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> The policy had broad, bipartisan support, with 75% of Californians and majorities of both parties supporting Right to Repair. > “Sadly, the powerful tech man

> The policy had broad, bipartisan support, with 75% of Californians and majorities of both parties supporting Right to Repair. > “Sadly, the powerful tech manufacturers won out over the everyday Californians and small businesses that would benefit from Right to Repair..." Can someone elaborate specifically on how something like this failed with, apparently, so much support?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nness 4y ago
I don't know how relevant this point is specifically for this bill — but I've always wondered if politicans simply "supported" a bill or otherwise did not speak out in favour/against because they know it'll be a quiter death if they say one thing/vote another. Rather then begin a drawn-out and public campaign in support/against. Easier to be disingenious than "make it my issue."
sjburt 4y ago
- pm90 4y ago
  I would like to see them actually follow through on this absurd threat.
  - black_puppydog 4y ago
    Lol yes, after years of actual water shortage and housing shortage being "not great, but you know, we manage" this would certainly push the state over the edge into full-on Mad Max thunderdome mood. :D
    - lokar 4y ago
      There is only a water shortage if you insist on irrigation by flooding fields in vast inland desert
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - busterarm 4y ago
        Then you're trading a water shortage for a food shortage. Rock. Hard place. There's a long list of fruits and vegetables where California growing is the source of nearly 100% of the nation's consumption. Celery, Garlic, Walnuts...Spinach is up near 80%...Lemons 50%.
        lokar 4y ago
        And yet they use vast amount water to grow nut trees in a desert, rice as well as alfalfa for export to feed dairy herds in China. There is plenty of water to grow all of the veggies needed, if it was done responsibly
        rcpt 4y ago
        Beef and dairy use more water than nuts. We only deflect attention to almonds because the meat industry is excellent at influencing public opinion
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        According to what estimates? I'm seeing various numbers but they're suggesting a bit under 2000 gallons of water to make a pound of both almonds and beef. The almonds do have more calories, but that's a really unimpressive number for both. The reason we talk about almonds is because both of those are wasteful, and both of those are enormous uses of california water, but california has 6% of the country's cattle and 80% of the entire world's almonds. I can't find a good estimate for milk.
        lokar 4y ago
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  There's no way they made that threat. California is the 5th largest economy in the world.
  - ksec 4y ago
    I dont know if they made that threat to California, probably not for Apple, since they could get what they want without doing so. But they did made similar threat to the UK and EU. Possibly hinted in AUS. So it is not the first time Apple did this.
- TrackerFF 4y ago
  With almost 90% of the population in California being over age 10, that would be quite that market to ignore. It's more people than almost all of Scandinavia combined.
bluescrn 4y ago
- throwingrocks 4y ago
  > Can someone elaborate specifically on how
rtkwe 4y ago
The lobbies only have to focus on swaying the committee members because all bills have to make it through the relevant committees before being voted on widely. There are ways for bills in some legislatures to skip the committee process but usually by unanimous votes or large percentages.
guerrilla 4y ago
Oops, I meant to answer you but someone asked the same question [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31559612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31559612
KerrAvon 4y ago
You know, sometimes bills intended to do something good are actually really bad. I don’t know if that’s the case here, but two things strike me as red flags on a quick read: - There are references to specific dollar amounts in the bill with no provision for automatic adjustment due to inflation. - There is the following passage. “(2) For products with a wholesale price to the retailer of not less than fifty dollars ($50) and not more than ninety-nine dollars and ninety-nine cents ($99.99), that contains an electronic security lock or other security-related function, the manufacturer shall also make available to owners of the product, service and repair facilities, and service dealers, on fair and reasonable terms, any documentation, tools, software and parts needed to disable the lock or function, and to reset the lock or function when disabled, during the course of the inspection, diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of a product for at least three years after the date a product model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the three-year period exceeds the warranty period for the product.” That sure seems like a requirement for a secure enclave backdoor.
- Zhenya 4y ago
  So they will sell the dumb lock for $75 and the security insert for $25. See ya later, legislator!!
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  > That sure seems like a requirement for a secure enclave backdoor. Apple uses hardware pairing. Without such a tool you couldn't even swap two genuine parts with eachother.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  A reset isn't a backdoor.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  What the hell is their reasoning for only having a rule that applies to devices that cost $50-$99.99, aside from likely ruling out every cell phone? > the manufacturer shall also make available [...] for at least three years after the date a product model or type was manufactured How much you want to bet that was put in to allow manufacturers to supply software tools that the manufacturer can either remote-disable, or have time-bombs built in, or both? Watch a cell manufacturer shrug and come out with the "YZ 5 Pro", manufacture it for a year, and then come out with the YZ 5 Pro A" the next year, etc. Seems like this got poison-pilled just like a lot of gun legislation which is written to focus on things easily changed so they're not effective. "Guns over 14 inches with a vented barrel grip installed during manufacture" write the lobbyists, and then they send a memo to gun manufacturers to plan on adjusting their tooling to make 13.95 inch barrels, or leave off the barrel grip, easily installed by dealers or buyers.)
FollowingTheDao 4y ago
- spicyusername 4y ago
  I'm trying to understand the specifics of what happened in this particular case. Was it corporate influence? Was it bad policy design? Was it a failure of process? None of the above? All of the above? Something else? It's all too easy to cynically handwave and parrot platitudes like "politicians are corrupt", "capitalism is bad", etc. Reality is far more complicated than those overly simplistic platitudes let-on and parroting them doesn't meaningfully contribute to the discussion of what to do better next time. If we want to understand how to implement lasting change through government policy, the context and details matter when seemingly good policies fail.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nness 4y ago

I don't know how relevant this point is specifically for this bill — but I've always wondered if politicans simply "supported" a bill or otherwise did not speak out in favour/against because they know it'll be a quiter death if they say one thing/vote another. Rather then begin a drawn-out and public campaign in support/against. Easier to be disingenious than "make it my issue."

sjburt 4y ago

pm90 4y ago
I would like to see them actually follow through on this absurd threat.
- black_puppydog 4y ago
  Lol yes, after years of actual water shortage and housing shortage being "not great, but you know, we manage" this would certainly push the state over the edge into full-on Mad Max thunderdome mood. :D
  - lokar 4y ago
    There is only a water shortage if you insist on irrigation by flooding fields in vast inland desert
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - busterarm 4y ago
      Then you're trading a water shortage for a food shortage. Rock. Hard place. There's a long list of fruits and vegetables where California growing is the source of nearly 100% of the nation's consumption. Celery, Garlic, Walnuts...Spinach is up near 80%...Lemons 50%.
      - lokar 4y ago
        And yet they use vast amount water to grow nut trees in a desert, rice as well as alfalfa for export to feed dairy herds in China. There is plenty of water to grow all of the veggies needed, if it was done responsibly
        rcpt 4y ago
        Beef and dairy use more water than nuts. We only deflect attention to almonds because the meat industry is excellent at influencing public opinion
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        According to what estimates? I'm seeing various numbers but they're suggesting a bit under 2000 gallons of water to make a pound of both almonds and beef. The almonds do have more calories, but that's a really unimpressive number for both. The reason we talk about almonds is because both of those are wasteful, and both of those are enormous uses of california water, but california has 6% of the country's cattle and 80% of the entire world's almonds. I can't find a good estimate for milk.
      - lokar 4y ago
idontwantthis 4y ago
There's no way they made that threat. California is the 5th largest economy in the world.
- ksec 4y ago
  I dont know if they made that threat to California, probably not for Apple, since they could get what they want without doing so. But they did made similar threat to the UK and EU. Possibly hinted in AUS. So it is not the first time Apple did this.
TrackerFF 4y ago
With almost 90% of the population in California being over age 10, that would be quite that market to ignore. It's more people than almost all of Scandinavia combined.

bluescrn 4y ago

throwingrocks 4y ago
> Can someone elaborate specifically on how

rtkwe 4y ago

The lobbies only have to focus on swaying the committee members because all bills have to make it through the relevant committees before being voted on widely. There are ways for bills in some legislatures to skip the committee process but usually by unanimous votes or large percentages.

guerrilla 4y ago

Oops, I meant to answer you but someone asked the same question [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31559612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31559612

KerrAvon 4y ago

You know, sometimes bills intended to do something good are actually really bad. I don’t know if that’s the case here, but two things strike me as red flags on a quick read: - There are references to specific dollar amounts in the bill with no provision for automatic adjustment due to inflation. - There is the following passage. “(2) For products with a wholesale price to the retailer of not less than fifty dollars ($50) and not more than ninety-nine dollars and ninety-nine cents ($99.99), that contains an electronic security lock or other security-related function, the manufacturer shall also make available to owners of the product, service and repair facilities, and service dealers, on fair and reasonable terms, any documentation, tools, software and parts needed to disable the lock or function, and to reset the lock or function when disabled, during the course of the inspection, diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of a product for at least three years after the date a product model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the three-year period exceeds the warranty period for the product.” That sure seems like a requirement for a secure enclave backdoor.

Zhenya 4y ago
So they will sell the dumb lock for $75 and the security insert for $25. See ya later, legislator!!
bcrosby95 4y ago
> That sure seems like a requirement for a secure enclave backdoor. Apple uses hardware pairing. Without such a tool you couldn't even swap two genuine parts with eachother.
Dylan16807 4y ago
A reset isn't a backdoor.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
What the hell is their reasoning for only having a rule that applies to devices that cost $50-$99.99, aside from likely ruling out every cell phone? > the manufacturer shall also make available [...] for at least three years after the date a product model or type was manufactured How much you want to bet that was put in to allow manufacturers to supply software tools that the manufacturer can either remote-disable, or have time-bombs built in, or both? Watch a cell manufacturer shrug and come out with the "YZ 5 Pro", manufacture it for a year, and then come out with the YZ 5 Pro A" the next year, etc. Seems like this got poison-pilled just like a lot of gun legislation which is written to focus on things easily changed so they're not effective. "Guns over 14 inches with a vented barrel grip installed during manufacture" write the lobbyists, and then they send a memo to gun manufacturers to plan on adjusting their tooling to make 13.95 inch barrels, or leave off the barrel grip, easily installed by dealers or buyers.)

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

spicyusername 4y ago
I'm trying to understand the specifics of what happened in this particular case. Was it corporate influence? Was it bad policy design? Was it a failure of process? None of the above? All of the above? Something else? It's all too easy to cynically handwave and parrot platitudes like "politicians are corrupt", "capitalism is bad", etc. Reality is far more complicated than those overly simplistic platitudes let-on and parroting them doesn't meaningfully contribute to the discussion of what to do better next time. If we want to understand how to implement lasting change through government policy, the context and details matter when seemingly good policies fail.