4 ms·

It shows that most people are nice, and try to do the right thing even if mistakes can happen. However, it is sad that PR campaigns are required to reach out t

by csdvrx 4y ago

It shows that most people are nice, and try to do the right thing even if mistakes can happen. However, it is sad that PR campaigns are required to reach out to an actual human being who cares.

lin83 4y ago
I'm not sure there is anyone nice here. This is likely cynical corporate damage control at best or the work of an annoyed Google employee who happens to use this app and took a personal interest. I love Fairmail and as a paid user I'm glad it's back on the PlayStore but nothing about this makes me think better of Google or anyone in charge there.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  Especially since the fix seems to have been to expand the table in the privacy policy. On top of that most of these seem to be features you have to explicitly enable.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    Yeah, how could Google requiring a developer to disclose data collection be a good thing? Geez people, let's continue the outrage at Google and demand that no developer have to disclose data collection. /sarcasm
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      Except google didn't ask for that, they gave a factually wrong rejection reason and wouldn't communicate properly. Also the part they were likely mad at was not data collection.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > This is likely cynical corporate damage control at best or the work of an annoyed Google employee I fully disagree with your take. You are assuming the default is negative. I think your explanation might be possible, but that by default it's wrong, as most people are not cynical/annoyed or any other negative quality. My fundamental belief is that most people are nice and want to do good things. If you are surrounded by cynical/annoyed people, you may be in a toxic environment, which may taint your judgement for other situations. NB: either one of us could be making a fundamental attribution error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error and it might be hard to find the truth, as it boils down to beliefs.
  - ShamelessC 4y ago
    you're the one speaking in absolutes.
  - tonguez 4y ago
    “most people are not cynical/annoyed or any other negative quality” thanks for sharing that valuable information with us
    - ShamelessC 4y ago
      Highly plausible stuff right?
  - lin83 4y ago
    > You are assuming the default is negative. I am assuming the default is negative - for Google. I work for a far far older engineering company which is built on maintaining good relationships with our customers, vendors and their engineers. It is the exact opposite of the AI driven, frustrating/pointless bot response attitude of big tech companies. I like to think the difference is that we haven't optimised out our humanity yet.
libertine 4y ago
The problem is that Google, Amazon, etc have stripped people from the customer support equation, and outsourced it to chatbots and automated systems, and you're not allowed to reach a human. Even worst is when actual humans get your cases, but can only reply with templates (like on Seller Central), where they have no problem sending you the same message over and over again. This should be regulated for monopolies. People should be able to access a human for assistance.
- g_p 4y ago
  Humans using template responses seems to be one of the biggest complaints the FairEmail dev had - repeated copy-pasting of the same response, despite asking for clarification and even citing European legislation (which Google needs to comply with), asking for them to actually explain in plain language what the problem was. The description of the problem they gave was inaccurate in any case, which didn't help the developer in working out the problem. You therefore make a good point - while people often talk about the need for humans, these humans ALSO need to be free-thinking, not bound by a script, and have meaningful escalation paths to use for cases that the process isn't working for.

by csdvrx 4y ago

It shows that most people are nice, and try to do the right thing even if mistakes can happen. However, it is sad that PR campaigns are required to reach out to an actual human being who cares.

lin83 4y ago

I'm not sure there is anyone nice here. This is likely cynical corporate damage control at best or the work of an annoyed Google employee who happens to use this app and took a personal interest. I love Fairmail and as a paid user I'm glad it's back on the PlayStore but nothing about this makes me think better of Google or anyone in charge there.

rjzzleep 4y ago
Especially since the fix seems to have been to expand the table in the privacy policy. On top of that most of these seem to be features you have to explicitly enable.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Yeah, how could Google requiring a developer to disclose data collection be a good thing? Geez people, let's continue the outrage at Google and demand that no developer have to disclose data collection. /sarcasm
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Except google didn't ask for that, they gave a factually wrong rejection reason and wouldn't communicate properly. Also the part they were likely mad at was not data collection.
csdvrx 4y ago
> This is likely cynical corporate damage control at best or the work of an annoyed Google employee I fully disagree with your take. You are assuming the default is negative. I think your explanation might be possible, but that by default it's wrong, as most people are not cynical/annoyed or any other negative quality. My fundamental belief is that most people are nice and want to do good things. If you are surrounded by cynical/annoyed people, you may be in a toxic environment, which may taint your judgement for other situations. NB: either one of us could be making a fundamental attribution error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error and it might be hard to find the truth, as it boils down to beliefs.
- ShamelessC 4y ago
  you're the one speaking in absolutes.
- tonguez 4y ago
  “most people are not cynical/annoyed or any other negative quality” thanks for sharing that valuable information with us
  - ShamelessC 4y ago
    Highly plausible stuff right?
- lin83 4y ago
  > You are assuming the default is negative. I am assuming the default is negative - for Google. I work for a far far older engineering company which is built on maintaining good relationships with our customers, vendors and their engineers. It is the exact opposite of the AI driven, frustrating/pointless bot response attitude of big tech companies. I like to think the difference is that we haven't optimised out our humanity yet.

libertine 4y ago

The problem is that Google, Amazon, etc have stripped people from the customer support equation, and outsourced it to chatbots and automated systems, and you're not allowed to reach a human. Even worst is when actual humans get your cases, but can only reply with templates (like on Seller Central), where they have no problem sending you the same message over and over again. This should be regulated for monopolies. People should be able to access a human for assistance.

g_p 4y ago
Humans using template responses seems to be one of the biggest complaints the FairEmail dev had - repeated copy-pasting of the same response, despite asking for clarification and even citing European legislation (which Google needs to comply with), asking for them to actually explain in plain language what the problem was. The description of the problem they gave was inaccurate in any case, which didn't help the developer in working out the problem. You therefore make a good point - while people often talk about the need for humans, these humans ALSO need to be free-thinking, not bound by a script, and have meaningful escalation paths to use for cases that the process isn't working for.