4 ms·

A 9 kW generator that costs $1000 is going to be an open-frame, bottom of the barrel model. It'll be loud as hell, won't have an inverter so it runs at 3600 RPM

A 9 kW generator that costs $1000 is going to be an open-frame, bottom of the barrel model. It'll be loud as hell, won't have an inverter so it runs at 3600 RPM (or 1800 RPM if you're lucky enough to have a 4-pole) constantly regardless of load, and as others have pointed out, requires a lot of maintenance. Not to mention, ones that large usually weigh about 200 lbs / 90 kg, and are not frequently hooked into your house's circuit so you will have to haul it out and hook loads up. Hope you understand how to safely run extension cords with heavy loading. I have a 2.2 kW Honda that does have an inverter, is absurdly quiet, and sips fuel. I also have an extended fuel tank for it so it can run overnight. All of that, plus adequately sized extension cords, was somewhere around $2500. It's also still a pain in the ass to set up when it's necessary, but at least I get to run fridges, freezers, LAN, TV, fans, etc. I also have to do monthly load tests, source ethanol-free gas, rotate gas supplies, and practice running extension cords to everything so I'm not confused in the dark. Lest you think all of this is unnecessary prepper beliefs, I live in Texas (for now - about to move), and it has been required far more often than I'd like. A standby generator that can run an entire house will run you $15-20K with installation, and that assumes you have natural gas plumbed to your house already. If you don't, you'll have to bury a LPG tank, or have an unsightly blob in your yard. This feature of the Lightning is the major draw for me, and I am seriously considering it once they've proven themselves for a few years.

reacharavindh 4y ago
A serious question. If power outages are that common that you need to have this backup, would you not consider a bank of LFP batteries and an inverter before you think of using your car for this? In case of a grid outage/emergency, having a car that is untethered to the house is handy right? It's not the same, but my parents back in India have a few Lead acid batteries hooked up to an inverter to supply backup power when power outage occurs (about once a week). They have been doing this for decades now. I'm just wondering why a larger scale version of this with LFP batteries and may be solar panels to charge them wouldn't work where you are..
- _ea1k 4y ago
  It might make sense to have both. Its rare to see a home backup system that has as much capacity as this truck. It'd effectively extend your home capacity and also provide a resource that could be charged away from home. We don't have many grid outages here, but the ones that happen tend to happen around large weather disasters. Commercial areas, often with DCFC tend to get restored a little more quickly than more distant suburban residential power and tbh, most people aren't driving that much during those periods anyway.
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  Comparisons to developing countries usually forget about demand - the average electrical demand in a typical Indian home is hundreds of watts to a few kilowatts depending on how affluent the home is. The average north american home has several kilowatts of connected loads, not to mention equipment that must run such as heating/cooling, large fridges and myriad electronics. Banks of lead acid batteries can indeed work but they are large, may leak and always require some sort of hazard protection. You can get around all of this in a country with lax standards but are unlikely to do so in the west.
  - reacharavindh 4y ago
    True. My parents actually have their apartment wired for "power groups that can run on inverter" and other power groups that will be without backup. Their power needs are substantially lower than an average American and European household. That is why I was wondering if this idea could be _scaled_ up. I would not go around recommending anyone to buy Lead acid battery banks today. I'm in the midst of getting rid of the ones at my parents' too. However, I found these LFP batteries where I live - NL for about 1K Euros [1] . They are 2.5KWh. Two or three of them and an inverter ought to be a good as reasonable backup for an American house dont you think? LFP batteries dont catch fire like the Li-Ion ones tend to. No worries about oil maintenance. They come with 10 years of warranty. What is a downside to this that I am missing? [1] - https://greencell.global/en/lifepo4-batteries/4097-lifepo4-battery-200ah-128v-2560wh-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-photovoltaic-system-camping-truck.html#specification https://greencell.global/en/lifepo4-batteries/4097-lifepo4-b...
js2 4y ago
> source ethanol-free gas, rotate gas supplies, Convert your generator to run on propane. In my experience, propane tends to be more available during natural disaster power outages than gasoline. And it's way less messy. But make sure you have a sufficient number of tanks in advance. Those tend to disappear when there's an outage. > practice running extension cords to everything so I'm not confused in the dark. Have an electrician install an inlet outside your house along with a transfer switch: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-10-Circuit-30-Amp-Manual-Transfer-Switch-Kit-310CRK/205793178 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-10-Circuit-30-... Instead of the transfer switch, your may also (depending upon your local code) be able to go with a simple lock out device in your panel like this: https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Interlock-Kit-Breaker-Panel-Lockout-Transfer-Switch/dp/B09KS2VM1P https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Interlock-Kit-Breaker-Panel...
- sgarland 4y ago
  I would, but you lose about 400 watts due to the lower energy density of propane/LPG. This is already a small generator, and I usually am running it very close to its maximum. If I had a bigger unit (Honda also makes a 3000 watt and 6500 watt model), or just had two of these in parallel, it would be worth consideration. Re: transfer switch, again if I had a bigger unit I'd consider it, but I can run so few loads it didn't seem worthwhile. This is basically to keep food from spoiling, internet/TV going, and fans so we can sleep somewhat comfortably.
  - pnutjam 4y ago
    or just had two of these in parallel, it would be worth consideration. --- That actually doubles your risk of failure, better to go with one big one.
    - aftbit 4y ago
      It also doubles your likelihood of having at least one working generator in the presence of failures. Depending on how many of your loads are critical, it might be a better bet to have two in parallel. Best case you can run more, worst case you can run the essentials just like now. Also it might be a cheaper upgrade path. Instead of throwing away or reselling the existing smaller generator to buy a larger one, just add another of the same thing you already have to your system. Finally, you could have three smaller generators and get N+1 redundancy for cheaper than two larger generators.
itsoktocry 4y ago
>A 9 kW generator that costs $1000 is going to be an open-frame, bottom of the barrel model. Not even close to bottom-of-the-barrel. In fact, pretty standard, and can last forever. >requires a lot of maintenance. Lots of maintenance? Like what, changing the oil and plug once a season? >If you don't, you'll have to bury a LPG tank, or have an unsightly blob in your yard. You seem to have very particular tastes about "sound" and "looks", so go ahead and spend $20k for a backup system. But don't try to tell people it can't be done for far cheaper, because I've been running my house on a backup system with a $1000 Generac portable coming up on a decade. The generator I replaced was from the 70s.
- sgarland 4y ago
  An open-frame generator under load is going to be somewhere around 72-76 dB, and that's usually measured at around 20 feet. That is entirely too loud to be running overnight in a neighborhood when everyone's power is out, and thus things are dead quiet. Inverter generators, especially good ones, are more like 50-56 dB. Maintenance requirements are usually spec'd by runtime; mine is oil change at 20 hours for break-in, then every 100 hours. It's not difficult, but it's annoying. Beyond that, if you aren't running it at least quarterly (I do monthly), you're risking it not starting when you need it. Not to mention the aforementioned fuel requirements - ethanol free is sometimes hard to find, and you need to keep a mental note of when you bought it so you can rotate fuel supplies. It comes down to personal taste and willingness to be loud in your neighborhood, sure. If I'm going to spend the money on backup power, I first and foremost don't want there to be any question about its reliability. I trust Honda's engines and electronics. I also don't want to piss off my neighbors, or make myself an easy target of theft, so it needs to be as quiet as possible.
rsync 4y ago
That seems awfully expensive for a generator… our 22kw generac was ~5k … I guess we spent about 1k digging trenches and laying conduit… But that was it … installation is nothing more than installing a 100amp breaker in your panel … and the $30 lockout tab. Homeowner work.
- sgarland 4y ago
  I'm relying on this blog post[0] that was originally posted to r/homelab, which stated $20K for purchase and installation of a 27 kW Generac. While I am comfortable running new branch circuits and panels to code, I suspect most people are not. [0] https://blog.networkprofile.org/generac-rg027-install-27kw-1800rpm-liquid-cooled/ https://blog.networkprofile.org/generac-rg027-install-27kw-1...
euroderf 4y ago
You make it sound like I can soon see the sequel "Mad Max: The Plains of Texas".

reacharavindh 4y ago

A serious question. If power outages are that common that you need to have this backup, would you not consider a bank of LFP batteries and an inverter before you think of using your car for this? In case of a grid outage/emergency, having a car that is untethered to the house is handy right? It's not the same, but my parents back in India have a few Lead acid batteries hooked up to an inverter to supply backup power when power outage occurs (about once a week). They have been doing this for decades now. I'm just wondering why a larger scale version of this with LFP batteries and may be solar panels to charge them wouldn't work where you are..

_ea1k 4y ago
It might make sense to have both. Its rare to see a home backup system that has as much capacity as this truck. It'd effectively extend your home capacity and also provide a resource that could be charged away from home. We don't have many grid outages here, but the ones that happen tend to happen around large weather disasters. Commercial areas, often with DCFC tend to get restored a little more quickly than more distant suburban residential power and tbh, most people aren't driving that much during those periods anyway.
eldaisfish 4y ago
Comparisons to developing countries usually forget about demand - the average electrical demand in a typical Indian home is hundreds of watts to a few kilowatts depending on how affluent the home is. The average north american home has several kilowatts of connected loads, not to mention equipment that must run such as heating/cooling, large fridges and myriad electronics. Banks of lead acid batteries can indeed work but they are large, may leak and always require some sort of hazard protection. You can get around all of this in a country with lax standards but are unlikely to do so in the west.
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  True. My parents actually have their apartment wired for "power groups that can run on inverter" and other power groups that will be without backup. Their power needs are substantially lower than an average American and European household. That is why I was wondering if this idea could be _scaled_ up. I would not go around recommending anyone to buy Lead acid battery banks today. I'm in the midst of getting rid of the ones at my parents' too. However, I found these LFP batteries where I live - NL for about 1K Euros [1] . They are 2.5KWh. Two or three of them and an inverter ought to be a good as reasonable backup for an American house dont you think? LFP batteries dont catch fire like the Li-Ion ones tend to. No worries about oil maintenance. They come with 10 years of warranty. What is a downside to this that I am missing? [1] - https://greencell.global/en/lifepo4-batteries/4097-lifepo4-battery-200ah-128v-2560wh-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-photovoltaic-system-camping-truck.html#specification https://greencell.global/en/lifepo4-batteries/4097-lifepo4-b...

js2 4y ago

> source ethanol-free gas, rotate gas supplies, Convert your generator to run on propane. In my experience, propane tends to be more available during natural disaster power outages than gasoline. And it's way less messy. But make sure you have a sufficient number of tanks in advance. Those tend to disappear when there's an outage. > practice running extension cords to everything so I'm not confused in the dark. Have an electrician install an inlet outside your house along with a transfer switch: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-10-Circuit-30-Amp-Manual-Transfer-Switch-Kit-310CRK/205793178 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-10-Circuit-30-... Instead of the transfer switch, your may also (depending upon your local code) be able to go with a simple lock out device in your panel like this: https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Interlock-Kit-Breaker-Panel-Lockout-Transfer-Switch/dp/B09KS2VM1P https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Interlock-Kit-Breaker-Panel...

sgarland 4y ago
I would, but you lose about 400 watts due to the lower energy density of propane/LPG. This is already a small generator, and I usually am running it very close to its maximum. If I had a bigger unit (Honda also makes a 3000 watt and 6500 watt model), or just had two of these in parallel, it would be worth consideration. Re: transfer switch, again if I had a bigger unit I'd consider it, but I can run so few loads it didn't seem worthwhile. This is basically to keep food from spoiling, internet/TV going, and fans so we can sleep somewhat comfortably.
- pnutjam 4y ago
  or just had two of these in parallel, it would be worth consideration. --- That actually doubles your risk of failure, better to go with one big one.
  - aftbit 4y ago
    It also doubles your likelihood of having at least one working generator in the presence of failures. Depending on how many of your loads are critical, it might be a better bet to have two in parallel. Best case you can run more, worst case you can run the essentials just like now. Also it might be a cheaper upgrade path. Instead of throwing away or reselling the existing smaller generator to buy a larger one, just add another of the same thing you already have to your system. Finally, you could have three smaller generators and get N+1 redundancy for cheaper than two larger generators.

itsoktocry 4y ago

>A 9 kW generator that costs $1000 is going to be an open-frame, bottom of the barrel model. Not even close to bottom-of-the-barrel. In fact, pretty standard, and can last forever. >requires a lot of maintenance. Lots of maintenance? Like what, changing the oil and plug once a season? >If you don't, you'll have to bury a LPG tank, or have an unsightly blob in your yard. You seem to have very particular tastes about "sound" and "looks", so go ahead and spend $20k for a backup system. But don't try to tell people it can't be done for far cheaper, because I've been running my house on a backup system with a $1000 Generac portable coming up on a decade. The generator I replaced was from the 70s.

sgarland 4y ago
An open-frame generator under load is going to be somewhere around 72-76 dB, and that's usually measured at around 20 feet. That is entirely too loud to be running overnight in a neighborhood when everyone's power is out, and thus things are dead quiet. Inverter generators, especially good ones, are more like 50-56 dB. Maintenance requirements are usually spec'd by runtime; mine is oil change at 20 hours for break-in, then every 100 hours. It's not difficult, but it's annoying. Beyond that, if you aren't running it at least quarterly (I do monthly), you're risking it not starting when you need it. Not to mention the aforementioned fuel requirements - ethanol free is sometimes hard to find, and you need to keep a mental note of when you bought it so you can rotate fuel supplies. It comes down to personal taste and willingness to be loud in your neighborhood, sure. If I'm going to spend the money on backup power, I first and foremost don't want there to be any question about its reliability. I trust Honda's engines and electronics. I also don't want to piss off my neighbors, or make myself an easy target of theft, so it needs to be as quiet as possible.

rsync 4y ago

That seems awfully expensive for a generator… our 22kw generac was ~5k … I guess we spent about 1k digging trenches and laying conduit… But that was it … installation is nothing more than installing a 100amp breaker in your panel … and the $30 lockout tab. Homeowner work.

sgarland 4y ago
I'm relying on this blog post[0] that was originally posted to r/homelab, which stated $20K for purchase and installation of a 27 kW Generac. While I am comfortable running new branch circuits and panels to code, I suspect most people are not. [0] https://blog.networkprofile.org/generac-rg027-install-27kw-1800rpm-liquid-cooled/ https://blog.networkprofile.org/generac-rg027-install-27kw-1...

euroderf 4y ago

You make it sound like I can soon see the sequel "Mad Max: The Plains of Texas".