4 ms·

"being in the office will be how you get noticed and advance in your career. " In every job I had working from the office I didn't have to get noticed before q

"being in the office will be how you get noticed and advance in your career. " In every job I had working from the office I didn't have to get noticed before quitting for a better job and advancing my career.

timr 4y ago
The exception makes the rule. If you're truly working a job where you only advance by leaving, then you likely aren't in a position where you can advance at all. Or you are in such a job, but you've neglected the value of visibility to your career growth (PSA: this is far too common amongst programmers). It certainly happens, but it's not a counterargument to what I'm saying.
- MrPatan 4y ago
  I'm not the exception, I'm the rule.
- Johnny555 4y ago
  If you want to make big advances in your career and/or compensation, getting a new job will get you there faster. Advancing within a company is almost always a very slow process with minimal rewards - you get to move to a new salary band, but that doesn't result in a big jump in salary.
  - timr 4y ago
    Sure. But there are other steps that matter on the way. Want to get on the interesting project, which lets you put the big accomplishment on your resume? Want to get more responsibility, which lets you tell the recruiter that you've done the $essential_thing they're seeking for that better job? It always helps to be visible, even if your long-term plan is to job hop into infinity (though I have to say this as another PSA: job-hopping will eventually stop working. It's a notably programmer-since-2012 phenomenon to assume that leaping from place to place will result in a monotonic increase in your salary and/or prestige forever and ever.)
    - Clubber 4y ago
      >Want to get on the interesting project, which lets you put the big accomplishment on your resume? Smart managers pick the best people if the project is important, they certainly won't pick a mediocre developer just because he shows up in the office every day. Attendance is no replacement for hard work and aptitude, unless you are in high school. >It always helps to be visible It does, but filling a seat in a cube isn't the best way. The best way is to solve business problems. >It's a notably programmer-since-2012 phenomenon to assume that leaping from place to place will result in a monotonic increase in your salary and/or prestige forever and ever. I don't think anyone thinks it's forever. There's certainly a cap to how much you can earn as a software developer/engineer/architect/x working for someone. There are exceptions where you can negotiate some equity or percentage of revenue, but you almost certainly can't do that outside the initial offer phase. In other words, you won't get it at the company where you are already employed; the negotiation window is most likely closed forever. I doubled my salary 2x from 1998-2001. Then the dot bomb happened, but it's not a new phenomenon. Companies that hire for x amount only give y% when giving out raises. It's pretty close to inflation. The trick to having a larger salary is to get hired with a larger salary, full stop. I wish it wasn't that way, I usually like staying at a company for a while, but as long as traditional raises are 2-5%, that's what the hiring market wants.
- MrStonedOne 4y ago
- ReflectedImage 4y ago
  Programmers advance by job hopping. There is more budget for attracting new talent than retaining old talent. It's sad but true.

timr 4y ago

The exception makes the rule. If you're truly working a job where you only advance by leaving, then you likely aren't in a position where you can advance at all. Or you are in such a job, but you've neglected the value of visibility to your career growth (PSA: this is far too common amongst programmers). It certainly happens, but it's not a counterargument to what I'm saying.

MrPatan 4y ago
I'm not the exception, I'm the rule.
Johnny555 4y ago
If you want to make big advances in your career and/or compensation, getting a new job will get you there faster. Advancing within a company is almost always a very slow process with minimal rewards - you get to move to a new salary band, but that doesn't result in a big jump in salary.
- timr 4y ago
  Sure. But there are other steps that matter on the way. Want to get on the interesting project, which lets you put the big accomplishment on your resume? Want to get more responsibility, which lets you tell the recruiter that you've done the $essential_thing they're seeking for that better job? It always helps to be visible, even if your long-term plan is to job hop into infinity (though I have to say this as another PSA: job-hopping will eventually stop working. It's a notably programmer-since-2012 phenomenon to assume that leaping from place to place will result in a monotonic increase in your salary and/or prestige forever and ever.)
  - Clubber 4y ago
    >Want to get on the interesting project, which lets you put the big accomplishment on your resume? Smart managers pick the best people if the project is important, they certainly won't pick a mediocre developer just because he shows up in the office every day. Attendance is no replacement for hard work and aptitude, unless you are in high school. >It always helps to be visible It does, but filling a seat in a cube isn't the best way. The best way is to solve business problems. >It's a notably programmer-since-2012 phenomenon to assume that leaping from place to place will result in a monotonic increase in your salary and/or prestige forever and ever. I don't think anyone thinks it's forever. There's certainly a cap to how much you can earn as a software developer/engineer/architect/x working for someone. There are exceptions where you can negotiate some equity or percentage of revenue, but you almost certainly can't do that outside the initial offer phase. In other words, you won't get it at the company where you are already employed; the negotiation window is most likely closed forever. I doubled my salary 2x from 1998-2001. Then the dot bomb happened, but it's not a new phenomenon. Companies that hire for x amount only give y% when giving out raises. It's pretty close to inflation. The trick to having a larger salary is to get hired with a larger salary, full stop. I wish it wasn't that way, I usually like staying at a company for a while, but as long as traditional raises are 2-5%, that's what the hiring market wants.
MrStonedOne 4y ago
ReflectedImage 4y ago
Programmers advance by job hopping. There is more budget for attracting new talent than retaining old talent. It's sad but true.