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> Soundararajan appealed directly to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, who comes from an upper-caste family in India, to allow her presentation to go forward. But the t

by rob74 4y ago

> Soundararajan appealed directly to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, who comes from an upper-caste family in India, to allow her presentation to go forward. But the talk was canceled, leading some employees to conclude that Google was willfully ignoring caste bias. > Pichai, the CEO, “is Indian and he is Brahmin and he grew up in Tamil Nadu. There is no way you grow up in Tamil Nadu and not know about caste because of how caste politics shaped the conversation,” Soundararajan told The Post. “If he can make passionate statements about Google’s [diversity equity and inclusion] commitments in the wake of George Floyd, he absolutely should be making those same commitments to the context he comes from where he is someone of privilege.” Sounds like Mr. Pichai has some explaining to do...

jcranberry 4y ago
>According to Gupta’s letter and Soundararajan, the decision to cancel the talk came from Gupta’s boss, Cathy Edwards, a vice president of engineering, who had no experience or expertise in caste. Truly puzzling decision.
- dekhn 4y ago
  Nothing abot this is puzzling. beneath the surface of Google's attempts to "look happy", there is a huge amount of resentment between individuals, and between individuals and leadership. Even when I joined in 2007 it was noticeable, but by the time I left (the second time) in 2019, it was painfully obvious. Sundar's goal has been to smooth over this resentment and prevent events that would exacerbate it. That often occurs by cancelling a venue for discussion/healing. GOogle sort of evolved itself into a state of weaponized progressivism, and is now realizing just how unrealistic its naive view of using technology to transform the world for good was, and how it needs to turn into everything that it said it wasn't to continue to succeed in the face of more determined competitors.
newsclues 4y ago
He doesn’t have explaining to do because he holds the power and is choosing not to.
devnull3 4y ago
I doubt it. In fact attrocities on brahmins is rarely discussed [1]. Infact his state TamilNadu there is a strong anti-brahminism sentiment in political sphere. This is one of the reason why lot of upper-caste men/women go outside India. [1] https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/the-brahmin-files-why-atrocities-on-brahmins-remain-one-of-the-best-kept-secrets-in-independent-india-10555251.html https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/the-brahmin-files-why-atro...
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Doesn’t excuse any discriminatory behavior here in the States. Or, frankly, even in India.
  - devnull3 4y ago
    I never said that. Just because Sundar is of certain caste does not mean he has explaining to do. It's like holding any white British person to explain all the bad things British did in their colonies.
  - thunkshift1 4y ago
    Don’t assume guilt based on association or membership to a class. Thats a form of discrimination too. Pichai is brahmin so he has some explanation to do—> no he doesnt. Its like asking any white man to explain why us cops are killing black folks.
hirako2000 4y ago
It's rather you to work on the explaining there. Pichai isn't claiming to be unaware of how caste politics may work. I think it's not only OK but desirable for companies to stop ruining the workplace with societal politics. There is a law and public debates for castes and how to address the (no doubt existing even outside India) problem. Prompting an employee of a tech company, even its CEO, reminding the audience of its ethnical background is what i find suspect.
- heretogetout 4y ago
  I don't think workplaces should operate outside of and without influence from society. They're just a group of people in a building (metaphorical or otherwise).
- bgdam 4y ago
  > There is a law and public debates for castes and how to address the (no doubt existing even outside India) problem. That's kinda part of the problem. In India there are laws dealing with caste based oppression and discrimination (how well they are enforced is another story). But in most other countries such laws do not exist. And caste-based discrimination is exceptionally easily and silently accomplished because for a vast majority of Indians, your last name gives away your caste.
  - hirako2000 4y ago
    That's right, in the West at wide they roll up to anti discrimination laws, agreed they probably don't tackle the very specific problem castes pose, I would much rather have anti discrimination encompass them in a more generic form to tackle all forms of discrimination based on "classes" than making it an indian caste problem. I fail to see how the unambiguous distinction in names makes the problem solving any easier, it isn't only about identification, and if that identification is used to implement quotas or whatnot, since that's how companies then read the law, it will 1/ create a new problem, 2/ suddenly see a lot of people change their name for "business" purposes.
    - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by rob74 4y ago

jcranberry 4y ago

>According to Gupta’s letter and Soundararajan, the decision to cancel the talk came from Gupta’s boss, Cathy Edwards, a vice president of engineering, who had no experience or expertise in caste. Truly puzzling decision.

dekhn 4y ago
Nothing abot this is puzzling. beneath the surface of Google's attempts to "look happy", there is a huge amount of resentment between individuals, and between individuals and leadership. Even when I joined in 2007 it was noticeable, but by the time I left (the second time) in 2019, it was painfully obvious. Sundar's goal has been to smooth over this resentment and prevent events that would exacerbate it. That often occurs by cancelling a venue for discussion/healing. GOogle sort of evolved itself into a state of weaponized progressivism, and is now realizing just how unrealistic its naive view of using technology to transform the world for good was, and how it needs to turn into everything that it said it wasn't to continue to succeed in the face of more determined competitors.

newsclues 4y ago

He doesn’t have explaining to do because he holds the power and is choosing not to.

devnull3 4y ago

I doubt it. In fact attrocities on brahmins is rarely discussed [1]. Infact his state TamilNadu there is a strong anti-brahminism sentiment in political sphere. This is one of the reason why lot of upper-caste men/women go outside India. [1] https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/the-brahmin-files-why-atrocities-on-brahmins-remain-one-of-the-best-kept-secrets-in-independent-india-10555251.html https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/the-brahmin-files-why-atro...

ethanbond 4y ago
Doesn’t excuse any discriminatory behavior here in the States. Or, frankly, even in India.
- devnull3 4y ago
  I never said that. Just because Sundar is of certain caste does not mean he has explaining to do. It's like holding any white British person to explain all the bad things British did in their colonies.
- thunkshift1 4y ago
  Don’t assume guilt based on association or membership to a class. Thats a form of discrimination too. Pichai is brahmin so he has some explanation to do—> no he doesnt. Its like asking any white man to explain why us cops are killing black folks.

hirako2000 4y ago

It's rather you to work on the explaining there. Pichai isn't claiming to be unaware of how caste politics may work. I think it's not only OK but desirable for companies to stop ruining the workplace with societal politics. There is a law and public debates for castes and how to address the (no doubt existing even outside India) problem. Prompting an employee of a tech company, even its CEO, reminding the audience of its ethnical background is what i find suspect.

heretogetout 4y ago
I don't think workplaces should operate outside of and without influence from society. They're just a group of people in a building (metaphorical or otherwise).
bgdam 4y ago
> There is a law and public debates for castes and how to address the (no doubt existing even outside India) problem. That's kinda part of the problem. In India there are laws dealing with caste based oppression and discrimination (how well they are enforced is another story). But in most other countries such laws do not exist. And caste-based discrimination is exceptionally easily and silently accomplished because for a vast majority of Indians, your last name gives away your caste.
- hirako2000 4y ago
  That's right, in the West at wide they roll up to anti discrimination laws, agreed they probably don't tackle the very specific problem castes pose, I would much rather have anti discrimination encompass them in a more generic form to tackle all forms of discrimination based on "classes" than making it an indian caste problem. I fail to see how the unambiguous distinction in names makes the problem solving any easier, it isn't only about identification, and if that identification is used to implement quotas or whatnot, since that's how companies then read the law, it will 1/ create a new problem, 2/ suddenly see a lot of people change their name for "business" purposes.
  - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]