4 ms·

I don't know we get there, but we need a functional legislative branch that can implement what will be widely popular legislation to prevent large companies fro

by qq66 4y ago

I don't know we get there, but we need a functional legislative branch that can implement what will be widely popular legislation to prevent large companies from using their market power in obviously anti-consumer ways.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
Right now in the US the bike industry is spending dump trucks of cash to push state-by-state changes to bike laws creating a complex system of "classes" of e-bikes depending on power and features (namely, whether they use expensive "torque sensing" assist, or "throttle" assist.) Why? Because there are a lot of cheap conversion kits out there that use generic components, provide more power/range, are more repairable, and can be bolted on to almost any existing bike. And transferred to a new bike. Etc. These systems would either be made completely illegal or regulated to the highest "class", which, coincidentally, the legislation typically grants agencies, towns, and bike paths the most control over - including outright banning them. Which is a huge change from the status quo, where in many states, cyclist have a specific right to ride on almost any road. Bosch and Shimano have invested megabucks into "mid drive" systems which they've designed all sorts of planned obsolescence features. The most glaring example would be that each company's assist unit mounts to the frame in a very differently shaped space in the frame, so bikes have to be designed for a particular company's system. Even worse, a particular company might have several different tiers of systems (Bosch has 3-4 currently) and each uses a different shaped space in the frame.
- wl 4y ago
  The classes do serve a purpose. Many of these ebikes are essentially electric motorcycles that belong on the road and not on dedicated bicycle infrastructure.
- nradov 4y ago
  Regardless of legal e-bike classes, those cheap conversion kits were never going to go beyond a tiny niche market. The kits are only compatible with a limited set of bikes and most casual cyclists don't have the skill or desire to install one. They just want to buy a bike that works and go ride around. As a practical matter, the laws on e-bike classes are almost never actually enforced in the USA. I see people riding "bikes" which are really more like electric motorcycles on bike paths and no one does anything to stop them. (Park rangers will occasionally ticket e-MTB riders in areas where they're totally banned due to trail damage and safety risks.) The US bike industry doesn't even have "buckets of cash" to spend on lobbying. Total industry annual revenue is only about $6B (a fraction of any of the big tech companies) and profit margins are low. https://www.statista.com/topics/1448/bicycle-industry-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/topics/1448/bicycle-industry-in-the...
wjnc 4y ago
If interoperability was marketed as a feature at the moment you bought the product then in my understanding in Europe one could (try to) annul the agreement. Features are an integral part of the buying agreement. That still wouldn't hurt Shimano directly, since the annulment is with the shop. However, with these being 5k+ bikes, dealers would pretty soon start complaining to Shimano.
tbrownaw 4y ago
That sounds like the anti-trust stuff we supposedly already have.

by qq66 4y ago

KennyBlanken 4y ago

Right now in the US the bike industry is spending dump trucks of cash to push state-by-state changes to bike laws creating a complex system of "classes" of e-bikes depending on power and features (namely, whether they use expensive "torque sensing" assist, or "throttle" assist.) Why? Because there are a lot of cheap conversion kits out there that use generic components, provide more power/range, are more repairable, and can be bolted on to almost any existing bike. And transferred to a new bike. Etc. These systems would either be made completely illegal or regulated to the highest "class", which, coincidentally, the legislation typically grants agencies, towns, and bike paths the most control over - including outright banning them. Which is a huge change from the status quo, where in many states, cyclist have a specific right to ride on almost any road. Bosch and Shimano have invested megabucks into "mid drive" systems which they've designed all sorts of planned obsolescence features. The most glaring example would be that each company's assist unit mounts to the frame in a very differently shaped space in the frame, so bikes have to be designed for a particular company's system. Even worse, a particular company might have several different tiers of systems (Bosch has 3-4 currently) and each uses a different shaped space in the frame.

wl 4y ago
The classes do serve a purpose. Many of these ebikes are essentially electric motorcycles that belong on the road and not on dedicated bicycle infrastructure.
nradov 4y ago
Regardless of legal e-bike classes, those cheap conversion kits were never going to go beyond a tiny niche market. The kits are only compatible with a limited set of bikes and most casual cyclists don't have the skill or desire to install one. They just want to buy a bike that works and go ride around. As a practical matter, the laws on e-bike classes are almost never actually enforced in the USA. I see people riding "bikes" which are really more like electric motorcycles on bike paths and no one does anything to stop them. (Park rangers will occasionally ticket e-MTB riders in areas where they're totally banned due to trail damage and safety risks.) The US bike industry doesn't even have "buckets of cash" to spend on lobbying. Total industry annual revenue is only about $6B (a fraction of any of the big tech companies) and profit margins are low. https://www.statista.com/topics/1448/bicycle-industry-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/topics/1448/bicycle-industry-in-the...

wjnc 4y ago

If interoperability was marketed as a feature at the moment you bought the product then in my understanding in Europe one could (try to) annul the agreement. Features are an integral part of the buying agreement. That still wouldn't hurt Shimano directly, since the annulment is with the shop. However, with these being 5k+ bikes, dealers would pretty soon start complaining to Shimano.

tbrownaw 4y ago

That sounds like the anti-trust stuff we supposedly already have.