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U.S. task force recommending anxiety screening in kids 8 and older
- greatpostman 4y agoI would keep children away from doctors whose only solution is medication. Much better that they weather through mental issues and come out a normal adult. Medication when taken young, which is almost certainly what this would cause, can be very hard to get off of
- voisin 4y agoPerhaps rather than medication we could take a closer look at why children are so anxious in the first place. I envy countries that focus on Gross National Happiness vs GDP.
- willcipriano 4y ago> However, studies also estimate that upward of 10% to 21% of children and adolescents struggle with an anxiety disorder If 10% to 21% of kids had some sort of minor physical aliment we wouldn't be content to just treat it and not question why it is happening.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> If 10% to 21% of kids had some sort of minor physical aliment we wouldn't be content to just treat it and not question why it is happening. It's almost like the article should highlight the need for prevention as well as screening which (checks) it does.
- b112 4y agoTeenagers are undergoing a flood of hormones, with a fast growing intellect (as their brains continue to develop), while their emotions are playing catch up. Teenagers are supposed to be awkward and feel anxiety, amongst endless other emotions in excess. It's a normal part of growing into an adult. Take away the act of learning how to deal with all this new emotion, and emotional intensity, and a human's growth will be stunted.
- Shared404 4y agoI agree with the core of what you are saying. However, space needs to be provided to do that growth safely, and in order to that there would need to be massive changes in Sign-up-for-everything parenting culture, A's-or-die school culture, and a myriad of other things in order for this to work. As it is, this culture takes the fire and throws gasoline on it, preventing healthy growth. Even outside of that, there is a balance to be struck - while some amount of anxiety/awkwardness is expected, if it leads to suicidal thoughts, self harm, lashing out at others, or other destructive behavior, it has gone to far.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Teenagers are undergoing a flood of hormones Most children are not teenagers. > Teenagers are supposed to be awkward and feel anxiety Diagnosable anxiety is not “feeling anxiety” in the common sense any more than diagnosable depression is “feeling sad”. > Take away the act of learning how to deal with all this new emotion No one, ever, has argued for that. Where treatment is required for childhood anxiety, talk therapy — often CBT — seems to me the first-line treatment. Which is exactly learning how to recognize and deal with problematic feelings.
- misslibby 4y agoA huge number thinks they will die because of global warming. Relentless propaganda aimed at kids takes its toll.
- legalcorrection 4y agoYeah it’s jarring when you see what teenagers post online about this. They really believe that they and their friends are going to drop dead from climate change.
- gedy 4y agoReminds me of high school in the cold war: "Why bother? The bombs are coming any day!"
- misslibby 4y agoThat is why I disapprove of all the fear-mongering. I lived through that as a teen, and it was very depressing. I honestly thought I would never see my 30ieth birthday, either because of nukes or because of the hole in the ozone layer.
- Shared404 4y agoGiven the number of "Once in a lifetime events" I as an early 20 year old have lived through, I entirely understand the feeling of everything is going to collapse. The house is made of cards, and there are people running around trying collect more cards than everyone else - even when those are at the base. Meanwhile, someones turned up the AC at one end of the house and the heater at the other, and we've got weird air currents blowing every which way.
- legalcorrection 4y ago
- Shared404 4y ago
- curuinor 4y agothats just bhutan bhutan's an absolute autocratic kingdom, it's just that the king is oxford-educated and does a lot of the usual enlightened monarchy stuff and seems a decent enough man. if his son is a little shit or he gets a stroke or something, that all goes down the toilet
- curuinor 4y agoas one of the sibling comments noted, the king's father was kinda a little shit too, so you really don't know on that rolling of the dice, basically
- corazortez 4y agoThe only country that focuses on GNH is Bhutan. The same country which exiled an entire ethnicity constituting 20% of its population in the 1990s. [1] UN happiness report ranks Bhutan at 97th, Finland being first and the US at 17.[2] Bhutan’s GNH campaign is a clever marketing strategy by an autocratic government to boost its tourism revenue (main source of income), cover up its frequent human right violations, and abject poverty of the common people all at the same time. Romanticising Bhutan is a new form of orientialism. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutanese_refugees https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutanese_refugees 2. https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2022/happiness-benevolence-and-trust-during-covid-19-and-beyond/#ranking-of-happiness-2019-2021 https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2022/happiness-benevolence-...
- voisin 4y agoI didn’t realize only Bhutan had this metric. I was referring to Scandinavian countries which seem to be the context I’ve heard it in, but must be mistaken. In any event, I envy the concept and wish more countries adopted it.
- mardifoufs 4y agoYou might have a very skewed view of those countries. Things happen there too, you just don't hear about it. Policies proposals that would draw bipartisan condemnation in the US and be unanimously rejected across the aisle might not even get any meaningful opposition in the "happy nordics". Here's a very troubling example that is happening right now: Denmark is currently deporting back to syria all of its syrian refugees. They revoked their residency almost overnight and declared that Syria is now safe even if the Civil war is far from over. Considering that the groups that those refugees originally escaped from are still in power (whether it's Assad or the islamists), it basically means certain death for a lot of them (even those lucky enough to avoid reprisals will probably end up forcibly conscripted). They also argue that Damascus is completely safe for refugees who specifically escaped the syrian government security services (gestapo lite)... because that same government is now fully in control and has pacified the entire region. >In 2019, the Danish prime minister declared that Denmark wanted ‘zero asylum seekers’. That was a really strong signal* >That's really good news," Mr Tesfaye said in February. "Corona, of course, plays a role, but I think first and foremost, it's because of our strict foreign policy. Many of those who come here do not need protection at all." >The government has set a target of zero, arguing that the money saved can go towards welfare[0] The most troubling part is that all of this is happening under a "moderate" left wing government with pretty wide support and little to no actual backlash. So yeah, I'd be hesitant to use nordic countries as a model for everything. It's a lot of tradeoffs and the welfare state can be sweet for some, but I know that personally as a muslim I'd much rather live elsewhere
- WalterBright 4y agoThe US doesn't do child labor anymore. Kids often don't even have their first job until their twenties.
- stefantalpalaru 4y ago
- dragonwriter 4y ago> I would keep children away from doctors whose only solution is medication. Not sure how that's relevant, neither the article’s nor the more general modern approach is that the “only solution is medication”.
- elil17 4y agoMedication is generally not the first treatment option for anxiety. Psychiatrists probably overprescribe some medications for some disorders but there are a lot of non-chemical treatment options which are super effective for kids with anxiety. I was therapists for anxiety as a kid. My parents were never recommended meds but I did learn a bunch of skills to help me be more patient and calm.
- slg 4y agoFrom the article: >Nearly 80% of chronic mental health conditions emerge in childhood "Normal adult" is relative. Just because a prior generation had to "weather through mental issues" doesn't mean the next one should too. I also don't know where you got the "doctors whose only solution is medication" idea from. You can click through to the survey linked in the article. Here is the high level summary: > In particular, CBT [Cognitive Behavioral Therapy] and exposure-based therapy continue to be the most well-established treatments for child and adolescent anxiety. These findings suggest that the class of interventions comprising CBT and exposure-based interventions are supported by a strong and diverse literature base and that clinicians selecting a first-line intervention for youth anxiety might search here first. Within the CBT and exposure-based interventions reviewed here, the treatment protocol that best meets a given client's presentation will likely be based upon multiple unique considerations such as youth and family characteristics, service setting, and treatment format. Nothing about medication in there.
- alatkins 4y ago> Much better that they weather through mental issues and come out a normal adult. I once held this view, which changed when I watched my 8yo daughter, who was showing some _very_ troubling anxiety-related behaviors, be almost immediately helped when she was diagnosed with ADHD+Aspergers and given ADHD meds. We'd previously tried child therapists and pretty much everything else under the sun. Do I wish that she didn't need medication? Of course. But for her the benefit has far outweighed the downsides, at least so far.
- juve1996 4y agoYep, I tell most people to avoid the "overdiagnosis" alarmism. Go to your doctor, ask questions, get second opinions. Don't trust random commenters on the internet. I wish I had my ADD treated much sooner. Some disorders are very treatable. Ask for non-drug options.
- kurikuri 4y agoIt’s tricky when it comes to something like ADHD. Researchers in the field (Russell Barkley comes to mind), describe ADHD as a developmental disorder, with stunting that may be lifelong. Many problems associated with the slower executive control development are alleviated by starting medication early and building behaviors to manage time blindness and inattention. Also, in terms of effect size, there isn’t a better change in expected outcome for any medication/therapy in psychiatric care than using stimulants to treat ADHD. The pendulum of public opinion on stimulant use with ADHD treatment has always been too fast, resulting in periods of over and under diagnosis. The lifelong negative effect of being treated for ADHD when unnecessary is much less than being undiagnosed, but the delay in the change of outcome makes it difficult to see. People with untreated ADHD tend to perform worse in _every_ aspect of life, from relationship maintenance, financial stability, professional and academic development, and personal happiness. While it is wrong to simply give a patient the meds without therapy and observation, it is much worse to not do so when the medication is needed.
- giantg2 4y agoI would be more concerned the risks associated with over diagnosis, or dredging up problems where there aren't any.
- Victerius 4y agoA preliminary analysis has shown that the above comment exhibits symptoms of at least seven mental disorders, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition. Would you like to commit giantg2? [Y] [N]
- giantg2 4y agoHaha My dad had a class with a psychiatrist. One day the psychiatrist came in late, paced back and forth, and told the class that the only reason someone becomes a psychiatrist is to find out what's wrong with themself. Then he walked out. That was the class for that day.
- DancesWTurtles 4y agoI would also be very troubled of the possibility that mass testing in children would, itself, cause some degree of anxiety. I know I don't enjoy being tested.
- juve1996 4y agoI feel this is an overreaction. Nothing wrong with having a quick mental checkup along with your physical.
- DancesWTurtles 4y agoMy point is that taking a physical does not change your physical attributes; being asked "are you nervous?" can't give a proper answer because the question, by itself, changes the outcome. Like the "whatever you do, don't think of a pink elephant" thing.
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- kelseyfrog 4y ago> The good news is that we have decades of high-quality research demonstrating how to effectively intervene to reduce symptoms and to help anxious youth cope and function better. These include both medical and nonmedical interventions like cognitive behavioral therapy, which studies show to be safe and effective. That's the good news? I guess hoping for a deep dive into the causes and some reasoning about how we got ourselves into this is too much? The pattern of only addressing symptoms is pathologically abundant.
- thepasswordis 4y agoOh wow a task force. I wonder if they'll ever get to a point where they solve the problem and no longer feel the need to exist.
- vnchr 4y agoIt worked out that way for the Disinformation Governance Board.
- caseysoftware 4y agoAsking doctors who get paid for providing treatment to determine if someone needs treatment sounds perfect. I bet pharma would love to have more lifetime customers too. And think of how much more effective government/media messaging will be with this info! How could this possibly go wrong? /s
- throwaway0a5e 4y agoEven if they mean well they're gonna over-treat. Ask a painter how to spruce up your house they'll say paint. Professionals swing with the hammer they have.
- neuronexmachina 4y agoDoes your reasoning apply to other USPTF recommendations, or just this one? https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/recommendation-topics/uspstf-a-and-b-recommendations https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/recomme...
- belval 4y ago> However, studies also estimate that upward of 10% to 21% of children and adolescents struggle with an anxiety disorder and as many as 30% of children experience moderate anxiety that interferes with their daily functioning at some time in their life. Probably my toxic masculinity showing, but if 1 in 3 children has anxiety, then I'd chalk it up to "that's life". We cannot possibly offer therapy to that many children and medicating the problem away is a chilling suggestion.
- themitigating 4y agoCancer is also "just life" yet affects much fewer than anxiety but we spend billions on it
- belval 4y agoCancer is not "just life", you die from it. Not figuratively, you actually die from it. Anxiety is chronic, it's more like headaches or eczema. It still sucks to have it and some people have a very bad case that requires medication.
- elil17 4y agoIf we had a good cure (or even a mediocre cure) for mild headaches why would we not give that to every kid with headaches? Isn’t talk therapy (CBT/DBT/etc) that cute?
- kelseyfrog 4y agoI get that it's a large-scale project (assuming it is a real problem), but isn't it akin to saying, "this software is too buggy to improve. We should give up and live with the bugs instead?"
- belval 4y agoThe cure can be worse than the disease, the software analogy is actually pretty good. > This software is too buggy to improve. We should give up and live with the bugs instead? 1. You can do a full costly rewrite, probably still end up with bugs because we don't have a real solution to inherent complexity. (we don't have a cure for anxiety) 2. You can target the few very bad bugs and fix those (helping the ~5% of children with crippling anxiety, let the "moderate" anxiety learn to live with it). Article is pointing towards doing 1, I think it's ridiculous and how we end with a significant proportion of kids on antidepressants.
- notacoward 4y agoHaving watched anxiety-related problems rampage through my daughter's cohort, especially (but not only) in the last two years, I think this is a good thing. Anxiety is insidious. It leads to other problems that can be deadly, but anxiety itself never shows up as the cause of death. Other times it just hampers young people's ability to thrive in school or grow into adulthood, which can lead to a life-long pattern of under-achievement and unhappiness. Detecting and intervening early would be a great help. Yes, we should also look at the causes of all this excess anxiety. Yes, we should avoid over-diagnosing and (especially) over-medicating. All that said, equipping kids and young adults with healthier outlooks and strategies would still be great.
- hnuser123456 4y agoAnecdote: (first of all, my family and I still get along fine) I was a regular happy 8 year old child who wasn't very interested in hours of homework after school. My very academic family found this highly troubling and diagnosed me with ADD before any doctor did, as is fashion for some types. In the process of justifying this, I was given EEG scans, and quizzed by a strange man in a dark room with my parents, repeatedly asking "do you ever feel anxiety?" I did not know what this word meant, so they carefully explained to me what anxiety was, worrying about something you're not sure what the cause is, a feeling of dread, being scared of the unknown... I stumbled to say no, I have no experience of that, I can always tell what I worry about and am otherwise happy. The conversation continued essentially along the lines of "are you surrre? are you really sure?" Cue 8 years of meds which made me very anxious of failure in school and eliminated my appetite, causing my growth to nearly halt and fall within the bottom percentile of height and weight within a couple years, despite growing at a very average rate beforehand.
- anm89 4y agoI had a similar experience. I was heavily medicated by 6 or 7. Interestingly also had the same exact issues with low height and weight. I think if I hadn't forced my way off of meds around 13 I would have been permanantly stunted. I'm still shorter than almost every other male in my family but not much. I believe that I was basically a functioning meth addict for most of my childhood who thought I had never done drugs. Ironically I think the kind of thinking that decides all kids need intensive psychological screening at 8 is an example of the types of patterns for how we run our society that cause lots of people to develop anxiety issues. Or who knows, maybe we are just one bureaucratic process away from everyone finally being happy.
- BurningFrog 4y agoOPs description sounds less like "intensive psychological screening" and more like "intensive sales pitch".
- beaned 4y agoI would hate my parents for this. It sounds like you were a very normal child.
- candiddevmike 4y agoWhat are they going to do if they discover anxiety? I wouldn't be surprised to hear how endemic it is, but as an adult with anxiety, there's not a silver bullet fix aside from dramatic life changes. Meditation and drugs just cover it up IMO.
- soared 4y agoLearning box breathing actually changed a lot for me, not a silver bullet but now I can do the things that before would shut down my brain into severe fight or flight mode.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> What are they going to do if they discover anxiety? Probably, initially, therapy like CBT and school-based awareness and accommodations, if particular geographic, demographic, or other discernable trends show up that indicate systemic rather than merely individual random issues, probably dig deeper to understand the process and causes and address them.
- juve1996 4y agoWork on it, like anything else. Children are still growing - and it is the easiest time to make changes, just like it's easier to learn a new language. It seems like the best time than to wait until it crystallizes in your twenties in addition to the stresses of being an adult.
- swayvil 4y agoThere's this weird idea that thinking is the pinnacle of existence. It's a really popular idea. Therefore we should all think as much as possible. And childhood should be spent getting good at thinking. But thinking isn't the pinnacle of existence. In fact it's just a very tiny part of existence. So when we spend all our time thinking, in exclusion of all else, we suffer. A kind of starvation. And it messes us up body and mind.
- quantified 4y agoWhile this strikes me as off-target from the post, it also strikes me as a professional thinker as absolutely true.
- swayvil 4y agoKids are in school, which is all about intense thinking. The messed-up-ness might manifest as anxiety.
- neuronexmachina 4y agoLink to the draft recommendation from the US Preventive Services Task Force: https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/draft-recommendation/screening-anxiety-children-adolescents https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/draft-r... Past USPTF recommendations can be found here: https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/recommendation-topics/uspstf-a-and-b-recommendations https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/recomme...
- core-utility 4y agoWhy is anxiety as an emotion so commonly conflated with anxiety disorder? Having anxiety is a very normal thing that everyone has from time to time, just like every other emotion. Having an anxiety disorder is very different.
- septic-liqueur 4y agoBecause it's hard to draw the line between the two
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- stainablesteel 4y agohelp is supposed to be an option, not a requirement this is philosophically and ethically wrong
- septic-liqueur 4y agoMy eight year old daughter is dealing with anxiety. She had it from birth basically. Very sensitive, avoids social interactions, negative thoughts ("what is the feeling doesn't go away?") And other hallmarks of anxiety. We try not to label her, get to speak about what she's feeling, try to give her tools to cope. But as a parent, seeing this unfold time and time again, each time with some new trigger is tough. Has anyone gone through something similar with their children and has some advice about what helps and what doesn't help, would love to hear
- kar5pt 4y agoI dont mean to criticize, but how is this different from a normal kid? Being shy as an 8 year old seems normal. The "negative thoughts" could be because she's picked up that you're concerned about her feelings which makes her think about them more.
- alphabettsy 4y agoHave dealt with anxiety disorder for a long time. I don’t believe screening is the answer, likely leads to over-diagnosis and then medication to handle the volume. Education might be a good start. Early on my severe and reoccurring anxiety was dismissed as normal anxiety. It’s still common for people to think the normal worrying we all experience is the same as having anxiety disorder. Knowing what I was experiencing and how it’s different would have been great for me and my peers.
- septic-liqueur 4y agoWhen did it occur to you that it was a "disorder" and not "normal" anxiety? How would you differentiate between the two? I would be worried about labeling. Anxiety comes and goes, usually in waves, you can have periods where you're not anxious and periods where you are not
- pph 4y ago> you can have periods where you're not anxious and periods where you are not I'd say in that case there's not much to worry about ;)
- septic-liqueur 4y agoTypo of course :-) You get the point
- alphabettsy 4y agoI saw a doctor after the second time I went to the ER thinking I was having a heart attack. I still have regular anxiety and nervousness. The panic attacks are something completely different though.
- simmerup 4y agoI remember all throughout school having constant stomach ache, which was anxiety but the doctors misdiagnosed it as IBS. It wasn’t until uni that I realised what was going on. How did you cope with it?
- djohnston 4y agoGross, get em hooked to the drugs while they're young I guess
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- pyuser583 4y agoMy veterinarian wanted to prescribe my cat Prozac for anxiety.
- Vladimof 4y agoThey like to have everyone on meds... they make better sheeple...