9 ms·

This reminds me of the horrible state of mac gaming back in the day when almost no games existed for mac. (Minecraft was one of the only decent games I remember

by natly 4y ago

This reminds me of the horrible state of mac gaming back in the day when almost no games existed for mac. (Minecraft was one of the only decent games I remember being able to play, due to being built on opengl.) Things aren't perfect on that front yet but it's certanily improved a lot. I wonder if them forcing people to use metal for graphics could bring this wall up again to make the bar too high for developers to port it.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
As a Mac person, I can report that it still sucks. If I'm lucky, I'll get to play a AAA game, a year and a half after it's released on Windows. All that sneering at Macs as "toy" computers is ridiculous. It's the worst gaming platform in the world. Linux is better. I use a Mac because I need to get work done.
- natly 4y ago
  Makes me wonder if there's an opportunity to make games for the mac. You can make decent things with a month turnaround if you're proficient and there's a lot of mac users. If they're this desperate it might be a lower hanging fruit than a lot of other SaaS type ideas that you could try to tackle for a side hustle.
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    > Makes me wonder if there's an opportunity to make games for the mac. M1 Macs can run the extensive iOS game library. While you won't find many AAA Windows or console games on it, there is no lack of entertainment on the platform.
  - Crabber 4y ago
    I don't think there's any market. The only people who buy macs are people that have no intention of playing videogames on that system. I personally transitioned from Windows -> Linux -> MacOS, and each switch correlated exactly with how much I was playing videogames at that time. I don't play games anymore which is why I'm perfectly content using a mac. If I wanted to play games again I would go back to linux, or all the way back to windows.
    - flohofwoe 4y ago
      For niches like stragey games there's actually a surprisingly high level of support for macOS on Steam. Just don't expect the latest AAA game console ports.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Back in PowerPC days, there used to be a company that would port popular game titles to OS X a few years after they were released for Windows. I don't remember their name or know whether they're still around, but I believe that at least on Intel Macs, Wine/Crossover have already claimed that niche, and it seems like there are some promising efforts to go on on Apple Silicon (with a combination of Wine system call translation/reimplementation and Rosetta 2 CPU architecture emulation).
    - armadsen 4y ago
      I think you’re thinking of Aspyr, and they are still around: https://www.aspyr.com/ https://www.aspyr.com/
  - duffyjp 4y ago
    Mac folks that want to game just use GeForce Now.
  - diamondlovesyou 4y ago
    Halo: Combat Evolved was originally a Mac game, before MS bought Bungie. Bungie's earlier games were released on Mac first (and maybe only; I don't recall). Myst was a Mac only game for a few years after its release in 1993.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
      Yeah, Bungie started off as a Mac-only shop. They had some really good games (for the time. They would be a bit old-fashioned, these days). I liked the Marathon games (I think they open-sourced them, and you can actually run them, nowadays). I know that they started developing Halo as a Mac-only game, but didn't realize that they had shipped it, as such, before being borged.
      - Zelizz 4y ago
        They didn't, the Mac version of CE is a port of the PC port, shows the Gearbox logo on startup.
  - zackmorris 4y ago
    My partner and I tried for 20 years starting around 1992-ish and released several games that all ended up being basically failures. The biggest thing is that Apple loves deprecation, so we found ourselves having to rewrite everything every 3 years or so, meaning it was all engine work and very little actual storytelling/art/plot/whatever. And it's not just us - the vast majority of the apps and games on my hard drive no longer run. Personally, I don't endorse any vendor lock-in. If I ever make another game, it will target Steam and whatever Unity or the engine of choice cross-compiles to, maybe Oculus and a few others. Also mobile ended up being a disaster on multiple fronts. I truly feel that software development lost its magic around the time that iOS and Android forced everyone to use Objective-C and Java. Which also undermined web development because vendors stopped solving actual problems in the browser and passed the buck to frameworks. Now we have the perception that stuff like Electron is somehow bad, which is like saying that higher education or any other quest for a better future is bad. The glorification of ignorance has passed the point of believability. And yes, I'm a bit saddened that I spent the most productive programming years of my life chasing a dream that didn't pan out. But, I also feel that the world is waking up out of whatever this malaise we've been in is. There's arguably more opportunity to earn a living making software now than ever before. Just remember that the next recession starts right when you finish your software project, so embrace that idea and build it anyway.
- danuker 4y ago
  They're not toys. They're jewelry.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Intermernet 4y ago
  What work can you get done faster on a Mac than any other computer?
  - scoopertrooper 4y ago
    Software developer that doesn't want to fight Linux to get wifi going?
    - gs17 4y ago
      I had more trouble getting wifi going on an M1 Macbook than on my Linux laptop. It didn't want to tell me my password was wrong, it just wouldn't connect. Neither is a huge issue.
    - switchbak 4y ago
      Wifi and even sound these days are usually ok. Bluetooth is still (usually) a nightmare though!
      - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
        I thought Bluetooth was usually a nightmare regardless of OS or device.
        NonNefarious 4y ago
        Bluetooth is indeed a shitshow. Apparently it's worst on Android. I enjoyed trying to hunt down a bug only to discover that the BT chipset in circa-2015 Macs is defective.
        switchbak 4y ago
        Good point, I have endless issues regardless of device. Well Apple on Apple is ok, but everything else is a shitshow, with desktop Linux leading the way. But still, that's a lot of progress for a "toy" OS!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- rowanG077 4y ago
  "toy" doesn't refer to gaming. It refers to it not being able to do many things expected of a real computer.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    Like playing games? Because that's about the only thing that a Mac can't do (mainly because no one writes games for them. The system, itself, does games very well). Otherwise, it's a pretty decent environment for doing "computerish" stuff.
bsenftner 4y ago
I was one of the original Mac 3rd party developers, I was in their beta developer program in '83. I had a Commodore Computers game company, and my intention was to be one of the first Mac game developer companies. Nope. Apple was deciededly hostile to the concept of published games on their system, and basically drove me away from ever publishing ANY mac software at all. Which I never have. Their development environment simply sucks ass, and then their professional treatment of entertainment software developers is worst. They reaped what they sowed.
badsectoracula 4y ago
> I wonder if them forcing people to use metal for graphics could bring this wall up again to make the bar too high for developers to port it. FWIW a new engine i'm tinkering on now and then[0][1] has an OpenGL renderer - and not even that fancy new "modern OpenGL" stuff, it is OpenGL 2 (though not out of any real practical reason, i just noticed at some point that after a couple of fixes it could run on the Athlon64+ATI X1950 Pro[2] i used back when i was in school and nowadays use as a 2000s retro PC and decided to just stick with it as a "lowest end" mode). I'm making it for the purpose of making games and my take is basically, if some platform supports OpenGL i'll support it, if not then whatever (though i'm not against using some compatibility layer as long as i can use it from Free Pascal at least). [0] https://i.imgur.com/DBaqhMo.png https://i.imgur.com/DBaqhMo.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/3lDvt7v.png https://i.imgur.com/3lDvt7v.png [2] https://i.imgur.com/m0pWioN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/m0pWioN.jpg

by natly 4y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

As a Mac person, I can report that it still sucks. If I'm lucky, I'll get to play a AAA game, a year and a half after it's released on Windows. All that sneering at Macs as "toy" computers is ridiculous. It's the worst gaming platform in the world. Linux is better. I use a Mac because I need to get work done.

natly 4y ago
Makes me wonder if there's an opportunity to make games for the mac. You can make decent things with a month turnaround if you're proficient and there's a lot of mac users. If they're this desperate it might be a lower hanging fruit than a lot of other SaaS type ideas that you could try to tackle for a side hustle.
- rbanffy 4y ago
  > Makes me wonder if there's an opportunity to make games for the mac. M1 Macs can run the extensive iOS game library. While you won't find many AAA Windows or console games on it, there is no lack of entertainment on the platform.
- Crabber 4y ago
  I don't think there's any market. The only people who buy macs are people that have no intention of playing videogames on that system. I personally transitioned from Windows -> Linux -> MacOS, and each switch correlated exactly with how much I was playing videogames at that time. I don't play games anymore which is why I'm perfectly content using a mac. If I wanted to play games again I would go back to linux, or all the way back to windows.
  - flohofwoe 4y ago
    For niches like stragey games there's actually a surprisingly high level of support for macOS on Steam. Just don't expect the latest AAA game console ports.
- lxgr 4y ago
  Back in PowerPC days, there used to be a company that would port popular game titles to OS X a few years after they were released for Windows. I don't remember their name or know whether they're still around, but I believe that at least on Intel Macs, Wine/Crossover have already claimed that niche, and it seems like there are some promising efforts to go on on Apple Silicon (with a combination of Wine system call translation/reimplementation and Rosetta 2 CPU architecture emulation).
  - armadsen 4y ago
    I think you’re thinking of Aspyr, and they are still around: https://www.aspyr.com/ https://www.aspyr.com/
- duffyjp 4y ago
  Mac folks that want to game just use GeForce Now.
- diamondlovesyou 4y ago
  Halo: Combat Evolved was originally a Mac game, before MS bought Bungie. Bungie's earlier games were released on Mac first (and maybe only; I don't recall). Myst was a Mac only game for a few years after its release in 1993.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    Yeah, Bungie started off as a Mac-only shop. They had some really good games (for the time. They would be a bit old-fashioned, these days). I liked the Marathon games (I think they open-sourced them, and you can actually run them, nowadays). I know that they started developing Halo as a Mac-only game, but didn't realize that they had shipped it, as such, before being borged.
    - Zelizz 4y ago
      They didn't, the Mac version of CE is a port of the PC port, shows the Gearbox logo on startup.
- zackmorris 4y ago
  My partner and I tried for 20 years starting around 1992-ish and released several games that all ended up being basically failures. The biggest thing is that Apple loves deprecation, so we found ourselves having to rewrite everything every 3 years or so, meaning it was all engine work and very little actual storytelling/art/plot/whatever. And it's not just us - the vast majority of the apps and games on my hard drive no longer run. Personally, I don't endorse any vendor lock-in. If I ever make another game, it will target Steam and whatever Unity or the engine of choice cross-compiles to, maybe Oculus and a few others. Also mobile ended up being a disaster on multiple fronts. I truly feel that software development lost its magic around the time that iOS and Android forced everyone to use Objective-C and Java. Which also undermined web development because vendors stopped solving actual problems in the browser and passed the buck to frameworks. Now we have the perception that stuff like Electron is somehow bad, which is like saying that higher education or any other quest for a better future is bad. The glorification of ignorance has passed the point of believability. And yes, I'm a bit saddened that I spent the most productive programming years of my life chasing a dream that didn't pan out. But, I also feel that the world is waking up out of whatever this malaise we've been in is. There's arguably more opportunity to earn a living making software now than ever before. Just remember that the next recession starts right when you finish your software project, so embrace that idea and build it anyway.
danuker 4y ago
They're not toys. They're jewelry.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Intermernet 4y ago
What work can you get done faster on a Mac than any other computer?
- scoopertrooper 4y ago
  Software developer that doesn't want to fight Linux to get wifi going?
  - gs17 4y ago
    I had more trouble getting wifi going on an M1 Macbook than on my Linux laptop. It didn't want to tell me my password was wrong, it just wouldn't connect. Neither is a huge issue.
  - switchbak 4y ago
    Wifi and even sound these days are usually ok. Bluetooth is still (usually) a nightmare though!
    - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
      I thought Bluetooth was usually a nightmare regardless of OS or device.
      - NonNefarious 4y ago
        Bluetooth is indeed a shitshow. Apparently it's worst on Android. I enjoyed trying to hunt down a bug only to discover that the BT chipset in circa-2015 Macs is defective.
      - switchbak 4y ago
        Good point, I have endless issues regardless of device. Well Apple on Apple is ok, but everything else is a shitshow, with desktop Linux leading the way. But still, that's a lot of progress for a "toy" OS!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rowanG077 4y ago
"toy" doesn't refer to gaming. It refers to it not being able to do many things expected of a real computer.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  Like playing games? Because that's about the only thing that a Mac can't do (mainly because no one writes games for them. The system, itself, does games very well). Otherwise, it's a pretty decent environment for doing "computerish" stuff.

bsenftner 4y ago

I was one of the original Mac 3rd party developers, I was in their beta developer program in '83. I had a Commodore Computers game company, and my intention was to be one of the first Mac game developer companies. Nope. Apple was deciededly hostile to the concept of published games on their system, and basically drove me away from ever publishing ANY mac software at all. Which I never have. Their development environment simply sucks ass, and then their professional treatment of entertainment software developers is worst. They reaped what they sowed.

badsectoracula 4y ago

> I wonder if them forcing people to use metal for graphics could bring this wall up again to make the bar too high for developers to port it. FWIW a new engine i'm tinkering on now and then[0][1] has an OpenGL renderer - and not even that fancy new "modern OpenGL" stuff, it is OpenGL 2 (though not out of any real practical reason, i just noticed at some point that after a couple of fixes it could run on the Athlon64+ATI X1950 Pro[2] i used back when i was in school and nowadays use as a 2000s retro PC and decided to just stick with it as a "lowest end" mode). I'm making it for the purpose of making games and my take is basically, if some platform supports OpenGL i'll support it, if not then whatever (though i'm not against using some compatibility layer as long as i can use it from Free Pascal at least). [0] https://i.imgur.com/DBaqhMo.png https://i.imgur.com/DBaqhMo.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/3lDvt7v.png https://i.imgur.com/3lDvt7v.png [2] https://i.imgur.com/m0pWioN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/m0pWioN.jpg