9 ms·

The Hidden Worlds of the Klein Tools TI250 Thermal Imager

245 points by smitelli 4y ago

danw1979 4y ago
Nice little reverse engineering story ! How observant of Scott to notice there was a bunch of extra data in those files…
Starcrunch 4y ago
Very cool breakdown! I imagine the engineer(s) who worked on the device's firmware would enjoy seeing this. There's probably some story about companion software that was intended to work with this but never made it to production. Or maybe there was some feature on the backlog for the ability to change the image palette after it's been saved, and the idea was scrapped at the last minute.
mauvehaus 4y ago
If you're looking for a more universally useful Klein tool to start your collection, they make a bottle opener with their signature handle. As an added bonus, then you can confuse your mathematician friends by telling them you have a Klein bottle opener. More practically, their screwdrivers are worlds better than average. The Phillips head tips are ground properly and are less likely to cam out when you don't want them to. They also make slotted drivers with a cabinet tip. They're sold at Home Depot (in the electrical aisle), so you don't have to hunt down an electrical distributor to get them.
- overtonwhy 4y ago
  I can 2nd a recommendation for their screwdrivers!
- convolvatron 4y ago
  their diagonal cutters also remain really high quality, both the ones for #6 wire and the ones more suitable for #28
  - denimnerd42 4y ago
    klein dikes are amazing. I first picked up on them while working in a bike shop. mine kept going dull but my coworker had his klein forever and they still cut stranded derailleur and brake cable cleanly. I used to think dikes were awful due to the poor quality of generics but these are surely worth the $30-35. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/diagonal-cutting-pliers-heavy-duty-high-leverage-8-inch https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/d...
- mturmon 4y ago
  Other classic Klein tools that I'm aware of are the 11-in-1 screwdriver [1] and the linesman's pliers [2]. The linesman's have many uses including hammering down nails or staples or bashing through drywall. You'll see these tools in a lot of tradesman's bags. The Wera screwdrivers are also very nice and noticeably better-performing than standard drivers. [1] e.g., https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multi-bit-nut-drivers/11-1-magnetic-screwdriver-nut-driver https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multi-bit-nut-drivers/11-... [2] e.g., https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/high-leverage-side-cutting-pliers/heavy-duty-lineman-s-pliers-thicker-dipped-handle https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/high-leverage-side-cuttin...
  - smitelli 4y ago
    Those lineman's pliers are ubiquitous to the point where an electrician on a jobsite can say "hand me those Kleins" and everyone knows they mean the pliers.
    - CapitalistCartr 4y ago
      Yup, when I put those in my pocket, then I'm in electrician mode. And if an electrician says his hammer, also means kleins.
  - weaksauce 4y ago
    the 11 in 1 screwdriver is so useful all around. hands down the best screwdriver to have if you only have one. (i got a full set of kleins many years ago as part of a barter exchange and have nothing but praise to give them) the socket portion of the 11-in-1 screwdriver is really handy to use for a lot of the things like pc cases since those have a socket head that makes it really easy to screw (or also Phillips if you want). lots of screws have that 1/4" socket.
  - donthellbanme 4y ago
    Yea, I used to be a electrician in local 6. Their screwdrivers arn't as good as Snapon, but neither do they cost a fortune. My standard commercial job tooling was a side cutter (Klein, or whatever I had at the time), a slotted screwdriver, wire stripper, and drywall knife. I kept my tools in one pocket of my overalls. I learned pretty quick, I didn't need a bunch of tools to do most run of the mill office wiring. My "Kleins" were used as a hammer. Most union electricians really didn't even talk about the brand. They just used their tools. (Tooling has gotten very good these days though. My days of paying more for a name brand in hand tools are over. I got one, actually two complaints while working on PacPell park. An architect complained to my shop boss over my use of the word "Dykes". My nippers were called dykes by my father, and it stuck with me. The architect thought I was referring to her when I said, "Where are my dykes? He told her that is what some guys we call their side cutters, and everything was fine. The second complain was never tied to me, but I was the one urinating in the finished locker rooms. We were suspose to use the porta potties, but they were always far away, and smelled. Oh yea, my initials are on the top of every locker. I put my initials on the pressed wood before the Cherry laminate went on. When there's a remodel, and those lockers are torn out, they will see my initials. Why? I was bored one morning.)
- biomcgary 4y ago
  I had to look up the Klein bottle opener for math reasons (https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/branded-collection/klein-bottle-opener https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/branded-collection/klein-...). The description is delightfully understated. e.g., "Professionally designed and rigorously tested by an expert team to handle both foreign and domestic applications"
  - dunham 4y ago
    I clicked on your link, recognized the logo and realized that I've had a pair of klein wire cutters for the last 30 years. They are my favorite cutters, I found them on the ground when I was a kid, in front of the telephone box in our yard: https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/diagonal-cutting-pliers-bell-system-skinning-holes-6-inch https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/d...
    - calvinmorrison 4y ago
      Klein is for sure world class. I make a point of padding my budget every time I go to the hardware store and now have a Klein for practically any application (automotive mostly) I need.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Linesman’s pliers are often just called “Kleins” by professionals. That’s a pretty good endorsement of quality.
- melony 4y ago
  How do they compare to Fluke quality-wise?
  - CapitalistCartr 4y ago
    Fluke testers are the gold standard in the trades. Electricians often say fluke, meaning tester. Mine is a Fluke 376. Typical.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  this is the math joke for those that missed it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle
- abakker 4y ago
  Their T handle allen wrench sets are also much better than average. I recommend them wholly having used them for a year.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Speaking of screwdrivers there’s a thing called a “demo driver” that is basically a screwdriver that can be used as a chisel. Highly recommended. Here’s Klein’s https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/fixed-blade-screwdrivers/516-inch-keystone-demolition-driver-7-inch-shank https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/fixed-blade-screwdrivers/...
  - larrywright 4y ago
    I don’t have this one but I have a giant Craftsman that I keep in my toolbox to pry or whatever with. A while back I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole of experienced electricians going through their tool bags and talking about what they had and why. Lots of Klein tools of course, they all seem to use Klein or Knipex (or both). But one guy called out the large flathead screwdriver that you can stick in your bag and use as a makeshift pry bar or chisel or whatever. I had one that came as part of a set from Craftsmen that I never used so I stuck it in my tool box. I’ve already used it a handful of times and it takes up almost no space.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      Yup. I have one that gets used anytime I need to pop the cover on my sprinkler valve box. I have to use a smaller flathead to bleed the valves but the giant one pops it open with little effort every time.
      - larrywright 4y ago
        Yep. I never considered it to be useful due to the size and the fact that I rarely encounter flathead screws, but it’s surprisingly handy.
- neilpanchal 4y ago
  Overkill guy here. You need their toolbags. Yes, you do: https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/leather-tool-bags/deluxe-leather-bag-18-inch https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/leather-tool-bags/deluxe-...
harveywi 4y ago
They missed an opportunity to name it the ThermoKlein.
- stochtastic 4y ago
  I love ThermoKlein... but then they'd have needed to engineer it to IPX8 standards to avoid excessive warranty servicing from cranky oceanographers.
hettygreen 4y ago
I really admire the writer of the firmware here. This person spent the extra time to embed the actual data into the image. This is the kinda stuff I'd love to see officially documented in a PDF by the manufacturer, if we actually owned the things we owned. My FLIR camera that I use for electronics only exports in JPEG, with the GUI baked into the image and some pretty crappy JPEG compression artifacts. Lame.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if there were bullshit reasons for explicitly not exposing this information to the user and this was an engineer's way of maliciously complying with that requirement.
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    There's no restriction on exporting raw data. Just on resolution and maximum frame rate. Hence the annoying 9fps limit on FLIR's consumer products. Though I half suspect they also do that for market segmentation since there's a long list of countries that the export restrictions don't apply to. You can easily buy their super expensive cameras which don't have a frame rate limit if you have the money.
  - myself248 4y ago
    There are no legal limitations on the data, just the frame rate. You just pay extra for a model with fully radiometric export. Which is running the same firmware package and just has different options in the signed config file. It's 100% artificial.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      > It's 100% artificial. That was my point when I said "bullshit reasons".
- ReactiveJelly 4y ago
  Same trouble with certain GPS dashcams. The coordinates and date/time are burned into the video, and the font is pure white. So you can extract the info with OCR... unless you point your car into the sun and the glare of the hood blows out the bottom of the image where the text is.
causi 4y ago
If you keep scrolling, you’ll eventually find the same first viable candidate that I did, the Klein Tools TI250 Rechargeable Thermal Imager. Unless you need to actually use it in a rough environment, something like the Seek imager is a far better choice. Three times the thermal resolution at 2/3 the price.
- bavent 4y ago
  Could you link to the one you're talking about? I'd like to check it out.
  - causi 4y ago
    I got a Seek Thermal Compact. https://www.amazon.com/Seek-Thermal-Compact-All-Purpose-MicroUSB/dp/B07RQ3J27Y https://www.amazon.com/Seek-Thermal-Compact-All-Purpose-Micr...
    - bavent 4y ago
      Thanks!
    - f38zf5vdt 4y ago
      > The camera is great but the Seek Thermal app is a privacy spyware tracker. It won't run without location and microphone access. At all... Non-starter for me. FYI. You can just buy FLIR thermal sensors directly and throw them onto a board then use that as a webcam. There's a whole company dedicated to that: https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/getlab https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/getlab
      - causi 4y ago
        It's running just fine after I denied those permissions on my phone.
      - _carbyau_ 4y ago
        I wish I could upvote you more than once. This is awesome. Being able to mix and match the parts/boards to get what you want and all with a standard webcam output. Brilliant.
quercusa 4y ago
You can rent a high-end TIC from Home Depot for about $100/day. I found all kinds of bad insulation and air leaks in my house. I could claim the rental paid for itself but it was so much fun scanning things the entertainment value was worth the price.
post_break 4y ago
This reminds me of when it was discovered you could hack the FLIR E4 into the much more expensive E8 https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e4-thermal-camera-hacked-to-perform-as-high-end-model/ https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e...
sbf501 4y ago
Side note about SD Cards: I recently started writing embedded code to talk to them, and they are a fussy bunch. Several libraries I found on GitHub failed ungracefully and did not report that the card write buffer was overflowing. I wonder if some of this git code is in consumer electronics? Devices should warn you if the card isn't fast enough.
bxparks 4y ago
The Li-Ion battery on the Klein TI250 is not replaceable as far as I can tell. It will be e-waste within 3-5 years. Same with all the FLIR cameras that I came across. The few models with replaceable batteries at my price range were the Fluke VT02/VT04A (4xAA) and VT04 (an 18650 with a custom connector unfortunately). So I went with the Fluke, even though the FLIRs seemed to have better specs.
- 0x38B 4y ago
  To be fair, ordering a battery from AliExpress and opening a device to replace the battery is usually very doable. I have an old Kindle and a USB DAC whose batteries I replaced and they are going strong.
IshKebab 4y ago
> The only real major inconvenience using it is the fact that it constantly pauses to calibrate itself to the temperature range it is being exposed to, a process that freezes the screen and UI for well over a second. Even expensive thermal cameras do that, though they have a setting to disable it (at the cost of losing calibration).
- kortex 4y ago
  The keyword to look for is usually Auto-NUC (non-uniformity correction) or just auto-calibrate. Usually in terms of minimum time and/or temp change.
jdkee 4y ago
"Klein Tools is a manufacturer of hand tools for professional electricians, and they’ve been in that business for over a century and a half. Are they the best at it? Ehh, depends who you ask." Well if you ask any professional electrician they will likely answer "Yes". Our company employed over one hundred IBEW electricians and the universal preference was for Klein hand tools.
- smitelli 4y ago
  I can respect that. I think a lot of preference might boil down to the specific tool in question, along with when it was manufactured. Personally, I prefer Wiha screwdrivers far above any other brand, while Klein makes the best crimper tool[1] I have ever used. [1] https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/combination-cutting-tools/ratcheting-crimper-10-22-awg-insulated-terminals https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/combination-cutting-tools...
mfincham 4y ago
I believe this Klein Tools camera is a re-brand of the Uni-T UTi80P, so probably these tricks apply there as well.
- smitelli 4y ago
  Dang, you're right! Check out this video[1] around 1:35. (Mute it though, seriously.) There's software that pulls the same metadata that I did. Definitely need to do some digging now. EDIT: It's probably a UTi120P given the apparent sensor resolution. Amazing find, nonetheless! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTefQL2qeV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTefQL2qeV0
  - mfincham 4y ago
    Excellent! I have the Uni-T version and it was suspiciously similar :)
s5300 4y ago
Klein Katapult wire strippers are the GOAT strippers for anybody with hobbies that use 8-32 AWG wiring. Especially silicone insulated wiring.
ReactiveJelly 4y ago
> Even in highly-contrasted images, it appears as though every value between 0 and the highest value is used. That means if the high point in a given image has value 254, every value from 0 to 254 appears somewhere in that data. For a second, I thought this was talking about histogram equalization. [1] But I see what he means now, it's weird that there are no discontinuities. But wouldn't a discontinuity happen in a _low_ contrast image? If the thermal sensor only picked up 2 raw values, right next to each other, it would have to assign one to 0 and one to 254, leaving the rest unused. That is, color banding. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram_equalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram_equalization [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding
beprogrammed 4y ago
What a nice little surprise hidden in each image, for those with the skills to look
ssfrr 4y ago
> The only real major inconvenience using it is the fact that it constantly pauses to calibrate itself to the temperature range it is being exposed to, a process that freezes the screen and UI for well over a second. Does anyone know what these thermal cameras are doing when they calibrate? Normally I think of calibration as using some known reference to match your sensor data to, but it’s not clear to me what the reference would be in this case.
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  I don't know the precise answer, but from the article the sensor sets the coldest point in its graph range to 0 and calculates everything else from that. Given that the sensor is probably the most expensive part of this system, I bet that the FPGA or CPU that's running it is struggling to keep up with scanning 10,000 points 7 times a second to find the reference low to calculate everything else from.
- norvvryo 4y ago
  I believe there is an internal shutter that is moved in front of the sensor to give a uniform image, and a nearby temperature sensor to give the image an absolute temperature value.
  - smitelli 4y ago
    It definitely makes an audible click when it enters (and leaves) calibration mode.
VogonPoetry 4y ago
There is a firmware update downloadable on the Klein website. On unpacking, it doesn't look compressed, has a table early on in the data and contains the string STMicroelectronics. So without going any further, I'd bet this has "bare metal" (no OS) code running on some STM32 ARM microcontroller -- for which there are a lot of public tools. i.e. alternate firmware could likely be made for this.
bradknowles 4y ago
Klein Tools are definitely top notch, no question. But so are Knipex. And Wera. For thermal imagers, I prefer the FLIR brand.

245 points by smitelli 4y ago

danw1979 4y ago

Nice little reverse engineering story ! How observant of Scott to notice there was a bunch of extra data in those files…

Starcrunch 4y ago

Very cool breakdown! I imagine the engineer(s) who worked on the device's firmware would enjoy seeing this. There's probably some story about companion software that was intended to work with this but never made it to production. Or maybe there was some feature on the backlog for the ability to change the image palette after it's been saved, and the idea was scrapped at the last minute.

mauvehaus 4y ago

If you're looking for a more universally useful Klein tool to start your collection, they make a bottle opener with their signature handle. As an added bonus, then you can confuse your mathematician friends by telling them you have a Klein bottle opener. More practically, their screwdrivers are worlds better than average. The Phillips head tips are ground properly and are less likely to cam out when you don't want them to. They also make slotted drivers with a cabinet tip. They're sold at Home Depot (in the electrical aisle), so you don't have to hunt down an electrical distributor to get them.

overtonwhy 4y ago
I can 2nd a recommendation for their screwdrivers!
convolvatron 4y ago
their diagonal cutters also remain really high quality, both the ones for #6 wire and the ones more suitable for #28
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  klein dikes are amazing. I first picked up on them while working in a bike shop. mine kept going dull but my coworker had his klein forever and they still cut stranded derailleur and brake cable cleanly. I used to think dikes were awful due to the poor quality of generics but these are surely worth the $30-35. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/diagonal-cutting-pliers-heavy-duty-high-leverage-8-inch https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/d...
mturmon 4y ago
Other classic Klein tools that I'm aware of are the 11-in-1 screwdriver [1] and the linesman's pliers [2]. The linesman's have many uses including hammering down nails or staples or bashing through drywall. You'll see these tools in a lot of tradesman's bags. The Wera screwdrivers are also very nice and noticeably better-performing than standard drivers. [1] e.g., https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multi-bit-nut-drivers/11-1-magnetic-screwdriver-nut-driver https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multi-bit-nut-drivers/11-... [2] e.g., https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/high-leverage-side-cutting-pliers/heavy-duty-lineman-s-pliers-thicker-dipped-handle https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/high-leverage-side-cuttin...
- smitelli 4y ago
  Those lineman's pliers are ubiquitous to the point where an electrician on a jobsite can say "hand me those Kleins" and everyone knows they mean the pliers.
  - CapitalistCartr 4y ago
    Yup, when I put those in my pocket, then I'm in electrician mode. And if an electrician says his hammer, also means kleins.
- weaksauce 4y ago
  the 11 in 1 screwdriver is so useful all around. hands down the best screwdriver to have if you only have one. (i got a full set of kleins many years ago as part of a barter exchange and have nothing but praise to give them) the socket portion of the 11-in-1 screwdriver is really handy to use for a lot of the things like pc cases since those have a socket head that makes it really easy to screw (or also Phillips if you want). lots of screws have that 1/4" socket.
- donthellbanme 4y ago
  Yea, I used to be a electrician in local 6. Their screwdrivers arn't as good as Snapon, but neither do they cost a fortune. My standard commercial job tooling was a side cutter (Klein, or whatever I had at the time), a slotted screwdriver, wire stripper, and drywall knife. I kept my tools in one pocket of my overalls. I learned pretty quick, I didn't need a bunch of tools to do most run of the mill office wiring. My "Kleins" were used as a hammer. Most union electricians really didn't even talk about the brand. They just used their tools. (Tooling has gotten very good these days though. My days of paying more for a name brand in hand tools are over. I got one, actually two complaints while working on PacPell park. An architect complained to my shop boss over my use of the word "Dykes". My nippers were called dykes by my father, and it stuck with me. The architect thought I was referring to her when I said, "Where are my dykes? He told her that is what some guys we call their side cutters, and everything was fine. The second complain was never tied to me, but I was the one urinating in the finished locker rooms. We were suspose to use the porta potties, but they were always far away, and smelled. Oh yea, my initials are on the top of every locker. I put my initials on the pressed wood before the Cherry laminate went on. When there's a remodel, and those lockers are torn out, they will see my initials. Why? I was bored one morning.)
biomcgary 4y ago
I had to look up the Klein bottle opener for math reasons (https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/branded-collection/klein-bottle-opener https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/branded-collection/klein-...). The description is delightfully understated. e.g., "Professionally designed and rigorously tested by an expert team to handle both foreign and domestic applications"
- dunham 4y ago
  I clicked on your link, recognized the logo and realized that I've had a pair of klein wire cutters for the last 30 years. They are my favorite cutters, I found them on the ground when I was a kid, in front of the telephone box in our yard: https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/diagonal-cutting-pliers-bell-system-skinning-holes-6-inch https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/diagonal-cutting-pliers/d...
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    Klein is for sure world class. I make a point of padding my budget every time I go to the hardware store and now have a Klein for practically any application (automotive mostly) I need.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Linesman’s pliers are often just called “Kleins” by professionals. That’s a pretty good endorsement of quality.
melony 4y ago
How do they compare to Fluke quality-wise?
- CapitalistCartr 4y ago
  Fluke testers are the gold standard in the trades. Electricians often say fluke, meaning tester. Mine is a Fluke 376. Typical.
bin_bash 4y ago
this is the math joke for those that missed it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle
abakker 4y ago
Their T handle allen wrench sets are also much better than average. I recommend them wholly having used them for a year.
bombcar 4y ago
Speaking of screwdrivers there’s a thing called a “demo driver” that is basically a screwdriver that can be used as a chisel. Highly recommended. Here’s Klein’s https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/fixed-blade-screwdrivers/516-inch-keystone-demolition-driver-7-inch-shank https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/fixed-blade-screwdrivers/...
- larrywright 4y ago
  I don’t have this one but I have a giant Craftsman that I keep in my toolbox to pry or whatever with. A while back I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole of experienced electricians going through their tool bags and talking about what they had and why. Lots of Klein tools of course, they all seem to use Klein or Knipex (or both). But one guy called out the large flathead screwdriver that you can stick in your bag and use as a makeshift pry bar or chisel or whatever. I had one that came as part of a set from Craftsmen that I never used so I stuck it in my tool box. I’ve already used it a handful of times and it takes up almost no space.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    Yup. I have one that gets used anytime I need to pop the cover on my sprinkler valve box. I have to use a smaller flathead to bleed the valves but the giant one pops it open with little effort every time.
    - larrywright 4y ago
      Yep. I never considered it to be useful due to the size and the fact that I rarely encounter flathead screws, but it’s surprisingly handy.
neilpanchal 4y ago
Overkill guy here. You need their toolbags. Yes, you do: https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/leather-tool-bags/deluxe-leather-bag-18-inch https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/leather-tool-bags/deluxe-...

harveywi 4y ago

They missed an opportunity to name it the ThermoKlein.

stochtastic 4y ago
I love ThermoKlein... but then they'd have needed to engineer it to IPX8 standards to avoid excessive warranty servicing from cranky oceanographers.

hettygreen 4y ago

I really admire the writer of the firmware here. This person spent the extra time to embed the actual data into the image. This is the kinda stuff I'd love to see officially documented in a PDF by the manufacturer, if we actually owned the things we owned. My FLIR camera that I use for electronics only exports in JPEG, with the GUI baked into the image and some pretty crappy JPEG compression artifacts. Lame.

Nextgrid 4y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if there were bullshit reasons for explicitly not exposing this information to the user and this was an engineer's way of maliciously complying with that requirement.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  There's no restriction on exporting raw data. Just on resolution and maximum frame rate. Hence the annoying 9fps limit on FLIR's consumer products. Though I half suspect they also do that for market segmentation since there's a long list of countries that the export restrictions don't apply to. You can easily buy their super expensive cameras which don't have a frame rate limit if you have the money.
- myself248 4y ago
  There are no legal limitations on the data, just the frame rate. You just pay extra for a model with fully radiometric export. Which is running the same firmware package and just has different options in the signed config file. It's 100% artificial.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    > It's 100% artificial. That was my point when I said "bullshit reasons".
ReactiveJelly 4y ago
Same trouble with certain GPS dashcams. The coordinates and date/time are burned into the video, and the font is pure white. So you can extract the info with OCR... unless you point your car into the sun and the glare of the hood blows out the bottom of the image where the text is.

causi 4y ago

If you keep scrolling, you’ll eventually find the same first viable candidate that I did, the Klein Tools TI250 Rechargeable Thermal Imager. Unless you need to actually use it in a rough environment, something like the Seek imager is a far better choice. Three times the thermal resolution at 2/3 the price.

bavent 4y ago
Could you link to the one you're talking about? I'd like to check it out.
- causi 4y ago
  I got a Seek Thermal Compact. https://www.amazon.com/Seek-Thermal-Compact-All-Purpose-MicroUSB/dp/B07RQ3J27Y https://www.amazon.com/Seek-Thermal-Compact-All-Purpose-Micr...
  - bavent 4y ago
    Thanks!
  - f38zf5vdt 4y ago
    > The camera is great but the Seek Thermal app is a privacy spyware tracker. It won't run without location and microphone access. At all... Non-starter for me. FYI. You can just buy FLIR thermal sensors directly and throw them onto a board then use that as a webcam. There's a whole company dedicated to that: https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/getlab https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/getlab
    - causi 4y ago
      It's running just fine after I denied those permissions on my phone.
    - _carbyau_ 4y ago
      I wish I could upvote you more than once. This is awesome. Being able to mix and match the parts/boards to get what you want and all with a standard webcam output. Brilliant.

quercusa 4y ago

You can rent a high-end TIC from Home Depot for about $100/day. I found all kinds of bad insulation and air leaks in my house. I could claim the rental paid for itself but it was so much fun scanning things the entertainment value was worth the price.

post_break 4y ago

This reminds me of when it was discovered you could hack the FLIR E4 into the much more expensive E8 https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e4-thermal-camera-hacked-to-perform-as-high-end-model/ https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e...

sbf501 4y ago

Side note about SD Cards: I recently started writing embedded code to talk to them, and they are a fussy bunch. Several libraries I found on GitHub failed ungracefully and did not report that the card write buffer was overflowing. I wonder if some of this git code is in consumer electronics? Devices should warn you if the card isn't fast enough.

bxparks 4y ago

The Li-Ion battery on the Klein TI250 is not replaceable as far as I can tell. It will be e-waste within 3-5 years. Same with all the FLIR cameras that I came across. The few models with replaceable batteries at my price range were the Fluke VT02/VT04A (4xAA) and VT04 (an 18650 with a custom connector unfortunately). So I went with the Fluke, even though the FLIRs seemed to have better specs.

0x38B 4y ago
To be fair, ordering a battery from AliExpress and opening a device to replace the battery is usually very doable. I have an old Kindle and a USB DAC whose batteries I replaced and they are going strong.

IshKebab 4y ago

> The only real major inconvenience using it is the fact that it constantly pauses to calibrate itself to the temperature range it is being exposed to, a process that freezes the screen and UI for well over a second. Even expensive thermal cameras do that, though they have a setting to disable it (at the cost of losing calibration).

kortex 4y ago
The keyword to look for is usually Auto-NUC (non-uniformity correction) or just auto-calibrate. Usually in terms of minimum time and/or temp change.

jdkee 4y ago

"Klein Tools is a manufacturer of hand tools for professional electricians, and they’ve been in that business for over a century and a half. Are they the best at it? Ehh, depends who you ask." Well if you ask any professional electrician they will likely answer "Yes". Our company employed over one hundred IBEW electricians and the universal preference was for Klein hand tools.

smitelli 4y ago
I can respect that. I think a lot of preference might boil down to the specific tool in question, along with when it was manufactured. Personally, I prefer Wiha screwdrivers far above any other brand, while Klein makes the best crimper tool[1] I have ever used. [1] https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/combination-cutting-tools/ratcheting-crimper-10-22-awg-insulated-terminals https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/combination-cutting-tools...

mfincham 4y ago

I believe this Klein Tools camera is a re-brand of the Uni-T UTi80P, so probably these tricks apply there as well.

smitelli 4y ago
Dang, you're right! Check out this video[1] around 1:35. (Mute it though, seriously.) There's software that pulls the same metadata that I did. Definitely need to do some digging now. EDIT: It's probably a UTi120P given the apparent sensor resolution. Amazing find, nonetheless! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTefQL2qeV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTefQL2qeV0
- mfincham 4y ago
  Excellent! I have the Uni-T version and it was suspiciously similar :)

s5300 4y ago

Klein Katapult wire strippers are the GOAT strippers for anybody with hobbies that use 8-32 AWG wiring. Especially silicone insulated wiring.

ReactiveJelly 4y ago

> Even in highly-contrasted images, it appears as though every value between 0 and the highest value is used. That means if the high point in a given image has value 254, every value from 0 to 254 appears somewhere in that data. For a second, I thought this was talking about histogram equalization. [1] But I see what he means now, it's weird that there are no discontinuities. But wouldn't a discontinuity happen in a _low_ contrast image? If the thermal sensor only picked up 2 raw values, right next to each other, it would have to assign one to 0 and one to 254, leaving the rest unused. That is, color banding. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram_equalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram_equalization [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding

beprogrammed 4y ago

What a nice little surprise hidden in each image, for those with the skills to look

ssfrr 4y ago

> The only real major inconvenience using it is the fact that it constantly pauses to calibrate itself to the temperature range it is being exposed to, a process that freezes the screen and UI for well over a second. Does anyone know what these thermal cameras are doing when they calibrate? Normally I think of calibration as using some known reference to match your sensor data to, but it’s not clear to me what the reference would be in this case.

BizarroLand 4y ago
I don't know the precise answer, but from the article the sensor sets the coldest point in its graph range to 0 and calculates everything else from that. Given that the sensor is probably the most expensive part of this system, I bet that the FPGA or CPU that's running it is struggling to keep up with scanning 10,000 points 7 times a second to find the reference low to calculate everything else from.
norvvryo 4y ago
I believe there is an internal shutter that is moved in front of the sensor to give a uniform image, and a nearby temperature sensor to give the image an absolute temperature value.
- smitelli 4y ago
  It definitely makes an audible click when it enters (and leaves) calibration mode.

VogonPoetry 4y ago

There is a firmware update downloadable on the Klein website. On unpacking, it doesn't look compressed, has a table early on in the data and contains the string STMicroelectronics. So without going any further, I'd bet this has "bare metal" (no OS) code running on some STM32 ARM microcontroller -- for which there are a lot of public tools. i.e. alternate firmware could likely be made for this.

bradknowles 4y ago

Klein Tools are definitely top notch, no question. But so are Knipex. And Wera. For thermal imagers, I prefer the FLIR brand.