9 ms·

The world is not infinitely large, and this field definitely isn't. Bad reputations are hard to repair.

by throwaway5752 4y ago

tempsy 4y ago
This is like the definition of being scared into obedience.
- throwaway5752 4y ago
  It is not obedience, not even close. It is highly empowering to act with the high ethical standards no matter what, because it's always in your control. That doesn't mean being acquiescent or being naive. I don't tolerated being mistreated or lied to, but I don't reply in kind: I just leave, I don't come back, and I don't forget.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Funnily enough, this whole discussion thread is about whether it is unethical or not to "just leave" and "don't come back."
0des 4y ago
> Bad reputations are hard to repair. I hear this a lot but the job market indicates the opposite. Given sufficient skill and availability everyone is hireable. In your world Jacob Applebaum is giving back rubs to Damore under a bridge somewhere pulling on two ends of a food stamp.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Can you tell me where Damore is working now, and how it compares in terms of prestige and compensation compared to Google?
  - mparkms 4y ago
    According to his Linkedin he's working at an undisclosed startup. Who knows what his compensation is like, but it's not as if going from Google to an early-stage startup is particularly uncommon.
    - 0des 4y ago
      I think the comment you're replying to was supposed to be a 'gotcha', I don't think an actual response was intended. Shrug. I could be wrong, I'm terrible at these things sometimes.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        It won't be a "gotcha" if you can provide a better example to support your argument that "reputations are easy to repair".
    - seattle_spring 4y ago
      5 bucks says it's Truth Social.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Exceptions are not indicative of the rule. And especially when you compare Damore to someone rescinding their offer, which are nothing alike.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Do you think that the majority of people that had their reputations tarnished and lost their jobs were re-hired later in another place of equal or higher stature? IOW, do you really think that Damore is the exception to the rule?
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        I think that the bar for "had their reputations tarnished" is far higher than "rescinding an accepted offer" which is the topic of this thread. I additionally think that trying to compare someone rescinding an offer with Damore and co is irrelevant when the actions are nowhere near equal, and therefore the reactions would also not be anywhere near the same.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  > Jacob Applebaum is giving back rubs to Demore under a bridge somewhere It's Damore. And he's working, as far as I know. As for "bad reputations": at Google, and I assume at most modern companies, if an applicant came in who worked somewhere you worked at the same time, you got an automated email asking you to rate that person. I don't think I'd even call that a "backchannel." How much influence did that have? Don't know. I always knew when the bonuses had gone out at Oracle, because I'd get a flood of reference questions for people trying to leave Oracle.
  - 0des 4y ago
    >It's Damore Thanks, fixed
Retric 4y ago
It’s difficult to get a bad reputation in most fields. Stepping out of an offer isn’t something that most people will bother telling anyone about. The bar seems to sit somewhere around setting a server room on fire.
- grog454 4y ago
  > The bar seems to sit somewhere around setting a server room on fire. Ah yes, literally burning the bridge (if the servers utilize a network bridge).
dudul 4y ago
I've declined an accepted offer 1 week before my start date. 6 months later the company reached out again to see if we could make it work this time. "Burning bridges" are very exaggerated.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Hell, I accepted an offer and still work at BigTech and I still get internal recruiters from the company I work at sending me messages on LinkedIn about “exciting opportunities”. I clearly state on my LinkedIn profile where I work.
- hn_neverguess 4y ago
  Great, that's n = 1. For comparison, I would have never ever reached out to you again. And if I met you in the hallway at some other place, I would have made sure that everyone knows how I feel about you. Most people who worked at one FAANG also eventually work at one more during their careers. So if you screw over one FAANG, you'll have a hard time at 40% of FAANG. It doesn't stop there. God forbid you live in the Bay Area, and you and I perhaps cross paths at a party, Burning Man, or any other event. And for crying out loud, you better not be connected to me on Linkedin, because people will be reaching out for backchannel references for the rest of your career. The tricky thing about all this is that you'll never know. People will just magically stop responding, when you felt that things were going great. In my career of 20 years, I've probably been professionally disappointed in something like 4 or 5 people, and I can definitely think of 2 who have resurfaced in my life one way or another. Tech is a huge space when you're starting out. But as your career accelerates and you end up gaining more visibility, that same space becomes very small very quickly. I would not mess with my reputation, as a matter of principle, but also as a matter of prudence.
  - dudul 4y ago
    > For comparison, I would have never ever reached out to you again. And if I met you in the hallway at some other place, I would have made sure that everyone knows how I feel about you. Well, see, I don't even need to work with you to know I wouldn't enjoy it :). Spiteful much? And guess what, I bet the tech industry is big enough that it will never happen, so cheers.
ctvo 4y ago
From experience it's not that big of a deal that you walk back accepting an offer. These things happen all the time: - Immigration / relocation issues - Partner / significant other (can't find a job, doesn't like the location. etc.) issues - Health issues - <Received a better offer but used one of the above reasons> issues I've had candidates not show up on their first day and email in that regretfully they won't be able to start. Everyone was bummed, but no one wrote down their name in a list and shared it.
- ryanbrunner 4y ago
  I've had people drop out after accepting an offer from me that I still chat with and have relied on for reference calls (they're a manager now). It's really not a big deal, if they got a better offer somewhere else I wouldn't want them to feel like they're stuck with my company, that's not going to be a productive relationship anyway.
- LanceH 4y ago
  - none of your business
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
querulous 4y ago
i got told by a vp at a faang i would never work in the industry again and within 3 years the same faang had hired me back at a higher level. people need talent more than they can afford to hold grudges

The world is not infinitely large, and this field definitely isn't. Bad reputations are hard to repair.

tempsy 4y ago

This is like the definition of being scared into obedience.

throwaway5752 4y ago
It is not obedience, not even close. It is highly empowering to act with the high ethical standards no matter what, because it's always in your control. That doesn't mean being acquiescent or being naive. I don't tolerated being mistreated or lied to, but I don't reply in kind: I just leave, I don't come back, and I don't forget.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Funnily enough, this whole discussion thread is about whether it is unethical or not to "just leave" and "don't come back."

0des 4y ago

> Bad reputations are hard to repair. I hear this a lot but the job market indicates the opposite. Given sufficient skill and availability everyone is hireable. In your world Jacob Applebaum is giving back rubs to Damore under a bridge somewhere pulling on two ends of a food stamp.

rglullis 4y ago
Can you tell me where Damore is working now, and how it compares in terms of prestige and compensation compared to Google?
- mparkms 4y ago
  According to his Linkedin he's working at an undisclosed startup. Who knows what his compensation is like, but it's not as if going from Google to an early-stage startup is particularly uncommon.
  - 0des 4y ago
    I think the comment you're replying to was supposed to be a 'gotcha', I don't think an actual response was intended. Shrug. I could be wrong, I'm terrible at these things sometimes.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      It won't be a "gotcha" if you can provide a better example to support your argument that "reputations are easy to repair".
  - seattle_spring 4y ago
    5 bucks says it's Truth Social.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Exceptions are not indicative of the rule. And especially when you compare Damore to someone rescinding their offer, which are nothing alike.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Do you think that the majority of people that had their reputations tarnished and lost their jobs were re-hired later in another place of equal or higher stature? IOW, do you really think that Damore is the exception to the rule?
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      I think that the bar for "had their reputations tarnished" is far higher than "rescinding an accepted offer" which is the topic of this thread. I additionally think that trying to compare someone rescinding an offer with Damore and co is irrelevant when the actions are nowhere near equal, and therefore the reactions would also not be anywhere near the same.
AlbertCory 4y ago
> Jacob Applebaum is giving back rubs to Demore under a bridge somewhere It's Damore. And he's working, as far as I know. As for "bad reputations": at Google, and I assume at most modern companies, if an applicant came in who worked somewhere you worked at the same time, you got an automated email asking you to rate that person. I don't think I'd even call that a "backchannel." How much influence did that have? Don't know. I always knew when the bonuses had gone out at Oracle, because I'd get a flood of reference questions for people trying to leave Oracle.
- 0des 4y ago
  >It's Damore Thanks, fixed

Retric 4y ago

It’s difficult to get a bad reputation in most fields. Stepping out of an offer isn’t something that most people will bother telling anyone about. The bar seems to sit somewhere around setting a server room on fire.

grog454 4y ago
> The bar seems to sit somewhere around setting a server room on fire. Ah yes, literally burning the bridge (if the servers utilize a network bridge).

dudul 4y ago

I've declined an accepted offer 1 week before my start date. 6 months later the company reached out again to see if we could make it work this time. "Burning bridges" are very exaggerated.

scarface74 4y ago
Hell, I accepted an offer and still work at BigTech and I still get internal recruiters from the company I work at sending me messages on LinkedIn about “exciting opportunities”. I clearly state on my LinkedIn profile where I work.
hn_neverguess 4y ago
Great, that's n = 1. For comparison, I would have never ever reached out to you again. And if I met you in the hallway at some other place, I would have made sure that everyone knows how I feel about you. Most people who worked at one FAANG also eventually work at one more during their careers. So if you screw over one FAANG, you'll have a hard time at 40% of FAANG. It doesn't stop there. God forbid you live in the Bay Area, and you and I perhaps cross paths at a party, Burning Man, or any other event. And for crying out loud, you better not be connected to me on Linkedin, because people will be reaching out for backchannel references for the rest of your career. The tricky thing about all this is that you'll never know. People will just magically stop responding, when you felt that things were going great. In my career of 20 years, I've probably been professionally disappointed in something like 4 or 5 people, and I can definitely think of 2 who have resurfaced in my life one way or another. Tech is a huge space when you're starting out. But as your career accelerates and you end up gaining more visibility, that same space becomes very small very quickly. I would not mess with my reputation, as a matter of principle, but also as a matter of prudence.
- dudul 4y ago
  > For comparison, I would have never ever reached out to you again. And if I met you in the hallway at some other place, I would have made sure that everyone knows how I feel about you. Well, see, I don't even need to work with you to know I wouldn't enjoy it :). Spiteful much? And guess what, I bet the tech industry is big enough that it will never happen, so cheers.

ctvo 4y ago

From experience it's not that big of a deal that you walk back accepting an offer. These things happen all the time: - Immigration / relocation issues - Partner / significant other (can't find a job, doesn't like the location. etc.) issues - Health issues - <Received a better offer but used one of the above reasons> issues I've had candidates not show up on their first day and email in that regretfully they won't be able to start. Everyone was bummed, but no one wrote down their name in a list and shared it.

ryanbrunner 4y ago
I've had people drop out after accepting an offer from me that I still chat with and have relied on for reference calls (they're a manager now). It's really not a big deal, if they got a better offer somewhere else I wouldn't want them to feel like they're stuck with my company, that's not going to be a productive relationship anyway.
LanceH 4y ago
- none of your business

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

querulous 4y ago

i got told by a vp at a faang i would never work in the industry again and within 3 years the same faang had hired me back at a higher level. people need talent more than they can afford to hold grudges