6 ms·

That honestly sounds like exactly the things that annoy me, those chain restaurants and franchises with always the same audience and food. Visiting is equivalen

by anyfoo 4y ago

That honestly sounds like exactly the things that annoy me, those chain restaurants and franchises with always the same audience and food. Visiting is equivalent to going to a FedEx: You know what to expect, but you don't go there for pleasure. That's good and expected for fast food (i.e. McDonald's), but fast food is something you do on the go: Using drive through or picking up, or when I was younger sitting in only transitionally with my friends to gulp down the fast food in the middle of our night out. Luckily at least in the cities there are still a wide variety of individual restaurants, often better than where I'm from, especially (but not exclusively) if it comes to non-local cuisine. The chains take up space but they are still easy enough to ignore.

Tostino 4y ago
What you are looking for in a restaurant is not the same as everyone else. There are plenty of people who are more than happy to have their same comfortable meal over and over, these places are catering to those folk. Repeat business is better for profitability than always having to acquire new customers, and this model encourages that repeat business for the customers that it fits well with.
- anyfoo 4y ago
  I guess I don't understand why that needs chains. In the parts of Europe that I am originally from, there are far less chain restaurants than here. And as I hinted, it's still pretty common for folks to have "their" restaurant in the neighborhood and to eat there all the time, same food or not. Maybe mixing it up some time with another restaurant, maybe not.
  - Tostino 4y ago
    I don't honestly think it's necessary by any means, and don't personally like them. But they do eek our their existence through appealing to the "familiar" for their customers, because no matter where you're at, you know X will taste like home. I don't personally subscribe to that, i'd much rather see what a new place has to offer, but i'm not everyone.
    - anyfoo 4y ago
      Ah, I think I can understand that aspect (even though it also does not fit me personally).
  - throw7 4y ago
    You're right... it doesn't need "chains". "Chinese" restaurants fill the same needs. I think maybe even "Mexican" restaurants do to some degree also. I'm not familiar with Europe, but in my limited travels, "doner kebab" shops kind of seem to fill the same niche.
    - monkeybutton 4y ago
      Pho. I know exactly what to expect and what I want to order walking into any Pho restaurant in the country and they're all owned and operated by different people.
      - Spooky23 4y ago
        Maybe not. Many Asian restaurants use unique, exclusive suppliers. I don’t know about Pho places, but many neighborhood Chinese restaurants are really outposts of a fully vertically integrated enterprise. Even vegetables come from specific farms in Central America and have a distinct supply chain.
      - silisili 4y ago
        On the other hand, as a Thai food lover, I can honestly say I've never had Pad Thai that either tasted the same or was even prepared the same between restaurants. Whole peanuts, halves, crushed, peanut butter? Mixed in or on top? Egg or no egg. Same with cilantro. How wide of noodles? Etc. I try not to be picky so just ask for Pad Thai, Thai spicy. Usually good, but definitely not consistent. A chain like say, Applebees will at least give consistently OK food that tastes about the same across restaurants, IMO.
        monkeybutton 4y ago
        I once got a Pad Thai with crushed cashews and a tomato based sauce. It tasted like blasphemy.
        silisili 4y ago
        Ugh, that sounds awful. I absolutely hate tomato based. If it's red, it had better be from stirring in too much chili oil! I noticed the good places slice up fresh chilis and mix them in well. The bad places just dump some red pepper flakes on top at the end.
  - oh_sigh 4y ago
    HoJos were catering to travelers, not to locals(which is why they are on the side of highways generally). So the idea is you're in some new territory on a road trip, and you see a name you know and trust and know you can go in there and get a meal that you'll enjoy. Yes, sometimes exploring unique local food options is what you want to do. Other times, it isn't. Maybe you just spent 8 hours driving in the car with 3 kids, and you need to get food into them that you know they won't reject. Or you're a business traveler and aren't interested in sightseeing, and just want to get a quick meal near your hotel. I'm sure it happened, but I'd imagine very few customers lived within a couple miles of a HoJo and would eat there regularly.
    - anyfoo 4y ago
      That's a good explanation, thanks. So it's basically McDonald's but with more "substantial" food suited to sit in with families. That makes sense to me. Almost no matter where I traveled in the world, I sometimes wanted to just get some food in me and move on, say because I was transitioning through a place or simply did not have the energy for more. As a then single guy, McDonald's was always a good option for that: You know what you get and it's quick and easy.
      - bobthepanda 4y ago
        Right. These days, a lot of chains like these have become less necessary, since Yelp and the like are everywhere. But in pre-digital days you didn’t know which local restaurant was good and which would send you to the clinic.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      HoJos were based on the famous “Harvey Houses” of Santa Fe railroad fame. They were sort of like a mix of Dennys and a Waffle House. In alot of out of the way places, they were the restaurant. So they carried a nostalgic appeal even for locals.
  - Agamus 4y ago
    This is an interesting point. Perhaps chains give a sense of cultural cohesion across the many states, in a geography that encourages a vision of a culture that spans the states. In Europe, are there chains that project a sense of cultural cohesion across the nations?
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    The financial model is different in Europe. Real estate interest have wired that tax code in the US to the point that it’s often cheaper to leave a building vacant and get paid by the government re tax benefits than to rent it. If you find yourself in Manhattan, it’s easy to see. Storefronts with 50k people walking by every day are vacant and the rents are absurd. Even in my little city, commercial leases are nuts. My wife tried to open a bakery, but the high value spots aren’t available, period unless you enter into a multi unit lease. She ended up doing a bakery trick and flipping the business a few years later.
    - silisili 4y ago
      > doing a bakery trick I assume you meant truck? If so, we're considering the same thing for the same reasons (though not baked goods). Would love any advice or tips or pros/cons you have to share.
kube-system 4y ago
The popular situation in which someone would go to one of these restaurants is this: It's 1975 in America. You're on a family road trip. It's hot, you've been driving all day, and you've got two whiny kids in the back seat. Everyone is getting hangry, and you need somewhere comfortable to pause. You want somewhere where you can sit, get something that the kids will eat without fuss, and maybe an ice cream would be nice. The obvious answer is Howard Johnson. Drive throughs didn't exist at this time, and even if they did, you wanted to get out of the damn car anyway.
- anyfoo 4y ago
  Thanks. As mentioned elsewhere, I did not know that aspect of "roadside restaurants". It makes sense as a "pit stop" kind of thing with families, and seems to fill a similar role to the big gas station+restaurant combinations you find along the Autobahn for example. Another aspect is that if in Europe you've been driving for 8 hours, you may well have crossed a country border (or multiple), and everything is very different anyway. McDonald's again being your best bet if you want anything really predictable in that case (and you can even order without speaking the language usually).
  - kube-system 4y ago
    The road-trip culture in the US has spawned all kinds of interesting business models that make little sense out of context. My favorite example is Breezewood Pennsylvania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breezewood,_Pennsylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breezewood,_Pennsylvania It's a "town" that almost nobody lives in. It exists solely because of a poorly-conceived connection between two major highways. Millions of people stop to get gasoline, food, use the restroom, or stop at a hotel there just because they have to stop anyway at two stop lights. There's no reason the highways couldn't be directly connected today, but local lawmakers would never allow this because it would destroy their only economic purpose.
    - kstrauser 4y ago
      If you've never been to Little America, you haven't lived. https://wyoming.littleamerica.com https://wyoming.littleamerica.com
wdb 4y ago
When I grew up McDonald's was something for birthday parties or special occasions not really drive through, you went there with the goal to eat :)
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yeah. McDonald's didn't have drive-thrus when I was a kid. My mom would take me there once or twice a year and it was always a highlight. I would always get a happy meal with an orange drink. I loved their orange drink.
B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
> those chain restaurants and franchises with always the same audience and food. Visiting is equivalent to going to ... a teleportation booth, according to an amusing (or terrifying) SF story from decades ago. You could come out in any other location served by the franchise. Homogenized spacetime mumble handwave ... Sorry, forgot whodunnit. Maybe Analog magazine around 1990.
- Throw6away 4y ago
  Larry Niven. It’s a theme of his collection “A Hole In Space”, about the social impact of teleportation booths.
scarface74 4y ago
That’s exactly what I want - to know what I’m going to get. When I travel for business and now that my wife and I are traveling more for leisure, we look for an Embassy Suites. We know we are going to get a two room suite, a decent breakfast, a nice happy hour every day and good customer service. We did the AirBnb once. While it was definitely a decently nice place, we missed the gym, cleaning, restaurant downstairs, easy access by Uber (we were in a gated community), etc. In fact, my wife and I are planning to be digital nomads for the next couple of years starting later this year. We will definitely be staying in Hilton chains - Embassy, Homewood, or Home2Suites - we will be comfortable and the two room suites give me a place to work. Not to mention the side benefits of points you can rack up with the cobranded card. Other brands may be as good, Hilton is just what I’m familiar with.

by anyfoo 4y ago

Tostino 4y ago

What you are looking for in a restaurant is not the same as everyone else. There are plenty of people who are more than happy to have their same comfortable meal over and over, these places are catering to those folk. Repeat business is better for profitability than always having to acquire new customers, and this model encourages that repeat business for the customers that it fits well with.

anyfoo 4y ago
I guess I don't understand why that needs chains. In the parts of Europe that I am originally from, there are far less chain restaurants than here. And as I hinted, it's still pretty common for folks to have "their" restaurant in the neighborhood and to eat there all the time, same food or not. Maybe mixing it up some time with another restaurant, maybe not.
- Tostino 4y ago
  I don't honestly think it's necessary by any means, and don't personally like them. But they do eek our their existence through appealing to the "familiar" for their customers, because no matter where you're at, you know X will taste like home. I don't personally subscribe to that, i'd much rather see what a new place has to offer, but i'm not everyone.
  - anyfoo 4y ago
    Ah, I think I can understand that aspect (even though it also does not fit me personally).
- throw7 4y ago
  You're right... it doesn't need "chains". "Chinese" restaurants fill the same needs. I think maybe even "Mexican" restaurants do to some degree also. I'm not familiar with Europe, but in my limited travels, "doner kebab" shops kind of seem to fill the same niche.
  - monkeybutton 4y ago
    Pho. I know exactly what to expect and what I want to order walking into any Pho restaurant in the country and they're all owned and operated by different people.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      Maybe not. Many Asian restaurants use unique, exclusive suppliers. I don’t know about Pho places, but many neighborhood Chinese restaurants are really outposts of a fully vertically integrated enterprise. Even vegetables come from specific farms in Central America and have a distinct supply chain.
    - silisili 4y ago
      On the other hand, as a Thai food lover, I can honestly say I've never had Pad Thai that either tasted the same or was even prepared the same between restaurants. Whole peanuts, halves, crushed, peanut butter? Mixed in or on top? Egg or no egg. Same with cilantro. How wide of noodles? Etc. I try not to be picky so just ask for Pad Thai, Thai spicy. Usually good, but definitely not consistent. A chain like say, Applebees will at least give consistently OK food that tastes about the same across restaurants, IMO.
      - monkeybutton 4y ago
        I once got a Pad Thai with crushed cashews and a tomato based sauce. It tasted like blasphemy.
        silisili 4y ago
        Ugh, that sounds awful. I absolutely hate tomato based. If it's red, it had better be from stirring in too much chili oil! I noticed the good places slice up fresh chilis and mix them in well. The bad places just dump some red pepper flakes on top at the end.
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  HoJos were catering to travelers, not to locals(which is why they are on the side of highways generally). So the idea is you're in some new territory on a road trip, and you see a name you know and trust and know you can go in there and get a meal that you'll enjoy. Yes, sometimes exploring unique local food options is what you want to do. Other times, it isn't. Maybe you just spent 8 hours driving in the car with 3 kids, and you need to get food into them that you know they won't reject. Or you're a business traveler and aren't interested in sightseeing, and just want to get a quick meal near your hotel. I'm sure it happened, but I'd imagine very few customers lived within a couple miles of a HoJo and would eat there regularly.
  - anyfoo 4y ago
    That's a good explanation, thanks. So it's basically McDonald's but with more "substantial" food suited to sit in with families. That makes sense to me. Almost no matter where I traveled in the world, I sometimes wanted to just get some food in me and move on, say because I was transitioning through a place or simply did not have the energy for more. As a then single guy, McDonald's was always a good option for that: You know what you get and it's quick and easy.
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      Right. These days, a lot of chains like these have become less necessary, since Yelp and the like are everywhere. But in pre-digital days you didn’t know which local restaurant was good and which would send you to the clinic.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    HoJos were based on the famous “Harvey Houses” of Santa Fe railroad fame. They were sort of like a mix of Dennys and a Waffle House. In alot of out of the way places, they were the restaurant. So they carried a nostalgic appeal even for locals.
- Agamus 4y ago
  This is an interesting point. Perhaps chains give a sense of cultural cohesion across the many states, in a geography that encourages a vision of a culture that spans the states. In Europe, are there chains that project a sense of cultural cohesion across the nations?
- Spooky23 4y ago
  The financial model is different in Europe. Real estate interest have wired that tax code in the US to the point that it’s often cheaper to leave a building vacant and get paid by the government re tax benefits than to rent it. If you find yourself in Manhattan, it’s easy to see. Storefronts with 50k people walking by every day are vacant and the rents are absurd. Even in my little city, commercial leases are nuts. My wife tried to open a bakery, but the high value spots aren’t available, period unless you enter into a multi unit lease. She ended up doing a bakery trick and flipping the business a few years later.
  - silisili 4y ago
    > doing a bakery trick I assume you meant truck? If so, we're considering the same thing for the same reasons (though not baked goods). Would love any advice or tips or pros/cons you have to share.

kube-system 4y ago

The popular situation in which someone would go to one of these restaurants is this: It's 1975 in America. You're on a family road trip. It's hot, you've been driving all day, and you've got two whiny kids in the back seat. Everyone is getting hangry, and you need somewhere comfortable to pause. You want somewhere where you can sit, get something that the kids will eat without fuss, and maybe an ice cream would be nice. The obvious answer is Howard Johnson. Drive throughs didn't exist at this time, and even if they did, you wanted to get out of the damn car anyway.

anyfoo 4y ago
Thanks. As mentioned elsewhere, I did not know that aspect of "roadside restaurants". It makes sense as a "pit stop" kind of thing with families, and seems to fill a similar role to the big gas station+restaurant combinations you find along the Autobahn for example. Another aspect is that if in Europe you've been driving for 8 hours, you may well have crossed a country border (or multiple), and everything is very different anyway. McDonald's again being your best bet if you want anything really predictable in that case (and you can even order without speaking the language usually).
- kube-system 4y ago
  The road-trip culture in the US has spawned all kinds of interesting business models that make little sense out of context. My favorite example is Breezewood Pennsylvania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breezewood,_Pennsylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breezewood,_Pennsylvania It's a "town" that almost nobody lives in. It exists solely because of a poorly-conceived connection between two major highways. Millions of people stop to get gasoline, food, use the restroom, or stop at a hotel there just because they have to stop anyway at two stop lights. There's no reason the highways couldn't be directly connected today, but local lawmakers would never allow this because it would destroy their only economic purpose.
  - kstrauser 4y ago
    If you've never been to Little America, you haven't lived. https://wyoming.littleamerica.com https://wyoming.littleamerica.com

wdb 4y ago

When I grew up McDonald's was something for birthday parties or special occasions not really drive through, you went there with the goal to eat :)

SoftTalker 4y ago
Yeah. McDonald's didn't have drive-thrus when I was a kid. My mom would take me there once or twice a year and it was always a highlight. I would always get a happy meal with an orange drink. I loved their orange drink.

B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago

> those chain restaurants and franchises with always the same audience and food. Visiting is equivalent to going to ... a teleportation booth, according to an amusing (or terrifying) SF story from decades ago. You could come out in any other location served by the franchise. Homogenized spacetime mumble handwave ... Sorry, forgot whodunnit. Maybe Analog magazine around 1990.

Throw6away 4y ago
Larry Niven. It’s a theme of his collection “A Hole In Space”, about the social impact of teleportation booths.

scarface74 4y ago

That’s exactly what I want - to know what I’m going to get. When I travel for business and now that my wife and I are traveling more for leisure, we look for an Embassy Suites. We know we are going to get a two room suite, a decent breakfast, a nice happy hour every day and good customer service. We did the AirBnb once. While it was definitely a decently nice place, we missed the gym, cleaning, restaurant downstairs, easy access by Uber (we were in a gated community), etc. In fact, my wife and I are planning to be digital nomads for the next couple of years starting later this year. We will definitely be staying in Hilton chains - Embassy, Homewood, or Home2Suites - we will be comfortable and the two room suites give me a place to work. Not to mention the side benefits of points you can rack up with the cobranded card. Other brands may be as good, Hilton is just what I’m familiar with.