice about it. > Are you sure you don't mean credit bureaus? Probably yeah, I am not used to that American thing. People think the CCP invented the reputation score but US' private system predates that.
- temac 4y agoWe should allow neither.
- rhn_mk1 4y agoThankfully, you're wrong - cash still exists.
- LadyCailin 4y agoFor now, but not much longer in Norway, if the various governmental players get their way.
- bbddg 4y agoI guarantee the NSA is slurping up this data in the US.
- systemvoltage 4y agoBecause giving this power to the only entity that has monopoly of coercion/violence is a terrible idea. See history.
- car_analogy 4y agoYou're absolutely right. Therefore, we should prohibit this tracking by anyone. We definitely shouldn't expand it!