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> "There are very few tools the US administration has because the biggest drivers for gasoline prices are driven by global fundamentals," Matt Smith, lead oil a

> "There are very few tools the US administration has because the biggest drivers for gasoline prices are driven by global fundamentals," Matt Smith, lead oil analyst at Kpler said. "You can make decisions on domestic supply, but if it doesn't have an impact on the global picture, it won't have an impact at the pump." One of the most overlooked tools... reducing dependence on oil. If supply won't budge, we should attempt to reduce our demand. It's odd that with all the issues plaguing the US because of higher oil prices, many governments (local, state and federal) refuse to acknowledge that our built environment has made us entirely dependent on oil for the foreseeable future.

tomjen3 4y ago
Supply will butch perfectly, as long as the administration is willing to cut off all military assistance to the Saudis if the oil price is above, say, 70 dollar a barrow that month.
MBCook 4y ago
You can’t reduce dependence in a week, so it can’t bring meaningful change in the short-term, which is what they’re really looking for right now.
ryukafalz 4y ago
> It's odd that with all the issues plaguing the US because of higher oil prices, many governments (local, state and federal) refuse to acknowledge that our built environment has made us entirely dependent on oil for the foreseeable future. That’s right. During the 1973 oil crisis, the Netherlands banned private car usage on Sundays to curb oil usage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/from-the-archive-blog/2020/nov/04/netherlands-introduces-car-free-sundays-archive-1973 https://www.theguardian.com/world/from-the-archive-blog/2020... It seems there’s little appetite here for anything like that, even in places that already have excellent public transport by national standards.
- ars 4y ago
  A ban like that would do nothing useful anyway. Public transport might make more space on the road, but it does not save energy. Numbers: "Public transportation use saves the U.S. the equivalent of 4.2 billion gallons of gasoline annually"[1] "In 2021, about 134.83 billion gallons (or about 3.21 billion barrels)1 of finished motor gasoline were consumed in the United State"[2]. 4.2/134.83 = 3%. [1]https://www.kcata.org/about_kcata/entries/environmental_benefits_of_public_transit https://www.kcata.org/about_kcata/entries/environmental_bene... [2]https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
  - aplummer 4y ago
    That’s with the current usage though right, not if we used a lot more public transportation and changed the type of it (bud -> train)
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    I’d argue 3% savings is better than nothing, and you have to keep in mind that that 3% figure is in the US we have right now where very few people use transit. If ridership grew, that number would as well. Regardless, a move like that is as much about demonstrating that alternatives are possible as it is about direct savings. The Netherlands started building excellent bike infrastructure around that time, and they’re now in a better position than we are to get by with less oil use.
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      > I’d argue 3% savings is better than nothing, and you have to keep in mind that that 3% figure is in the US we have right now where very few people use transit. I agree. In general, I'm finding that people underestimate the importance of small improvements here. I remember people saying that Russia provides 10% of the world's oil as if that were a small amount. No, its actually a pretty critical amount in terms of price volatility. But the good news it that all it takes is a few 2-3% improvements across the board to effectively negate it. It "only" requires our willingness to take those steps.
  - wbsss4412 4y ago
- sammalloy 4y ago
  > During the 1973 oil crisis, the Netherlands banned private car usage on Sundays to curb oil usage…It seems there’s little appetite here for anything like that You might be surprised. I remember that California had car-free days (on Sundays, I believe) in the Bay Area in the 1970s. Perhaps someone who remembers the details can chime in. I think it had more to do with bicyclists than with oil.
- peckrob 4y ago
  Around that same, the US implemented the National Maximum Speed Law [0], more commonly known at the "55mph speed limit" for the same reason. It is widely regarded as one of the least popular pieces of legislation ever enacted by Congress, so hated that it even became the subject of a hard rock song [1]. It was widely ignored by motorists and police alike, with non-compliance rates as high as 85%. Some states made violations of the law basically meaningless, with the "fine" being a few dollars and no points or any other ramifications. It's also why cars over a certain age will have a big circle around the 55 on the speedometer. What's crazy is that this wildly unpopular law soldiered on, in watered down form, until 1995, at which point speed limits fully reverted to state control. And, in retrospect, because of the widespread non-compliance it is believed that it did relatively little to impact overall fuel usage. Interestingly, in Montana, there were some places that, prior to the 55 speed limit, had no speed limit. They were signed as "Reasonable and Prudent", and when the 55 speed limit was repealed, the "Reasonable and Prudent" signs went back up [2]. I have a picture of myself in front of one around that time because I was working as a park ranger in Yellowstone. This changed in 1999, and Montana now has a maximum speed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvV3nn_de2k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvV3nn_de2k [2] https://images.roadtrafficsigns.com/img/art/Montana-speed-limit-sign-1995.jpg https://images.roadtrafficsigns.com/img/art/Montana-speed-li...
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    It helps if you can practically enforce the restriction. Easy enough to tell if someone's driving a private car when the streets are otherwise mostly empty; hard to monitor everyone's speed and reliably pull people over if they go past the limit.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    Montana always had a "maximum speed", they just didn't put a number on it for periods of time. But if you thought 110mph down US 2 was reasonable and prudent (and there are plenty of sections where an argument could be made...), a MT trooper might set you straight.
- nikau 4y ago
  Perhaps a Sunday ban on rolling coal
ars 4y ago
> entirely dependent on oil for the foreseeable future. We are dependent on energy. That's never going away. Electricity prices are going up just like gas, (although without the daily price changes). > reducing dependence on oil Maybe you can drive less, but you'll still need lots of energy. In the net it won't make much difference. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ - this is a graph showing what happens if you don't have enough energy. After 1971 everyone worked to conserve energy, and the result was poorer employment and greater inequity. To make this world a better place we need to increase supply, not reduce demand. Ideally clean supply.....
- _ea1k 4y ago
  > Electricity prices are going up just like gas, (although without the daily price changes). Of course, but the increased stability comes from increased versatility. Building everything on gas is like building a food system exclusively on beef. Its bound to lead to fragility. Having natural gas, coal, nuclear, and a plethora of renewals (in roughly that order, IIRC correctly) is great for stability. > To make this world a better place we need to increase supply, not reduce demand. Ideally clean supply..... Ok, maybe we actually are agreeing here. That's the best answer in the long run.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Maybe you can drive less, but you'll still need lots of energy. In the net it won't make much difference. Is this calculation based on the law of averages?
landemva 4y ago
Feds could cut the fuel tax, like Germany has done. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-24/germany-to-cut-fuel-tax-to-help-ease-burden-of-energy-prices https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-24/germany-t...
- yakak 4y ago
  Raise fuel tax. If one canceled a fuel tax equal to a cost increase the demand stays the same and the whole point is that demand is higher than supply so the increase comes anyway, but oil producers get to keep the money.
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
  Every Western government is looking into it. UK has already done it, many more to come.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    Yes many do, but still it's completely wrong. Lower taxes never get fully passed through to the customer. "The markets" make sure that parts of the money remains as higher prices. The high prices have made Russian oil income grow, not shrink since 24-Feb. (That's not the fault of any tax reductions, but tax reductions will increase consumption which will certainly not help the problem.)

tomjen3 4y ago

Supply will butch perfectly, as long as the administration is willing to cut off all military assistance to the Saudis if the oil price is above, say, 70 dollar a barrow that month.

MBCook 4y ago

You can’t reduce dependence in a week, so it can’t bring meaningful change in the short-term, which is what they’re really looking for right now.

ryukafalz 4y ago

> It's odd that with all the issues plaguing the US because of higher oil prices, many governments (local, state and federal) refuse to acknowledge that our built environment has made us entirely dependent on oil for the foreseeable future. That’s right. During the 1973 oil crisis, the Netherlands banned private car usage on Sundays to curb oil usage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/from-the-archive-blog/2020/nov/04/netherlands-introduces-car-free-sundays-archive-1973 https://www.theguardian.com/world/from-the-archive-blog/2020... It seems there’s little appetite here for anything like that, even in places that already have excellent public transport by national standards.

ars 4y ago
A ban like that would do nothing useful anyway. Public transport might make more space on the road, but it does not save energy. Numbers: "Public transportation use saves the U.S. the equivalent of 4.2 billion gallons of gasoline annually"[1] "In 2021, about 134.83 billion gallons (or about 3.21 billion barrels)1 of finished motor gasoline were consumed in the United State"[2]. 4.2/134.83 = 3%. [1]https://www.kcata.org/about_kcata/entries/environmental_benefits_of_public_transit https://www.kcata.org/about_kcata/entries/environmental_bene... [2]https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
- aplummer 4y ago
  That’s with the current usage though right, not if we used a lot more public transportation and changed the type of it (bud -> train)
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  I’d argue 3% savings is better than nothing, and you have to keep in mind that that 3% figure is in the US we have right now where very few people use transit. If ridership grew, that number would as well. Regardless, a move like that is as much about demonstrating that alternatives are possible as it is about direct savings. The Netherlands started building excellent bike infrastructure around that time, and they’re now in a better position than we are to get by with less oil use.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    > I’d argue 3% savings is better than nothing, and you have to keep in mind that that 3% figure is in the US we have right now where very few people use transit. I agree. In general, I'm finding that people underestimate the importance of small improvements here. I remember people saying that Russia provides 10% of the world's oil as if that were a small amount. No, its actually a pretty critical amount in terms of price volatility. But the good news it that all it takes is a few 2-3% improvements across the board to effectively negate it. It "only" requires our willingness to take those steps.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
sammalloy 4y ago
> During the 1973 oil crisis, the Netherlands banned private car usage on Sundays to curb oil usage…It seems there’s little appetite here for anything like that You might be surprised. I remember that California had car-free days (on Sundays, I believe) in the Bay Area in the 1970s. Perhaps someone who remembers the details can chime in. I think it had more to do with bicyclists than with oil.
peckrob 4y ago
Around that same, the US implemented the National Maximum Speed Law [0], more commonly known at the "55mph speed limit" for the same reason. It is widely regarded as one of the least popular pieces of legislation ever enacted by Congress, so hated that it even became the subject of a hard rock song [1]. It was widely ignored by motorists and police alike, with non-compliance rates as high as 85%. Some states made violations of the law basically meaningless, with the "fine" being a few dollars and no points or any other ramifications. It's also why cars over a certain age will have a big circle around the 55 on the speedometer. What's crazy is that this wildly unpopular law soldiered on, in watered down form, until 1995, at which point speed limits fully reverted to state control. And, in retrospect, because of the widespread non-compliance it is believed that it did relatively little to impact overall fuel usage. Interestingly, in Montana, there were some places that, prior to the 55 speed limit, had no speed limit. They were signed as "Reasonable and Prudent", and when the 55 speed limit was repealed, the "Reasonable and Prudent" signs went back up [2]. I have a picture of myself in front of one around that time because I was working as a park ranger in Yellowstone. This changed in 1999, and Montana now has a maximum speed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvV3nn_de2k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvV3nn_de2k [2] https://images.roadtrafficsigns.com/img/art/Montana-speed-limit-sign-1995.jpg https://images.roadtrafficsigns.com/img/art/Montana-speed-li...
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  It helps if you can practically enforce the restriction. Easy enough to tell if someone's driving a private car when the streets are otherwise mostly empty; hard to monitor everyone's speed and reliably pull people over if they go past the limit.
- mikestew 4y ago
  Montana always had a "maximum speed", they just didn't put a number on it for periods of time. But if you thought 110mph down US 2 was reasonable and prudent (and there are plenty of sections where an argument could be made...), a MT trooper might set you straight.
nikau 4y ago
Perhaps a Sunday ban on rolling coal

ars 4y ago

> entirely dependent on oil for the foreseeable future. We are dependent on energy. That's never going away. Electricity prices are going up just like gas, (although without the daily price changes). > reducing dependence on oil Maybe you can drive less, but you'll still need lots of energy. In the net it won't make much difference. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ - this is a graph showing what happens if you don't have enough energy. After 1971 everyone worked to conserve energy, and the result was poorer employment and greater inequity. To make this world a better place we need to increase supply, not reduce demand. Ideally clean supply.....

_ea1k 4y ago
> Electricity prices are going up just like gas, (although without the daily price changes). Of course, but the increased stability comes from increased versatility. Building everything on gas is like building a food system exclusively on beef. Its bound to lead to fragility. Having natural gas, coal, nuclear, and a plethora of renewals (in roughly that order, IIRC correctly) is great for stability. > To make this world a better place we need to increase supply, not reduce demand. Ideally clean supply..... Ok, maybe we actually are agreeing here. That's the best answer in the long run.
pessimizer 4y ago
> Maybe you can drive less, but you'll still need lots of energy. In the net it won't make much difference. Is this calculation based on the law of averages?

landemva 4y ago

Feds could cut the fuel tax, like Germany has done. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-24/germany-to-cut-fuel-tax-to-help-ease-burden-of-energy-prices https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-24/germany-t...

yakak 4y ago
Raise fuel tax. If one canceled a fuel tax equal to a cost increase the demand stays the same and the whole point is that demand is higher than supply so the increase comes anyway, but oil producers get to keep the money.
Dma54rhs 4y ago
Every Western government is looking into it. UK has already done it, many more to come.
- usr1106 4y ago
  Yes many do, but still it's completely wrong. Lower taxes never get fully passed through to the customer. "The markets" make sure that parts of the money remains as higher prices. The high prices have made Russian oil income grow, not shrink since 24-Feb. (That's not the fault of any tax reductions, but tax reductions will increase consumption which will certainly not help the problem.)