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I struggle to think of a good term for companys that insist on high ecosystem control. The idea of Competitve Compatibility somewhat suggests an alternate path

I struggle to think of a good term for companys that insist on high ecosystem control. The idea of Competitve Compatibility somewhat suggests an alternate path. But just defining these denialist products, that resist their users having any choice- it's a pretty blamket phenomenon & yet lacks a name.

alasdair_ 4y ago
“Apple”
- darkstar999 4y ago
  Tesla chargers.
pizza 4y ago
abusive, isolating, controlling, manipulative, etc?
KennyBlanken 4y ago
Wait until you see what Bosch and Shimano have been up to in the e-bike market. Mid-drive systems from both companies require a specific mount in the frame for them, and of course one system will not mount in a hole made for the other. It's so bad that they've even made the mount specific to a particular product line. Buy a bike with the motor designed for relaxed cruising, and later decide you want the performance assist? Too bad! It won't fit your bike. Wom wom.) You can't diagnose either system without their proprietary software. Bosch's batteries brick themselves if you open them up and attempt to re-cell/repair the battery (third party solutions allow for de-bricking them now.) So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight.
- na85 4y ago
  This future sucks.
- justinator 4y ago
  So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight. I would assume, just as Mitch Hedberg noted about escalators can never break they just become stairs, an ebike just becomes a "bike" without the battery. In fact, I thought that's one of the selling points?
  - rocqua 4y ago
    An ebike is 5 to 10 times as expensive, and much heavier than a normal bike.
    - AstralStorm 4y ago
      By much you mean the weight of the motor, which actually is not the main weight of the bike. Batteries tend to be removable or easy to gut. The frames may sometimes be a bit more heavy duty, but usually aren't. The motor is noticeable on a super light carbon bike but not really on aluminum and definitely not on steel frame. 5-10 times more expensive is also a lie, at most I've seen 2x over comparable non-electric. (Though instead it should be a flat price increase.) Thing is, many ebikes are in premium segment. But there are many cheap ones as well.
      - rocqua 4y ago
        It's not just the motor. The frame gets beefed up to handle the higher forces. Generally wheels also get stronger, as does the drivetrain. The main weight penalty is the frame though. As for price, I got a decent normal bike around 600, and would expect to pay 3000 for an equivalent e-bike. For the 10x I did conflate e-bikes with 'speed pedelecs' which are not really bicycles anymore.
    - weberer 4y ago
      Standard bikes in shops around me start at 300 euros, where ebikes start at 1,000.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    An e-bike without electrical assistance is heavy and sluggish, much more than a normal bike. I don't think anyone by them for the aspect of becoming a normal bike when out of power, they buy them because of the assistance.
- MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
  oh, no need to go this far. Just look at the 12 speed chains specs ;-)
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Wow sounds great Until a Chinese competitor comes and eats their lunch. Shimano overall sounds like DeBeers for men
  - rhinoceraptor 4y ago
    It's very difficult for new component manufacturers to start up, for the simple reason that most people do not build their bikes from parts, so they need to come with new bikes which means convincing an existing bike company to use the parts. One other issue is that the bike industry is very insular and protectionist. Many bikes and bike components are only available through distributors such as QBP, who only sell to bike dealers. You can certainly buy good quality components that aren't Shimano/SRAM/Campy, for example the Sensah groupsets on AliExpress have a good reputation for quality and they're a fantastic deal for a high end groupset. But building a bike from parts is a lot of work, only hardcore cyclists do it.
zeruch 4y ago
"I struggle to think of a good term for companys that insist on high ecosystem control." Extortionists.

alasdair_ 4y ago

“Apple”

darkstar999 4y ago
Tesla chargers.

pizza 4y ago

abusive, isolating, controlling, manipulative, etc?

KennyBlanken 4y ago

Wait until you see what Bosch and Shimano have been up to in the e-bike market. Mid-drive systems from both companies require a specific mount in the frame for them, and of course one system will not mount in a hole made for the other. It's so bad that they've even made the mount specific to a particular product line. Buy a bike with the motor designed for relaxed cruising, and later decide you want the performance assist? Too bad! It won't fit your bike. Wom wom.) You can't diagnose either system without their proprietary software. Bosch's batteries brick themselves if you open them up and attempt to re-cell/repair the battery (third party solutions allow for de-bricking them now.) So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight.

na85 4y ago
This future sucks.
justinator 4y ago
So when they stop making battery packs for your e-bike, it's a giant paperweight. I would assume, just as Mitch Hedberg noted about escalators can never break they just become stairs, an ebike just becomes a "bike" without the battery. In fact, I thought that's one of the selling points?
- rocqua 4y ago
  An ebike is 5 to 10 times as expensive, and much heavier than a normal bike.
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    By much you mean the weight of the motor, which actually is not the main weight of the bike. Batteries tend to be removable or easy to gut. The frames may sometimes be a bit more heavy duty, but usually aren't. The motor is noticeable on a super light carbon bike but not really on aluminum and definitely not on steel frame. 5-10 times more expensive is also a lie, at most I've seen 2x over comparable non-electric. (Though instead it should be a flat price increase.) Thing is, many ebikes are in premium segment. But there are many cheap ones as well.
    - rocqua 4y ago
      It's not just the motor. The frame gets beefed up to handle the higher forces. Generally wheels also get stronger, as does the drivetrain. The main weight penalty is the frame though. As for price, I got a decent normal bike around 600, and would expect to pay 3000 for an equivalent e-bike. For the 10x I did conflate e-bikes with 'speed pedelecs' which are not really bicycles anymore.
  - weberer 4y ago
    Standard bikes in shops around me start at 300 euros, where ebikes start at 1,000.
- matsemann 4y ago
  An e-bike without electrical assistance is heavy and sluggish, much more than a normal bike. I don't think anyone by them for the aspect of becoming a normal bike when out of power, they buy them because of the assistance.
MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
oh, no need to go this far. Just look at the 12 speed chains specs ;-)
raverbashing 4y ago
Wow sounds great Until a Chinese competitor comes and eats their lunch. Shimano overall sounds like DeBeers for men
- rhinoceraptor 4y ago
  It's very difficult for new component manufacturers to start up, for the simple reason that most people do not build their bikes from parts, so they need to come with new bikes which means convincing an existing bike company to use the parts. One other issue is that the bike industry is very insular and protectionist. Many bikes and bike components are only available through distributors such as QBP, who only sell to bike dealers. You can certainly buy good quality components that aren't Shimano/SRAM/Campy, for example the Sensah groupsets on AliExpress have a good reputation for quality and they're a fantastic deal for a high end groupset. But building a bike from parts is a lot of work, only hardcore cyclists do it.

zeruch 4y ago

"I struggle to think of a good term for companys that insist on high ecosystem control." Extortionists.