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Wait until you see what Bosch and Shimano have been up to in the e-bike market. Mid-drive systems from both companies require a specific mount in the frame for

Wait until you see what Bosch and Shimano have been up to in the e-bike market. Mid-drive systems from both companies require a specific mount in the frame for them, and of course one system will not mount in a hole made for the other. It's so bad that they've even made the mount specific to a particular product line. Buy a bike with the motor designed for relaxed cruising, and later decide you want the performance assist? Too bad! It won't fit your bike. Wom wom.) You can't diagnose either system without their proprietary software. Bosch's batteries brick themselves if you open them up and attempt to re-cell/repair the battery (third party solutions allow for de-bricking them now.) So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight.

na85 4y ago
This future sucks.
justinator 4y ago
So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight. I would assume, just as Mitch Hedberg noted about escalators can never break they just become stairs, an ebike just becomes a "bike" without the battery. In fact, I thought that's one of the selling points?
- rocqua 4y ago
  An ebike is 5 to 10 times as expensive, and much heavier than a normal bike.
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    By much you mean the weight of the motor, which actually is not the main weight of the bike. Batteries tend to be removable or easy to gut. The frames may sometimes be a bit more heavy duty, but usually aren't. The motor is noticeable on a super light carbon bike but not really on aluminum and definitely not on steel frame. 5-10 times more expensive is also a lie, at most I've seen 2x over comparable non-electric. (Though instead it should be a flat price increase.) Thing is, many ebikes are in premium segment. But there are many cheap ones as well.
    - rocqua 4y ago
      It's not just the motor. The frame gets beefed up to handle the higher forces. Generally wheels also get stronger, as does the drivetrain. The main weight penalty is the frame though. As for price, I got a decent normal bike around 600, and would expect to pay 3000 for an equivalent e-bike. For the 10x I did conflate e-bikes with 'speed pedelecs' which are not really bicycles anymore.
  - weberer 4y ago
    Standard bikes in shops around me start at 300 euros, where ebikes start at 1,000.
- matsemann 4y ago
  An e-bike without electrical assistance is heavy and sluggish, much more than a normal bike. I don't think anyone by them for the aspect of becoming a normal bike when out of power, they buy them because of the assistance.
  - medstrom 4y ago
    Are you talking about those with brushless motors? The other kind, geared motors, should not impede anything when offline if I understand correctly. Then you just have a heavy bike, which is a problem in a hilly city but not so much in a flat city.
    - AstralStorm 4y ago
      In particular, heavier by at most 2 kg. If it's a hub motor, all it needs is new spokes and hub. If it's a mid drive, you might have to experiment a bit.
    - matsemann 4y ago
      My experience is many e-bike owners run around with almost deflated tires, worn out chain, rubbing brakes etc., since they themselves don't feel the added resistance, hehe.
- MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
  well, by the same logic, a car without a working engine becomes... a horse drawn / people pushed cart? A wheel barrow?
- maxerickson 4y ago
  Yes, on a given ride it is a selling point that you can keep going after the battery dies. That doesn't translate into it being a selling point overall, "you can still pedal it after we stop supporting the power assist" would be a stupid thing to tell a potential customer.
- lkxijlewlf 4y ago
  From a consumer perspective, good luck selling it after support ends.
- analog31 4y ago
  It becomes a bike if the battery runs out. If the electronics become inoperable, then it will likely never be ridden again. E bikes are getting bigger and heavier by the day, and physical effort is the reason why people don't ride conventional bikes.
  - nradov 4y ago
    There is a split in the market for e-bikes. Some are getting bigger and heavier, almost like motorcycles. Others are getting lighter so that you can hardly tell the difference from a traditional road bike. https://www.bianchi.com/store/us_EN/yrbn9-aria-e-road-ultegra-di2-6.html https://www.bianchi.com/store/us_EN/yrbn9-aria-e-road-ultegr...
    - analog31 4y ago
      Ah yes, those are the road bikes with thick downtubes that pass me on the MUP. ;-)
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  an ebike is a big, heavy, unpleasant bike with an electric motor. Now remove the motor.
MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
oh, no need to go this far. Just look at the 12 speed chains specs ;-)
raverbashing 4y ago
Wow sounds great Until a Chinese competitor comes and eats their lunch. Shimano overall sounds like DeBeers for men
- rhinoceraptor 4y ago
  It's very difficult for new component manufacturers to start up, for the simple reason that most people do not build their bikes from parts, so they need to come with new bikes which means convincing an existing bike company to use the parts. One other issue is that the bike industry is very insular and protectionist. Many bikes and bike components are only available through distributors such as QBP, who only sell to bike dealers. You can certainly buy good quality components that aren't Shimano/SRAM/Campy, for example the Sensah groupsets on AliExpress have a good reputation for quality and they're a fantastic deal for a high end groupset. But building a bike from parts is a lot of work, only hardcore cyclists do it.

na85 4y ago

This future sucks.

justinator 4y ago

So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight. I would assume, just as Mitch Hedberg noted about escalators can never break they just become stairs, an ebike just becomes a "bike" without the battery. In fact, I thought that's one of the selling points?

rocqua 4y ago
An ebike is 5 to 10 times as expensive, and much heavier than a normal bike.
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  By much you mean the weight of the motor, which actually is not the main weight of the bike. Batteries tend to be removable or easy to gut. The frames may sometimes be a bit more heavy duty, but usually aren't. The motor is noticeable on a super light carbon bike but not really on aluminum and definitely not on steel frame. 5-10 times more expensive is also a lie, at most I've seen 2x over comparable non-electric. (Though instead it should be a flat price increase.) Thing is, many ebikes are in premium segment. But there are many cheap ones as well.
  - rocqua 4y ago
    It's not just the motor. The frame gets beefed up to handle the higher forces. Generally wheels also get stronger, as does the drivetrain. The main weight penalty is the frame though. As for price, I got a decent normal bike around 600, and would expect to pay 3000 for an equivalent e-bike. For the 10x I did conflate e-bikes with 'speed pedelecs' which are not really bicycles anymore.
- weberer 4y ago
  Standard bikes in shops around me start at 300 euros, where ebikes start at 1,000.
matsemann 4y ago
An e-bike without electrical assistance is heavy and sluggish, much more than a normal bike. I don't think anyone by them for the aspect of becoming a normal bike when out of power, they buy them because of the assistance.
- medstrom 4y ago
  Are you talking about those with brushless motors? The other kind, geared motors, should not impede anything when offline if I understand correctly. Then you just have a heavy bike, which is a problem in a hilly city but not so much in a flat city.
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    In particular, heavier by at most 2 kg. If it's a hub motor, all it needs is new spokes and hub. If it's a mid drive, you might have to experiment a bit.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    My experience is many e-bike owners run around with almost deflated tires, worn out chain, rubbing brakes etc., since they themselves don't feel the added resistance, hehe.
MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
well, by the same logic, a car without a working engine becomes... a horse drawn / people pushed cart? A wheel barrow?
maxerickson 4y ago
Yes, on a given ride it is a selling point that you can keep going after the battery dies. That doesn't translate into it being a selling point overall, "you can still pedal it after we stop supporting the power assist" would be a stupid thing to tell a potential customer.
lkxijlewlf 4y ago
From a consumer perspective, good luck selling it after support ends.
analog31 4y ago
It becomes a bike if the battery runs out. If the electronics become inoperable, then it will likely never be ridden again. E bikes are getting bigger and heavier by the day, and physical effort is the reason why people don't ride conventional bikes.
- nradov 4y ago
  There is a split in the market for e-bikes. Some are getting bigger and heavier, almost like motorcycles. Others are getting lighter so that you can hardly tell the difference from a traditional road bike. https://www.bianchi.com/store/us_EN/yrbn9-aria-e-road-ultegra-di2-6.html https://www.bianchi.com/store/us_EN/yrbn9-aria-e-road-ultegr...
  - analog31 4y ago
    Ah yes, those are the road bikes with thick downtubes that pass me on the MUP. ;-)
skeeter2020 4y ago
an ebike is a big, heavy, unpleasant bike with an electric motor. Now remove the motor.

MezzoDelCammin 4y ago

oh, no need to go this far. Just look at the 12 speed chains specs ;-)

raverbashing 4y ago

Wow sounds great Until a Chinese competitor comes and eats their lunch. Shimano overall sounds like DeBeers for men

rhinoceraptor 4y ago
It's very difficult for new component manufacturers to start up, for the simple reason that most people do not build their bikes from parts, so they need to come with new bikes which means convincing an existing bike company to use the parts. One other issue is that the bike industry is very insular and protectionist. Many bikes and bike components are only available through distributors such as QBP, who only sell to bike dealers. You can certainly buy good quality components that aren't Shimano/SRAM/Campy, for example the Sensah groupsets on AliExpress have a good reputation for quality and they're a fantastic deal for a high end groupset. But building a bike from parts is a lot of work, only hardcore cyclists do it.