6 ms·

Drawing on a plasma display with a laser pointer

160 points by codetrotter 4y ago

725686 4y ago
It is interesting, but how can someone patent this?
- woleium 4y ago
  Sometimes things are just cool.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- somat 4y ago
  I guess your question is. given that this is a technique using a device from the 90's how can there be a 2006 patent on it? my guess(without reading the patent). it's not the device that has a patent but the technique of using external emissions to affect a plasma display type element. my guess is that if contested the prior art claim would be that the invention was obvious to any one in the field(debatable) as the device that exhibits these properties was built far before the patented idea was dreamed up. This reminds me of why I dislike software patents, there are things done on computers that are genuinely patentable, but most software patents are in the form of "machine that already exists, but on a computer" which is bullshit.
xattt 4y ago
This reminds me of the Skiatron, a CRT (aka dark-trace CRT) with the ability to display a permanent image: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiatron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiatron I’ve never seen one in operation, and I don’t think there’s even pictures of one online showing an image.
- VoidWhisperer 4y ago
  This sounds like (atleast at my very basic understanding) a similar concept to e-ink displays where content will stay displayed (for the most part) until otherwise overwritten
  - xattt 4y ago
    There were Tektronics storage tubes which did this with electron guns with variable power (one current for creating a raster image, another for creating a persistent image on the phosphor). The thing that is novel to me in a Skiatron is that the electron beam manipulates something physical (i.e. the crystal structure of the KI used on the screen) in order to create the image on the tube. Taking physical object manipulation via electron gun to the extreme (ie a spinning disc of oil in a vacuum), you get the eidophor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidophor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidophor
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      > creating a raster image They excelled at vector. IIRC, the 4014 could address 4096x4096 coordinates but even between two points, the “resolution” was that of the phosphor grain. This is something we should resurrect.
      - labcomputer 4y ago
        > This is something we should resurrect. The problem with storage tube CRTs is erasure--more specifically that you can't erase arbitrary parts of the screen. With bi-stable tubes (like the kind found in the 4014), you can erase the entire screen. Some bi-stable tubes (as found on certain Tek oscilloscopes) also allow erasing predefined regions, like the top half or bottom half. Those are in, some sense, two storage tube mechanisms in one glass envelope. But there's no way to erase just one line, and the entire screen flashes brightly when you do erase the image. It makes viewing any kind of animation or moving image very annoying. They were fine back when computers didn't have enough memory to hold a 4k by 4k framebuffer because the computer didn't have enough CPU to draw enough FPS for smooth animations anyway--so users couldn't expect continuous movement of the rendered image. Notice how the image builds up gradually over time, as the host sends drawing commands to the terminal, but the image never moves once drawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM
ewlkjlergerg 4y ago
[flagged]
asdflkjt23w 4y ago
JKCalhoun 4y ago
The thing I enjoyed about this particular Applied Science video was his hypothesizing and admission that his hypothesis could be wrong (but then he added why he thought it had merit). Perhaps it is because this is such a rarified area to be poking around, but in many other videos the content creator seems to often "know it all". It's refreshing when someone says, "I think this is why this behaves like this," and then lays out their claim. Truly, this guy should leave Google so he has more time to make YouTube videos and tinker/research in his garage/lab. Something tells me he likes his day job too though.
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  What does he do at big G?
  - Karliss 4y ago
    In a video from few years ago he mentioned "electromechanical prototyping" at Verily ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verily ) previously called Google Life Sciences which is doing healthcare and biotechnology related research. Not exactly the first thing you might think when hearing Google.
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      Huh. I’ll see if I can find him on the inside. Hopefully he’s the type to appreciate small supportive cold DMs.
- chii 4y ago
  > this guy should leave Google so he has more time to make YouTube videos and tinker/research in his garage/lab. unless he's so independently rich that he doesn't require the income from google, this is not a good idea for most people (and i'm sure not for him neither). Google pays a lot, and this high pay would allow him to spend more free time (e.g., it may be possible to work only 4 days on google pay) doing tinkering. It would also allow funds to buy goods _for_ doing the tinkering. Youtube money is unlikely to be enough, and he doesn't put out enough videos for it to be a job. Paradoxically, making youtube your job will likely diminish the tinkering aspect of the video - youtube encourages you to create clickbait and upload often and consistently.
jacknews 4y ago
Very cool, and interesting. I thought it might be cool to try it out myself, perhaps make a cool toy for the kids, but a quick search on ebay for 'plasma display panel' shows it's not for the casual hacker. One item is listed at $2400+, sold "as is"!.
- nwiswell 4y ago
  When a video like this goes up, prices probably spike. Tiny inventory, and suddenly a ton of interest. I've seen this effect with other obscure nerd toys (e.g., Xeon Phi hits the reddit frontpage). Maybe set a reminder to check again in 6 or 12 months after people have time to discover some more dusty crap in their garages or wherever this stuff comes from.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    And I believe a ton of the shops on eBay use bots to automatically adjust prices.
    - palmetieri2000 4y ago
      I wonder how open to manipulation this is...
      - usrn 4y ago
        Sounds pretty easy, just buy up some of the inventory and then publish some advanced physical research on it...
- tyingq 4y ago
  Maybe search for some old luggables and laptops that used gas plasma displays. Like a Toshiba T3100, IBM PS/2 P70, Compaq 2670, etc. Still not cheap, but there should be some for $200-$300 or so.
  - rbanffy 4y ago
bsnal 4y ago
That laser at the end looks like it can blind you just by looking at it sideways.

160 points by codetrotter 4y ago

725686 4y ago

It is interesting, but how can someone patent this?

woleium 4y ago
Sometimes things are just cool.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
somat 4y ago
I guess your question is. given that this is a technique using a device from the 90's how can there be a 2006 patent on it? my guess(without reading the patent). it's not the device that has a patent but the technique of using external emissions to affect a plasma display type element. my guess is that if contested the prior art claim would be that the invention was obvious to any one in the field(debatable) as the device that exhibits these properties was built far before the patented idea was dreamed up. This reminds me of why I dislike software patents, there are things done on computers that are genuinely patentable, but most software patents are in the form of "machine that already exists, but on a computer" which is bullshit.

xattt 4y ago

This reminds me of the Skiatron, a CRT (aka dark-trace CRT) with the ability to display a permanent image: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiatron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiatron I’ve never seen one in operation, and I don’t think there’s even pictures of one online showing an image.

VoidWhisperer 4y ago
This sounds like (atleast at my very basic understanding) a similar concept to e-ink displays where content will stay displayed (for the most part) until otherwise overwritten
- xattt 4y ago
  There were Tektronics storage tubes which did this with electron guns with variable power (one current for creating a raster image, another for creating a persistent image on the phosphor). The thing that is novel to me in a Skiatron is that the electron beam manipulates something physical (i.e. the crystal structure of the KI used on the screen) in order to create the image on the tube. Taking physical object manipulation via electron gun to the extreme (ie a spinning disc of oil in a vacuum), you get the eidophor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidophor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidophor
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    > creating a raster image They excelled at vector. IIRC, the 4014 could address 4096x4096 coordinates but even between two points, the “resolution” was that of the phosphor grain. This is something we should resurrect.
    - labcomputer 4y ago
      > This is something we should resurrect. The problem with storage tube CRTs is erasure--more specifically that you can't erase arbitrary parts of the screen. With bi-stable tubes (like the kind found in the 4014), you can erase the entire screen. Some bi-stable tubes (as found on certain Tek oscilloscopes) also allow erasing predefined regions, like the top half or bottom half. Those are in, some sense, two storage tube mechanisms in one glass envelope. But there's no way to erase just one line, and the entire screen flashes brightly when you do erase the image. It makes viewing any kind of animation or moving image very annoying. They were fine back when computers didn't have enough memory to hold a 4k by 4k framebuffer because the computer didn't have enough CPU to draw enough FPS for smooth animations anyway--so users couldn't expect continuous movement of the rendered image. Notice how the image builds up gradually over time, as the host sends drawing commands to the terminal, but the image never moves once drawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM

ewlkjlergerg 4y ago

[flagged]

asdflkjt23w 4y ago

JKCalhoun 4y ago

The thing I enjoyed about this particular Applied Science video was his hypothesizing and admission that his hypothesis could be wrong (but then he added why he thought it had merit). Perhaps it is because this is such a rarified area to be poking around, but in many other videos the content creator seems to often "know it all". It's refreshing when someone says, "I think this is why this behaves like this," and then lays out their claim. Truly, this guy should leave Google so he has more time to make YouTube videos and tinker/research in his garage/lab. Something tells me he likes his day job too though.

teaearlgraycold 4y ago
What does he do at big G?
- Karliss 4y ago
  In a video from few years ago he mentioned "electromechanical prototyping" at Verily ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verily ) previously called Google Life Sciences which is doing healthcare and biotechnology related research. Not exactly the first thing you might think when hearing Google.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    Huh. I’ll see if I can find him on the inside. Hopefully he’s the type to appreciate small supportive cold DMs.
chii 4y ago
> this guy should leave Google so he has more time to make YouTube videos and tinker/research in his garage/lab. unless he's so independently rich that he doesn't require the income from google, this is not a good idea for most people (and i'm sure not for him neither). Google pays a lot, and this high pay would allow him to spend more free time (e.g., it may be possible to work only 4 days on google pay) doing tinkering. It would also allow funds to buy goods _for_ doing the tinkering. Youtube money is unlikely to be enough, and he doesn't put out enough videos for it to be a job. Paradoxically, making youtube your job will likely diminish the tinkering aspect of the video - youtube encourages you to create clickbait and upload often and consistently.

jacknews 4y ago

Very cool, and interesting. I thought it might be cool to try it out myself, perhaps make a cool toy for the kids, but a quick search on ebay for 'plasma display panel' shows it's not for the casual hacker. One item is listed at $2400+, sold "as is"!.

nwiswell 4y ago
When a video like this goes up, prices probably spike. Tiny inventory, and suddenly a ton of interest. I've seen this effect with other obscure nerd toys (e.g., Xeon Phi hits the reddit frontpage). Maybe set a reminder to check again in 6 or 12 months after people have time to discover some more dusty crap in their garages or wherever this stuff comes from.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  And I believe a ton of the shops on eBay use bots to automatically adjust prices.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    I wonder how open to manipulation this is...
    - usrn 4y ago
      Sounds pretty easy, just buy up some of the inventory and then publish some advanced physical research on it...
tyingq 4y ago
Maybe search for some old luggables and laptops that used gas plasma displays. Like a Toshiba T3100, IBM PS/2 P70, Compaq 2670, etc. Still not cheap, but there should be some for $200-$300 or so.
- rbanffy 4y ago

bsnal 4y ago

That laser at the end looks like it can blind you just by looking at it sideways.