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tomcam 4y ago

When my family goes traveling I am the designated “learn enough local language to get by“ person. I know a little bit of Polish but I speak it with a perfect BBC Polish accent. Worked a long time at it. I noticed that on buses or in restaurants if I told people I didn’t understand Polish they completely ignored me and didn’t simplify their language. I think because I can speak my few words like a native they just filtered out what I was saying. The same was not true in Paris. I am not convinced I have a great French accent, however.

thatjoeoverthr 4y ago
Poles are just very neurotic about it. I didn’t realize this until I started to learn another language (Russian) so I could put the experience of learning Polish in some kind of context.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Well they had to keep their language alive in secret for a century or so. And AFAIK even teenagers use relatively few slangy terms, the exact opposite of how American youths speak.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  >Poles are just very neurotic about it. I'm curious what you mean by that. TBH I've seen non-slavic person speaking Polish only once, so I don't even have an idea what I'd do in that situation.
marcus_holmes 4y ago
I have the same in Berlin. My German is terrible, and I have real problems understanding it. But I have learned to say "Enscheldigung, mein Deutsch ist schlect" (excuse me, my German is terrible) so well that I find a lot of Germans assume I'm being modest and carry on speaking fluent German to me.
- solar-ice 4y ago
  That's a pure misunderstanding; saying your German is terrible doesn't mean you want to speak English or you want someone to say something in simpler words, it just means your German is terrible.
  - stdbrouw 4y ago
    Actually, it does imply that you want the counterparty to speak more slowly or otherwise accommodate you. Otherwise there's no reason to point it out at all.
    - synu 4y ago
      I’ve found in Germany it’s best to be direct and not rely on implication to make your point.
    - Vinnl 4y ago
      I could interpret it to mean "please excuse my mistakes", which is some accommodation, but apparently not what they were after.
      - Beldin 4y ago
        Yup. I would indeed take it to mean "apologies that i am butchering this language and/or its grammar". Same thing in The Netherlands: if you're excusing your command of the language, that's polite. If you want to request something, you'd ask. Eg, "nicht zo schnell, bitte".
    - jhugo 4y ago
      No, in Germany it just means what it says. If you wanted them to speak slower you would have asked them to.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
    Or maybe they think he's saying "Entschuldigung, ich bin ein schlechter Deutscher."
- marban 4y ago
  You need to work on your Rechtschreibung, too
- bigbacaloa 4y ago
  Germans understand you to mean that your German is terrible, but since if you wanted them to slow down and speak clearly you would have said so, they think nothing more of it than that your German is terrible and you are surprisingly self aware for an American (or whatever you are).
  - marcus_holmes 4y ago
    too true. I'm always caught out by how direct everyone is here :) It's refreshing in a way, though it does come across as incredibly rude too. I'm always thinking "why do you think I said that to you now?", because if someone said to me "sorry, my English is really bad" I'd respond with something like "Oh OK, I'll slow down then, or is there another language we share?". I was brought up in England, and there it can be very rude to ask for what you want directly (usually depending on class, as most things do in English culture). So it feels very wrong to just come right out with it ;) but I'm learning.
CraigJPerry 4y ago
My wife (Polish) frequently gets the cold treatment in busy places when asking for help but my ridiculously rubbish attempts at polish[1] end up with 5 star service and smiles. Smiles in ex-communist small shops are not a thing afaict, except when a foreigner tries to speak Polish. Me speaking English gets the cold shoulder too. We’ve tried this out in different situations where we don’t make it known we’re together just so we can compare and contrast the treatment. [1] trying to buy a medium size bottle of water with “nie duze, nie male woda nie gazowana po prosze”
gjulianm 4y ago
French people can be quite special with the accent and pronunciation, though. For some reason, it's the language where I've had to work the most on the accent and pronunciation to get understood. You can speak weird english and people still understand what you say, but weird french will get you nowhere.

SenHeng 4y ago

Foreigners in Japan have the same issue. Pretend not to speak a lick of Japanese and you'll get great service. Speak just a little and suddenly they think you can read Archimedes (or the Japanese equivalent).

marban 4y ago
They're also aware how difficult it is to learn so you get the extra props for trying. My wife learned Japanese to full professional proficiency and we basically get the extra acknowledgment all the time.
null_object 4y ago
> Pretend not to speak a lick of Japanese and you'll get great service. Same here in Sweden: I look South European, so if I speak Swedish I'm just a 'foreigner', if I speak English I'm a tourist who should be impressed by how welcoming and friendly the locals are.
- wasmitnetzen 4y ago
  As a German in Sweden, asking "Do you speak English?" in Swedish works very rarely. Apparently my accent isn't bad enough. I'm now usually asking "Can we speak English with each other?" (in Swedish) which I find a bit more rude, but works a lot better.
  - telesilla 4y ago
    I do the same, it works the world over. Especially if you go the extra mile to learn to say "I am learning, but your language is challenging and I know you will have a better command of English" which serves to flatter and gets you great service.
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bitwize 4y ago
My experience was the opposite. Pretend to speak no Japanese and you will get baffled looks and maybe asked to leave the store. At best you will be treated a little coldly. Speak a little and they will be most accommodating. They will help you fill in the gaps of your language knowledge and do their best to make your experience in Japan smoother. Overall, Japanese people really are culturally and linguistically fairly isolated on their little island chain -- and they hate it. One of the upshots of this is that fluent or even conversational English speakers are quite rare in Japan; and another is that anything and anyone from "overseas" is a potential source of fascination and wonder. (A little scary, too.) So when it comes particularly to the young (< 50 y.o. give or take), as a foreign tourist you will find yourself surrounded by people mildly to extremely intrigued in making a cross-cultural connection -- seeking a "borderless feeling" -- but they have no idea how. With a bit of conversational Japanese, you can establish lines of communication with the Japanese you meet and kick off that connection process, for which they will be quite grateful. At the very least, learn how to ask for an English speaker if one is available. I did this once in a frozen yogurt shop, and was introduced to the manager, a 22-year-old who wanted to tell me all about her time as an exchange student in California (as well as how to buy yogurt in the shop). Of course, this was Osaka. So maybe they were just super-accommodating to me so they would get my business. (By comparison to Tokyo, Osaka is hustle town -- matters of decorum and cultural appropriateness can be put aside if it means more business.)
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Of course, this was Osaka. So maybe they were just super-accommodating to me so they would get my business. (By comparison to Tokyo, Osaka is hustle town -- matters of decorum and cultural appropriateness can be put aside if it means more business.) LOL this is my experience in Taiwan. I find my Mandarin is miraculously much better at the night markets than it is when asking directions. Honestly I love being a poor mandarin speaker in Taiwan. I am pretty sure a good chunk of the population has better english than my mando, but if I start with madarin they will respond in kind 90% of the time. My theory is that they're happy for me to struggle with a language than to do the same themselves - fine by me, great opportunity to practice!
  - bitwize 4y ago
    > My theory is that they're happy for me to struggle with a language than to do the same themselves Relatedly, and famously, Shigeru Miyamoto takes interview questions in English and understands it fairly well, but responds via interpreter simply because the idea of people hearing him struggle with English embarrasses him.
wccrawford 4y ago
My wife and I went to Tokyo, and it stayed in a hotel by Disney. We spent like 4-5 days in Tokyo itself, and another 4-5 at the Disney parks. My experience, everywhere in Tokyo from small restaurants to Disney, was that everyone was nervous to try to speak English with me, but willing to try. Even the waitress at one restaurant that clearly didn't speak much English. When I tried to speak Japanese, they were delighted. My language partners have highly praised my accent, which I understand to mean that I'm not completely horrible. And I have a decent basic vocabulary and horrible grammar. I have had some instances (both in Tokyo and with my language partners who were not in Tokyo) where they suddenly started talking way above my level, and I had to ask them to explain things, but I think that's just the weirdness of talking to a full grown adult that speaks like a child, and trying to manage that situation.
- imadethis 4y ago
  The 日本語上手ですね！ (lit. your Japanese is good) phenomenon. You know you’ve made it when your Japanese stops getting complimented. Obligatory Dogen: https://youtu.be/Qmfipv-H4_o https://youtu.be/Qmfipv-H4_o
  - senko 4y ago
    I believe this is true for most languages. I've had the same happen (and then stop happening, to my delight) to me with English (non-native speaker with fairly strong Eastern European accent).
    - throwawaymaths 4y ago
      Except french (in Paris and Quebec -- some other parts of France do this IME, no clue about the rest of the francophone world)
      - loufe 4y ago
        What do you mean to say here?
  - 4y ago
dpifke 4y ago
I got really frustrated the first time I spent an extended period of time in Germany, and was trying to learn German. Every time I tried to practice the language, native speakers would immediately switch to English. I assumed this was because my German sucked. Someone finally explained to me that my beginner German was fine, but most people relished the opportunity to practice their English. I learned to just keep going in broken German, my conversation partner in broken English. For the most part, it worked.
- TomK32 4y ago
  As a German it took me quite some practice to get over this nicety and stick to German when talking with a foreigner who's bad at German but knows decent English.
- t_mann 4y ago
  There might be something else at play too - it's probably harder for them to remind themselves to slow down / speak in a sufficiently 'textbook-like' style in their own language than it is for them to switch to English.
- Maultasche 4y ago
  I had the same experience when I was doing an internship in Germany. One particular coworker kept speaking English to me, despite everyone else speaking German to me. At this point, I had lived there for a year already and spoke German pretty well, so comprehension definitely wasn't an issue. I think he was either used to speaking English with non-Germans or just liked having the opportunity to speak English. I just kept replying in German and he eventually switched to speaking German to me.
- theturtle32 4y ago
  I'm trying in earnest to learn Spanish, and am at intermediate level. I've had similar experiences trying to use Spanish in various contexts particularly in Southern California where I live, where there are a ton of native Spanish speakers that also speak English, and most of them speak FAR better English than I speak Spanish. Years into my language-learning adventure, I continue to feel super intimidated to try to use my Spanish here, locally, because people so often compliment my accent but the conversation quickly switches to English. I always feel like I'm creating frustration and inconvenience by trying to practice my Spanish, though it could just be my nervousness and desire to people-please that lead me to feel that way. I've had more of this kind of experience (Me speaking intermediate Spanish, with my conversation partner speaking intermediate English) in places outside of my home area where people are more likely to speak Spanish than English on a regular basis: a range of Latin American countries that I've visited, and especially when I visited the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico.

thefz 4y ago

> I also knew an Italian, who had a strong accent, but a better command of English than most native speakers. I think he deliberately played his accent up. Italian here with a decent grasp of the English language. 1) some sounds are harder to learn how to pronunciate, especially for American English, and especially 'R' based ones 2) with time I've grown fond of my accent and wear it as a distinctive badge. Most of my English speaking, European colleagues do the same. Everyone has their own and it makes part of our personality.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
> 2) with time I've grown fond of my accent and wear it as a distinctive badge. Most of my English speaking, European colleagues do the same. Everyone has their own and it makes part of our personality. I like that. My acquaintance used to have to peel the girls off him. I have a very strange accent, that has been stepped on, by many years of traveling. As a child, I had a British accent, then, I lived in Maryland, and got a slightly "Southern" accent. I have lived in New York for the last thirty years, so that has also affected my accent. Plus, I have a scratchy, high-pitched voice, anyway (vocal cord damage, as a kid).
- ohwellhere 4y ago
  I am American and have a slight Southern/rural USA accent (much less slight when visiting family), and the responses I get vary so wildly. Some Irish women I met in a bar absolutely loved it, while in big cities in the USA I am sometimes assumed to be an absolute moron.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    I get that, a lot, around here; especially when I say "howdy!". In the real South, Marylanders are considered damn Yankees. In New York, we're considered damn rednecks.
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      I'm a brit, I don't know much about stuff, so, what is implied by 'yankee'? I wasn't aware it was still used - Is it an insult? And something to do with the civil war? Why are you considered a 'damn Yankee' by Marylanders? I assumed redneck was an insult but it seems not always from what I've heard. I guess it is here. But what does it mean? These may seem odd questions but I truly don't know. TIA
      - ilc 4y ago
        "Yankee" is a term used in the south for a northerner. It is usually not used a positive way. Much the same, "redneck" is not meant in a positive way up north. As with many insults, the group the insult is hurled at can own it, and take it up as a term of almost endearment.
        jen20 4y ago
        It’s also used in the north no? New York even has a baseball team featuring it, which may be more or less positive depending on which borough you’re from.
      - i_am_jl 4y ago
        Some background before I answer your question: Between the "North" and the "South" on the Eastern seaboard there is a central area that is in some ways renounced by both "regions". There's some remainder of the Civil War/Mason Dixon line there, but it doesn't follow that delineation today. For example, in New York someone who grew up in rural Maryland would likely be viewed culturally as a "Southerner". But so would someone from Western Pennsylvania. So would someone from West Virginia, despite West Virginia and Pennsylvania being part of the Union. People in the Deep South would view residents of these areas as "Yankees". In both cases what is meant is that "Your cultural experience is different enough from ours that you're not 'us', you're 'them'." where 'them' is Southern or Northern, wherever you're not. The thing is, there's a big chunk of the mid-Atlantic seaboard that is unique, not traditionally Southern or Northern. "Redneck" is usually pejorative for a working class, white, Southerner. When rednecks say "redneck" it usually isn't an insult, but when others use the word it usually is. Calling somewhere a "Redneck bar" is fine, but calling someone in that bar a "redneck" is usually not. "Yankee" is just a term for Northerner. I'm sure you could say it as an insult, and I'm sure some people think "yankee" is an insult, but if someone calls me a yankee I'd happily agree with them.
        antod 4y ago
        >"Redneck" is usually pejorative for a working class, white, Southerner. When rednecks say "redneck" it usually isn't an insult, but when others use the word it usually is. Calling somewhere a "Redneck bar" is fine, but calling someone in that bar a "redneck" is usually not. Here in NZ, "redneck" seems to be morphing away from the "hick" or working class definitions to more of a "racist bigot" connotation that could be applied more widely.
itronitron 4y ago
I'm curious to know when you first considered yourself to have an accent.
gnicholas 4y ago
> 1) some sounds are harder to learn how to pronunciate, especially for American English, and especially 'R' based ones I would never correct this in a different context, but the word you're looking for is simply "pronounce".
- solveit 4y ago
  or "enunciate", which I guess is what got mixed up.
  - cma 4y ago
    Enunciate is wrong here I think, enunciating a word is saying it kind of slow and clear so someone can better understand how it is pronounced.

mhink 4y ago

tl;dr- the joke here is that a Southerner would think Maryland is "the North", and a Northerner would think Maryland is "the South". "Yankee" is/was a derogatory term for Northerners, most typically used by Southerners during the Civil War and Reconstruction eras. If you want to get technical, it applies most strongly to New Englanders, but when used by a Southerner, it's a pretty broad brush. Nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to actually find someone using the term "yankee" in any sort of serious or angry way. It's much more common to hear it in a tongue-in-cheek way, which is how the parent commenter was using it. "Damn Yankee" is something of a stereotypical phrase you might hear from that time period, especially Reconstruction, when there were still a lot of hard feelings about the war, as well as about Northerners who moved south to participate in Reconstruction, often known as "carpetbaggers" and who were thought of as profiteering from the situation. But nowadays it's more of a cultural joke, or meme. Like for example, if someone were to recommend me a barbecue restaurant in, like, Vermont or something, I might say "I don't know if I trust a damn Yankee to make good barbecue!" (To be fair, I would have very low expectations all the same. Barbecue just isn't the same outside the South.) As for "redneck": it's still something of a disparaging term, and connotes poverty, poor education, and general backwardness. It's sorta like the word "hillbilly" or "country bumpkin", except with a more distinctly Southern vibe. However, it's been partially reclaimed and is often used by country folks to refer to themselves. However, it's not exactly a term used only by Northerners- it wouldn't be at all surprising to hear (for instance) a Southern doctor or lawyer grumbling about "a bunch of stupid rednecks" causing trouble.

axus 4y ago
Washington, DC is the city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  > Washington, DC is the city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency. Man, I wish I could multi-upvote...