5 ms·

New type of 3D printing uses sound waves to build up objects

memco 4y ago
So it sounds like the novel feature is that it can print something inside of something else, but the article doesn’t say what’s required to make that happen: if I’m going to repair a plane fuselage or some surgical implant: how do I get the material inside to print? Does the fuselage require the material inside already? How do we inject the material inside of a patient for an implant?
- RationPhantoms 4y ago
  Maybe you don't see the graphic but in relation to your last question, they're literally using a syringe to do it.
  - memco 4y ago
    I see. So you can inject some material through a very small opening and print the full size piece in place.
- bozhark 4y ago
  Multiphoton is the only true form of printing inside of a substance
bayesian_horse 4y ago
I had expected them to use something like a phased array to focus and "scan" the soundwaves electronically, but that doesn't seem to be what they're after. Overall this method can work with different materials from the usual UV-curable resin stuff.
xwdv 4y ago
What if there’s a print error, how do you extract the material?
- AustinDev 4y ago
  Surgery
  - hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
    I imagine a solvent could be injected in that liquifies the 3d print so it could be sucked out. Maybe they've already thought of this.
    - kadoban 4y ago
      Doesn't seem like there's going to be many solvents that are safe to inject. Water, but if it's water soluble, you have other issues.
snarfy 4y ago
The mechanism reminds me of sonoluminescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence
upupandup 4y ago
bit off topic but could it possible to create "virtual objects" that can be moved around, provide/detect tactility? I know I've been obsessing with this since I read someones comment on here but you would essentially use sound waves to "conjure up" objects in a room that has ultrasound devices on walls, ceilings, floor etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOnxr9Ez_Kc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOnxr9Ez_Kc
- marcusverus 4y ago
  When interacting with a real (solid) object, you only ever interact with its surface. When you touch a ball, you feel its surface. If you press into the surface, you feel that resistance as increased pressure (near-instantaneously) and you gain a lot of information about he object by that sensation (consider the difference between poking a balloon vs. an anvil) and by the reaction of the object. With sonic "virtual objects", there would be no resistance, meaning you couldn't really interact with the object in a normal sense (your hand would just pass into/through it). Even if the "user" were to understand this, it seems like the range of experience would be very limited. Without any sensations associated with resistance, could you make a balloon feel any different than an anvil? I've spent some time thinking about this in the past, so please forgive the random tangent: IMO, the creation of virtual objects that can be interacted with and perceived as real objects will require a combination of haptic garments and exoskeletons. The haptic garments would manage any minor sensations (the fuzzy texture of a kiwi), while the exoskeleton would apply force / prevent motion. That way, if you try to poke a virtual balloon, you feel a minute jolt of resistance at the moment of contact. If you poke an anvil, you feel your finger come to a dead stop, with all of that force on your fingertip conveying the sensation of poking a heavy, stationary object. It seems like a suit could simulate a lot of object interactions. Imagine hefting a virtual stone in your hand. You feel its texture on the palm of your hand via the haptic glove, while the exo-suit conveys the weight as downward force, applied at the wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints.
  - pokeymcsnatch 4y ago
    The virtual object could be relative to the person interacting with it rather than a stationary zone in space. With sound waves, for example, it could be something like a tightly focused beam combined with motion/finger/hand tracking... As your hand moves along the "object", the beam is constantly re-aimed (at the hand) and re-adjusted in real time to give you the sensation of feeling around the profile. No suit required.
hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
Neat. It's an old process being used in a new way. Ultrasonic soundwaves are already used to melt plastic, and is used for ultrasonic welding of plastics. It works really well for certain use cases.
1024core 4y ago
Once the resin solidifies, won't that impact the sound waves' ability to pass through the solidified region?
- trident5000 4y ago
  It probably goes furthest to nearest so that scenario never becomes an issue.
verisimi 4y ago
Is this the same principle as ultrasound scans? And microwave ovens?
dtgriscom 4y ago
Pet peeve: > the temperature inside them rises to about 15,000 degrees Kelvin (14,727 °C or 26,540 °F) and the pressure within them climbs to over 1,000 bar (14,504 psi) Those conversions are way too precise. The initial values have 1-2 digits of precision; the converted numbers have 4-5. Should be: > the temperature inside them rises to about 15,000 degrees Kelvin (14,700 ºC or 26,000 ºF) and the pressure within them climbs to over 1,000 bar (14,500 psi). and even those are probably too precise.
pontifier 4y ago
I had a flash of insight a few years ago that the real way to think about 3d printing. We can separate "data transfer" about desired solid regions in a volume, from what I call "locking". Once I made this transition in thinking, I saw hundreds of new ways to do 3D printing. Ultrasound was only one of a huge multitude of other "data transfer" techniques that just kind of felt obvious all of a sudden.
- bronze 4y ago
  Have a look at this: https://opg.optica.org/ol/abstract.cfm?uri=ol-47-5-1279 https://opg.optica.org/ol/abstract.cfm?uri=ol-47-5-1279 Matches 100% what you're saying: use low intensity uv to write the spatial area you want to solidify, and when you're done flood cure it all together.

So it sounds like the novel feature is that it can print something inside of something else, but the article doesn’t say what’s required to make that happen: if I’m going to repair a plane fuselage or some surgical implant: how do I get the material inside to print? Does the fuselage require the material inside already? How do we inject the material inside of a patient for an implant?

RationPhantoms 4y ago
Maybe you don't see the graphic but in relation to your last question, they're literally using a syringe to do it.
- memco 4y ago
  I see. So you can inject some material through a very small opening and print the full size piece in place.
bozhark 4y ago
Multiphoton is the only true form of printing inside of a substance

bayesian_horse 4y ago

I had expected them to use something like a phased array to focus and "scan" the soundwaves electronically, but that doesn't seem to be what they're after. Overall this method can work with different materials from the usual UV-curable resin stuff.

xwdv 4y ago

What if there’s a print error, how do you extract the material?

AustinDev 4y ago
Surgery
- hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
  I imagine a solvent could be injected in that liquifies the 3d print so it could be sucked out. Maybe they've already thought of this.
  - kadoban 4y ago
    Doesn't seem like there's going to be many solvents that are safe to inject. Water, but if it's water soluble, you have other issues.

snarfy 4y ago

The mechanism reminds me of sonoluminescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence

upupandup 4y ago

bit off topic but could it possible to create "virtual objects" that can be moved around, provide/detect tactility? I know I've been obsessing with this since I read someones comment on here but you would essentially use sound waves to "conjure up" objects in a room that has ultrasound devices on walls, ceilings, floor etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOnxr9Ez_Kc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOnxr9Ez_Kc

marcusverus 4y ago
When interacting with a real (solid) object, you only ever interact with its surface. When you touch a ball, you feel its surface. If you press into the surface, you feel that resistance as increased pressure (near-instantaneously) and you gain a lot of information about he object by that sensation (consider the difference between poking a balloon vs. an anvil) and by the reaction of the object. With sonic "virtual objects", there would be no resistance, meaning you couldn't really interact with the object in a normal sense (your hand would just pass into/through it). Even if the "user" were to understand this, it seems like the range of experience would be very limited. Without any sensations associated with resistance, could you make a balloon feel any different than an anvil? I've spent some time thinking about this in the past, so please forgive the random tangent: IMO, the creation of virtual objects that can be interacted with and perceived as real objects will require a combination of haptic garments and exoskeletons. The haptic garments would manage any minor sensations (the fuzzy texture of a kiwi), while the exoskeleton would apply force / prevent motion. That way, if you try to poke a virtual balloon, you feel a minute jolt of resistance at the moment of contact. If you poke an anvil, you feel your finger come to a dead stop, with all of that force on your fingertip conveying the sensation of poking a heavy, stationary object. It seems like a suit could simulate a lot of object interactions. Imagine hefting a virtual stone in your hand. You feel its texture on the palm of your hand via the haptic glove, while the exo-suit conveys the weight as downward force, applied at the wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints.
- pokeymcsnatch 4y ago
  The virtual object could be relative to the person interacting with it rather than a stationary zone in space. With sound waves, for example, it could be something like a tightly focused beam combined with motion/finger/hand tracking... As your hand moves along the "object", the beam is constantly re-aimed (at the hand) and re-adjusted in real time to give you the sensation of feeling around the profile. No suit required.

hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago

Neat. It's an old process being used in a new way. Ultrasonic soundwaves are already used to melt plastic, and is used for ultrasonic welding of plastics. It works really well for certain use cases.

1024core 4y ago

Once the resin solidifies, won't that impact the sound waves' ability to pass through the solidified region?

trident5000 4y ago
It probably goes furthest to nearest so that scenario never becomes an issue.

verisimi 4y ago

Is this the same principle as ultrasound scans? And microwave ovens?

dtgriscom 4y ago

Pet peeve: > the temperature inside them rises to about 15,000 degrees Kelvin (14,727 °C or 26,540 °F) and the pressure within them climbs to over 1,000 bar (14,504 psi) Those conversions are way too precise. The initial values have 1-2 digits of precision; the converted numbers have 4-5. Should be: > the temperature inside them rises to about 15,000 degrees Kelvin (14,700 ºC or 26,000 ºF) and the pressure within them climbs to over 1,000 bar (14,500 psi). and even those are probably too precise.

pontifier 4y ago

I had a flash of insight a few years ago that the real way to think about 3d printing. We can separate "data transfer" about desired solid regions in a volume, from what I call "locking". Once I made this transition in thinking, I saw hundreds of new ways to do 3D printing. Ultrasound was only one of a huge multitude of other "data transfer" techniques that just kind of felt obvious all of a sudden.

bronze 4y ago
Have a look at this: https://opg.optica.org/ol/abstract.cfm?uri=ol-47-5-1279 https://opg.optica.org/ol/abstract.cfm?uri=ol-47-5-1279 Matches 100% what you're saying: use low intensity uv to write the spatial area you want to solidify, and when you're done flood cure it all together.