8 ms·

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replac

by tomrod 4y ago

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours for a skilled technician (translated to several days for me and my spouse spread across a few weeks) and frankly we want to repair and get back to life. After a few days of looking into the issue and considering the option, we bit the bullet and bought a new one. The old one just had too many fault modes to consider even if we did successfully repair it. I take the same neo-Luddite view on a lot of recent "technology" improvements. The BoringTechnology.club website has the right idea.

throwxxxaway 4y ago
Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)
- bombcar 4y ago
  We are getting old - but part of getting old is remembering things that could be repaired instead of thrown away.
  - sgtnoodle 4y ago
    The door on our $1200 2 year old refrigerator started cracking at the hinge. I had a credit card warranty on it, so I foolishly tried to hire an appliance repair company to fix it. They charged $150 to look at it for 10 minutes and say all they could do is replace the whole door, and quoted $900. I spent 45 minutes fixing it myself with some extruded aluminum and some rivets. The warranty coverage allowed for self-repair, so I ended up "earning" roughly my equivalent hourly rate as a software engineer.
- fifticon 4y ago
  I've justed installed 5 years' worth of Revit on my new laptop today, and with each year the UI on their installers are getting worse. On Revit 2022, some of the splash screen prompts are not resizable and not MOVABLE, ie they don't respond to alt+space for windows menu. This is not OK. On one of them, I had to answer input prompts that they rendered OFF SCREEN. I solved that by changing display resolution.. Another showed a clipped path of a missing install file, which thus couldnt be identified.. I solved that by moving the install files to c:/2/ (to get a shorter path it could display). No, things are getting worse, today's ui is made with crayons :-/
  - j-bos 4y ago
    Revit installs are the worst. Iused to freelance for an engineer and once I moved on from that it was amazing how much cruft from Autodesk was left on my machine. I'm guessing most of it was based on anti piracy measures. I often wonder how much overlap there is between anti piracy, ani cheat, and "productivity" measuring tech.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      > I often wonder how much overlap there is between anti piracy, ani cheat, and "productivity" measuring tech. I've never heard it put this succinctly. Are the same companies doing all of these things because the expertise transfers? Do they have journals and conferences together?
    - vagrantJin 4y ago
      Reminds me of Adobe. The sheer number of dubious services and "stuff" and god awful updates is insane. All this just for Acrobat. Using Firefox to read PDFs now and its a pleasure. Its blazingly fast and does exactly what I need. Adobe can jump off a cliff.
- netr0ute 4y ago
  > Can it be that we are just getting old? That's rich, considering that I'm 18 and I have the same views.
  - LoveGracePeace 4y ago
    It's encouraging to read that young people are starting to get a good foothold on the ground. Tech is cool and helpful but only as far as we can throw it when it breaks.
    - skeeter2020 4y ago
      Agree! please keep up the fight. Use the benefits (like ad blocking making YT watchable) to encourage other young people to fight too!
      - LoveGracePeace 4y ago
        Hold on there. Ads popping up on YT are annoying but it's up to the user to decide if they are worth the content they're watching, same as TV or print or the radio. Using an Ad blocker in my view is no different than stealing.
        detaro 4y ago
        > same as TV is switching channels or otherwise ignoring the TV while ads are on also stealing?
        feanaro 4y ago
        Nope. Website sends information to my computer, my computer displays it the way I want it to be displayed. The website sending the information doesn't own my computer.
        progman32 4y ago
        Toss in SponsorBlock to auto skip time wasters and Unhook to hide the manipulative recommendation feed and other noise, too! Life is too short to waste it on advertisements. Not using a piece of a service (the ads) is not stealing, nor likely is it violating any service contact.
- gonzo41 4y ago
  If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. --for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs. So in this instance grandpa would be using the smart contract to buy ledger space for a NFT about food? Because NFT's arn't food.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. The very same people will claim that you can ignore ads and they aren't a problem, and that free market is efficient and doesn't waste resources
  - tunap 4y ago
    >If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore ads(sic). If you had toddlers in the early 00's(the only time I witnessed it), or were a toddler then, you were likely exposed to plenty of Disney Channel and the frequent barrage of 10 second commercials. Bad programming, IMO.
    - MandieD 4y ago
      This is why my near two year old is unaware that there is an uncountable number of hours of video made specifically to appeal to his age group. I know he'll find out sooner or later, and that it can even be called up on demand if your mommy is nice enough, but I want to keep those little brain cells engaged primarily with the quiet, physical world as long as possible.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      Typically parents at that time had to pay for it. Now? Youtube is nuts.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    > If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. There's some reason to think that this has already happened to some extent. In particular, many of the changed purchasing habits of millennials vs genX and boomers are usually attributed to ad-blindness. You'd expect this to go even further in the next generation.
- lbotos 4y ago
  Maybe? My microwave has something like 20 buttons, I really wish it had two knobs: - Time - Power Hell, print a guide on the inside of the door on how to adjust power for defrosting or whatever. I rarely ever press more than :30 button, and changing power is more annoying than it should be. https://ellis.fyi/tag/knobs/ https://ellis.fyi/tag/knobs/
  - nicbou 4y ago
    My bomann microwave is exactly that, and it's great
  - tzs 4y ago
    Some of the fancy microwave features can actually be useful though. The "sensor cook" on mine does a really great job with potatoes for example. They come out about as good with that as they do when I bake them in the toaster oven or regular oven using a thermometer to determine the cooking time, but the microwave is a lot faster and less effort.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    The other day I accidentally grilled my instant meal because I selected the wavy grill icon instead of the wavy microwave icon on my combi-oven. Molten plastic everywhere :-/ It does have a knob for selecting the time though. I get that icons are easier because you don't need to translate things for every country, but surely it can't be that much effort or expensive? My washing machine has text in Dutch and French, and it was one of the cheaper options.
  - robocat 4y ago
    You can buy whiteware with a usable UI, but you need to go to a display room and try the models with the intent of checking usability, and then paying the premium that usually occurs. Also if possible talk to the service guys and work out what is reliable and maintainable. I regularly hear people complain about their devices, because usability wasn’t considered due to different root causes. Some people don’t know anything about usability (not a “Senior Support Engineering Manager”), some people buy cheap, some people don’t get to choose (rent), many people don’t think to check usability, some people let their partner buy something unsuitable. If you use a kitchen, then pay attention to what other practical friends use. Your appliances are tools you work with: spend effort to buy good tools. I bought a Breville Quick Start microwave, chosen for combination of brand trust, price, and usability. It has a rotating power knob, a rotating timer knob, a 30 second quick start button, and a bunch of feature buttons which I don’t use hidden in the door jam. Rotate the knobs to change power or time while the microwave is running: https://www.breville.com/au/en/products/microwaves/bmo735.html https://www.breville.com/au/en/products/microwaves/bmo735.ht...
- Frost1x 4y ago
  Societies and culture go in wrong directions frequently. The older you grow, the more experience and knowledge you have to recognize bad trends, anticonsumer practices, and outright abusive behaviors. While some of getting old for many is turning into a creature of habit fighting off any and all change, for many it's rejecting what is identified as bad/harmful change or change that exists for no apparent reason. Not all old people are luddites or simply too inept to deal with change, sometimes they make conscious decisions to reject a given change yet are forced by the rest of society on occasion to deal with it. New technologies need to clarify the tradeoffs that exist and what the real value add is beyond marketing propoganda. Many are obsessed with social media and smart devices all over their home (regardless of age). Meanwhile, people who frequent this site are largely technologists who are very tech savvy, sometimes the people creating these very systems, and many of them actively reject such technology and systems because they know exactly how harmful things can be. It's not because they're old, it's because they're informed. More and more business practices are losing their alignment with society and pulling more value than they create and people simply don't want to deal with it. I applaud markets actually functioning healthily and rejecting abusive practices. This DRM may exist for a lot of good reasons, refillability simply may be impractical after skimming over the writeup for some. Meanwhile you have systems like DRM on KCups coffee makers that are completely ludicrous.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    I remember my grandfather in Vegas lamenting that allowing people to wear trashy street clothes or anything less than formal wear / suit and tie into the casinos, or on airplanes, would lead to more and more bad behavior. This seemed incredibly uncool and old-fashioned at the time, but it turns out he was right. Decades of increasingly lax social codes around how people present themselves in public have led to generations of people who don't know how to behave politely in public. This struck me with full force when I was invited to the Magic Castle in LA, one of the last venues to require formal wear at all times. One of the most magical things about that place is how it transforms a whole range of everyday visitors who might be people you wouldn't want to hang out with at their local bar into highly civilized men and women on their tip-top behavior. Vegas and air travel both used to operate on this principle. Now we might call it "LARPing" but when it was a social norm it was called "going out". I don't think it's my getting older that caused me to think more like my grandfather. I think time proved him right.
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  No. It's that the UI, privacy leakage, software, and electronic engineering of these things is simply horrible. I'd be happy with IoT appliances iff: --They weren't designed to fail because of poor power conditioning and thermal management. --They weren't vectors for botnets due to poor security. --They ran on my personal cloud or LAN rather than some godawful Chinese server. --I had veto power over all SW updates, and I could roll them back. --They didn't constantly beep at me as if I were their servant, rather than the other way around. --Their MTBF was longer than "dumb" appliances rather than shorter. I can design systems like this, but apparently the big white goods manufacturers cannot, or don't want to.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    They don't think there is a market for it OR they don't put it into their core principles. There is a market for it.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  I think part of this is inevitable, but I am still very concerned because we cannot rewire our brains in less than single generation, and despite what many think you are paying attention to those ads. My parents might struggle with technology but I'd argue it's because they are trying to do something basic (like access the internet) or of value (like watch their favourite streaming series). I'm not convinced these new "value extraction" pain points that cause us hardship are the same.
- jotm 4y ago
  No, I can ignore ads very well. I just buy what I need after a lot of research (and sadly good/real reviews are harder to come by). All new advancements in "tech" have actually been in money making. Like appliances that require special cartridges for no good reason other than it being more profitable for the manufacturer. They finally adapter the printer-ink model, heh. Did you know most contracts forbid recycling companies from taking out parts and selling them? Because it would cut into profits on overpriced spare parts, of course (official reason is "we can't trust that they'll perform well"). And so they go to landfills or at best, are melted down into something usable at huge energy costs. Yes, people will put up with it. I hope not for long. I know people making 50k/year (good salary for EU) and literally spending it all on the "best" shit, who wish to buy a house and saying it's impossible. Then there's the people making 20k/year who save for many long years and buy a 300k+ house, or at least an apartment. Willing to bet who will be better off in a decade or so? Or whose kids? Ha ha, I might actually lose that bet if a war or catastrophic natural events happen.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  > The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads ...upon which the brain wiring experts get bought and rewire those brains to only see "approved" ads which gives the wheel another push. Around and around it goes, like a circle game.
- 7952 4y ago
  I think it depends on the specific technology. I know older people who were excited to get a smart TV where younger people use a phone, dongles or even a laptops. Sometimes they need the smarts more and are less able to escape it. And there are still older tech fans who love finding the future.
- VBprogrammer 4y ago
  Having seen the confusion on my daughter's face when pressing skip ad on the TV didn't work I'm inclined to agree somewhat.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Sounds like she hates ads as much as the rest of us.
- entropyie 4y ago
  I advise you to go visit a Stasi museum in Germany sometime, look at what they were able to do with paper documents and film/tape. Now imagine what they could do with today's telemetry obsessed economy. When I was in my 20s I thought democracy was a given... "getting old" might just mean you've been alive long enough to realise that democracy is fragile and the shit sometimes hits the fan... We are one misguided vote away from handing over the ultimate panopticon to a malevolent government, and we will never be able to organise a resistance to win power back, because it will be snuffed out in its infancy .
throwaway09223 4y ago
SpeedQueen owner here as well. Even more important than repairability is that the SpeedQueen actually cleans my clothes. In the 80s I remember coming home with mud caked on my clothes, shaking them off and throwing them in the washer. I'd even throw my muddy sneakers in the wash. If I try that with a modern low-water unit there's still dirt on them after a wash. The SpeedQueen will handle this kind of heavy soiling. It seems like modern washers are designed for modern (mostly indoor) living. They freshen clothes, but they don't really wash them.
- mgdlbp 4y ago
  This is about dishwashers, but I once read about regulation-enforced water/energy-saving cycles resulting in ineffective cleaning, which backfired, as people then got in the habit of always selecting the heaviest cycle or even re-adopted pre-rinsing. Searching for the concept now, I can only find this article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-again-11571003417 https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-aga...
  - FridayoLeary 4y ago
    Exactly. I read "Eco mode" (which can be found on virtually any product today) as 'ignore entirely'.
    - distances 4y ago
      I have a dishwasher and washing machine from Siemens (nowadays the same as Bosch, just different branding). European models around 400€ each. Eco mode washes perfectly fine on both of them, that's what I always use. Takes over three hours but that's not an issue for me.
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      The Department of Energy actually banned the SpeedQueen TC5 washer model a few years back because it didn't have a sufficient eco mode (read this as: it automated more of the washing work for you than the government would allow) The workaround is that modern SpeedQueen washers have a "normal/eco" default mode which doesn't do a good job at all. This mode exists to satisfy the DoE policy. The washer is intended to never be run on this mode, and all the other modes do a fantastic washing job. I have the newer TC5 with the bogus "normal/eco" cycle. It's a great washer as long as the government mandated useless mode isn't selected. Here's a nyt/wirecutter article about it: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/speed-queen-review/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/speed-queen-revie...
yojo 4y ago
I did the same thing with my range hood. Just no reason for those things to have electronics in them. There’s a Canadian company Victory that sells a couple PCB-free models at prices that are reasonable.
- mgdlbp 4y ago
  > PCB-free Interesting coinage. I wonder if something like it will gain traction. I see 'silicon-free' has been used on HN twice in relevant contexts so far: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=silicon-free&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=silicon-free&type=comment
memcg 4y ago
I bought a Whirlpool washer and dryer set in 1982 based on Consumer Reports testing. In 2017, I replaced the washer with a Speed Queen. It was recommended by a friend who owns a few rental houses. The Whirlpool dryer is still running. Anyone else use Consumer Reports?
- sseagull 4y ago
  I do. I bought a house a few years ago, and needed to buy a whole bunch of stuff (lawnmower, generator, washer, dryer, freezer, bed, etc). Really helped pare down what was out there. Largely use it for bigger items, though. I just didn't have it in me to "research" all that stuff online. On one side, you have scummy review sites or sites with uneducated reviewers, and on the other, very opinionated aficionados who want you to spend $$$$$ on every little thing, or else it's just an inferior experience (of mowing the lawn or something). I'm sure CR isn't perfect, but sometimes I just need a recommendation that's not complete garbage and then to move on with life.
alaricus 4y ago
I agree fully. There is a lot of "unnecessarily complicated technology" which should be simplified.
gonzo41 4y ago
I know an executive working for Haier who doesn't really think the smart home thing is going to work out in it's current form. His view is that people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix. The gimmicks of being able to get alerts about the status of appliances to your phone are just fluff. But it's early days and people at the top who make this decisions are still working them out.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life Sounds good, but you can do it with a few sensors leading to an LCD screen (and a manual in a yellowing clear plastic bag taped to the back of the machine.) And you don't have to disable the machine if that microprocessor burns out, or god forbid put an entire computer in there. > and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix. Not only do I not need any appliance to do this, but 1) if they cared about parts and service, they could have a nice website for this stuff, and they don't. So judging them based on that, this will also be neglected (after being marketed.) 2) this would really be a way to prevent people from getting parts who don't have a current service contract, and to screw them on the prices. It would also be a way to take a huge cut from the repair companies who participate in the program, who would also be large rent-seekers (who could make a deal with device manufacturers to be included in the software) skimming just as much by farming out the work to subcontractors. End result: single thing goes wrong, repair and parts cost more than the device. Don't worry, they're running a promotion that gives you credit towards buying their latest model.
- linker3000 4y ago
  I baulked at installing the 'Homewhiz' Android app for my Beko washer/dryer because not only did it want access to my mic and camera, but also GPS and contacts. Instead, I installed a smart plug with power sensor and hooked it up to a phone dashboard via MQTT and Node-RED so I can work out the current state of the machine (by power draw), and as a fun bonus I get an email at the start and end of each wash/dry cycle. That's good enough for me - I can't see the point of being able to set the wash program by phone as I have to be physically at the machine when loading it. If I could use an official app to see machine anomalies or predicted failures without the feeling that I am being bugged or data mined that would be handy. Allegedly, the Homewhiz protocol is 'Open', but references lead to ISO/IEC 30118-4:2021, which is a multi-document spec for which you have to pay. I also would not be surprised if the appliance's Bluetooth connectivity won't play nice unless there's an outbound 'heartbeat' to a remote server via the phone.
pettycashstash2 4y ago
I keep hearing about speed queens. Are they available in the us market? Where would one purchase one ? What is the cost for one?
- memcg 4y ago
  https://speedqueen.com/where-to-buy/ https://speedqueen.com/where-to-buy/
- tomrod 4y ago
  Yep. Check out their website in the sibling comment. The places around me tend to be for "luxury" homes -- surprisingly, the items at these shops tend to be quite low tech. Low tech == modern luxury? We went with a lower end model that cost about 50% more than the similar sized models available at Lowes/Home Depot. Considering we'd already repaired the old unit a handful of times and it cost in that range, we only need it to last about 4 years before we break even.
  - pettycashstash2 4y ago
    I definitely will. I’m getting frustrated with the cleaning of the front load Samsung. Supposedly top end model but maintenance is exhausting
nicbou 4y ago
I do the same. I avoid anything that ties me to the manufacturer. Once one of their MBAs decides that the product line is no longer profitable, the servers go offline, the software stops getting updates, the cartridges stop being produced. I like self-contained products that I can repair myself (within reason). I have growing faith in my ability to repair things. However, manufacturers find it profitable to withhold the tools, parts and knowledge I need to do this.
- boringg 4y ago
  I loathe MBAs and business schools - I strongly feel like that have seriously ruined much of the last 30 years through wasted talent and short sighted profiteering. That and they are so self assured. Oh add in VC for putting such high pressure and excess returns. The model is broken. * I know not all MBAs are like this but there's considerable damage *
tzs 4y ago
My house came in 2007 with a quite old fashioned GE washer [1] and GE dryer [2]. The washer was made in August 2003 and the dryer was made in April 2004. They still work fine and have required no repairs in the 15 years I've had them. [1] https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-3-2-Cu-Ft-Super-Plus-Capacity-Washer-WBSR3140DWW https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-3-2-Cu-Ft-Super-Pl... [2] https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-7-0-Cu-Ft-Super-Capacity-Electric-Dryer-DWSR483EBWW https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-7-0-Cu-Ft-Super-Ca...
NVQXE23I 4y ago
The bearing of my Whirlpool washing machine got corroded due to a leaking seal. So when the drying cycle started, the bearing started screeching so loud that my kids woke up. I decided to replace the bearing and (after measuring) found the correct SKF bearing. After picking it up at the local dealer and paying 7 euro's, I started. But what did Whirlpool do? They made it impossible to remove only the bearing and seal. You had to replace the whole drum, which costs about half of the machine. Why? I emailed Whirlpool and got a reply where I could buy the new drum..SIGH
ikurei 4y ago
> Knobs in the car and on appliances. I want knobs in my car, but I specially want no GPS tracking, no connection to the internet. My not-that-old dead-dinosaur-powered car doesn't have it, but I'd like to switch to an electric car in the next few years and I'm fearing it. Will anyone build an electric but dumb car? I know some of the earlier electrics were dumb (in this desirable sense) but they also had significat compromises. Will it be possible to buy a privacy-respecting, good, new-ish electric car in a few years? It looks unlikely... (I'm honestly asking, someone here will know way more than me about this)
- edzillion 4y ago
  Well if you're in the EU then no, unless you can overturn the legislation. > The Background: In 2019, the European Commission and the European Council jointly approved a regulation that will require new safety measures in motor vehicles starting July 2022, including the installation of so-called "Event Data Recorders," a device similar to "black boxes" in aircrafts. From what I heard the car company has access to this device at all times and does not need a court order to listen in. They are supposed to only use it when the car has had an accident but it's a terrible precedent. Edit: forgot the link https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/black-boxes-in-automobiles-european-5035475/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/black-boxes-in-automobiles...
  - ikurei 4y ago
    Thank you, I didn't know about this. I'll have a read but at first sight I wonder if this Event Recorder couldn't just work offline like an airplane's black box; would that just be super expensive? My car recording what happens for accidents doesn't sound awful. It could even record my last 30 minutes of locations, all you would need to analyze a crash. It recording my locations long-term, and specially sending them somewhere, sucks.
- Bud 4y ago
  I'd say Apple is basically your only hope. And it remains to be seen whether Apple's car will ever ship, and if it does, it might not be available for the public to purchase.
zen_1 4y ago
I've been semi in the market for my first car, and fully touch interfaces are a hard deabreaker for me, as are subscription services. I don't want to have to look away from the road to change the volume or turn the Radio off, and I don't get why so many cars force you to these days.
DeathArrow 4y ago
>I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. But how much time is still possible to find boring technology? Unless you find used? And you won't find used for a very long amount of time. Maybe this is a good business case, produce boring technology for people who don't want connected cupboards and dish washer and prefer physical controls over digital interfaces.
- heretogetout 4y ago
  It might be easier to produce retrofit (pun intended?) kits for appliances that have good core components but could be improved with some tactile dials and what have you.
- blagie 4y ago
  What I'd really like are normal keys for my car -- not $300 remote starters or whatever other nonsense. I put it in, and I turn it. Is there a way to dumbify a car?
  - grogenaut 4y ago
    yes, people will take the chip out of the key and glue it to the sensor in the steering column for the ines that are still key based. for prox based ones, not sure.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
iratewizard 4y ago
It should be noted that the Bob cartridge is completely optional you can also just add regular detergent as per the manufacturer.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jahewson 4y ago
Repairability is great but it does often come at the cost of efficiency. I found this to be the case with my washer. You can end up spending so much extra on electricity that you could have replaced the washer anyway. This was also the case with my subcompact car. It needed a $400 repair but the entire powertrain is integrated so you have to spend $4000 in labor disassembling and reassembling it.
- tomrod 4y ago
  This sounds more like forced obsolescence.

by tomrod 4y ago

throwxxxaway 4y ago

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

bombcar 4y ago
We are getting old - but part of getting old is remembering things that could be repaired instead of thrown away.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  The door on our $1200 2 year old refrigerator started cracking at the hinge. I had a credit card warranty on it, so I foolishly tried to hire an appliance repair company to fix it. They charged $150 to look at it for 10 minutes and say all they could do is replace the whole door, and quoted $900. I spent 45 minutes fixing it myself with some extruded aluminum and some rivets. The warranty coverage allowed for self-repair, so I ended up "earning" roughly my equivalent hourly rate as a software engineer.
fifticon 4y ago
I've justed installed 5 years' worth of Revit on my new laptop today, and with each year the UI on their installers are getting worse. On Revit 2022, some of the splash screen prompts are not resizable and not MOVABLE, ie they don't respond to alt+space for windows menu. This is not OK. On one of them, I had to answer input prompts that they rendered OFF SCREEN. I solved that by changing display resolution.. Another showed a clipped path of a missing install file, which thus couldnt be identified.. I solved that by moving the install files to c:/2/ (to get a shorter path it could display). No, things are getting worse, today's ui is made with crayons :-/
- j-bos 4y ago
  Revit installs are the worst. Iused to freelance for an engineer and once I moved on from that it was amazing how much cruft from Autodesk was left on my machine. I'm guessing most of it was based on anti piracy measures. I often wonder how much overlap there is between anti piracy, ani cheat, and "productivity" measuring tech.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > I often wonder how much overlap there is between anti piracy, ani cheat, and "productivity" measuring tech. I've never heard it put this succinctly. Are the same companies doing all of these things because the expertise transfers? Do they have journals and conferences together?
  - vagrantJin 4y ago
    Reminds me of Adobe. The sheer number of dubious services and "stuff" and god awful updates is insane. All this just for Acrobat. Using Firefox to read PDFs now and its a pleasure. Its blazingly fast and does exactly what I need. Adobe can jump off a cliff.
netr0ute 4y ago
> Can it be that we are just getting old? That's rich, considering that I'm 18 and I have the same views.
- LoveGracePeace 4y ago
  It's encouraging to read that young people are starting to get a good foothold on the ground. Tech is cool and helpful but only as far as we can throw it when it breaks.
  - skeeter2020 4y ago
    Agree! please keep up the fight. Use the benefits (like ad blocking making YT watchable) to encourage other young people to fight too!
    - LoveGracePeace 4y ago
      Hold on there. Ads popping up on YT are annoying but it's up to the user to decide if they are worth the content they're watching, same as TV or print or the radio. Using an Ad blocker in my view is no different than stealing.
      - detaro 4y ago
        > same as TV is switching channels or otherwise ignoring the TV while ads are on also stealing?
      - feanaro 4y ago
        Nope. Website sends information to my computer, my computer displays it the way I want it to be displayed. The website sending the information doesn't own my computer.
      - progman32 4y ago
        Toss in SponsorBlock to auto skip time wasters and Unhook to hide the manipulative recommendation feed and other noise, too! Life is too short to waste it on advertisements. Not using a piece of a service (the ads) is not stealing, nor likely is it violating any service contact.
gonzo41 4y ago
If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. --for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs. So in this instance grandpa would be using the smart contract to buy ledger space for a NFT about food? Because NFT's arn't food.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. The very same people will claim that you can ignore ads and they aren't a problem, and that free market is efficient and doesn't waste resources
- tunap 4y ago
  >If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore ads(sic). If you had toddlers in the early 00's(the only time I witnessed it), or were a toddler then, you were likely exposed to plenty of Disney Channel and the frequent barrage of 10 second commercials. Bad programming, IMO.
  - MandieD 4y ago
    This is why my near two year old is unaware that there is an uncountable number of hours of video made specifically to appeal to his age group. I know he'll find out sooner or later, and that it can even be called up on demand if your mommy is nice enough, but I want to keep those little brain cells engaged primarily with the quiet, physical world as long as possible.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Typically parents at that time had to pay for it. Now? Youtube is nuts.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  > If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. There's some reason to think that this has already happened to some extent. In particular, many of the changed purchasing habits of millennials vs genX and boomers are usually attributed to ad-blindness. You'd expect this to go even further in the next generation.
lbotos 4y ago
Maybe? My microwave has something like 20 buttons, I really wish it had two knobs: - Time - Power Hell, print a guide on the inside of the door on how to adjust power for defrosting or whatever. I rarely ever press more than :30 button, and changing power is more annoying than it should be. https://ellis.fyi/tag/knobs/ https://ellis.fyi/tag/knobs/
- nicbou 4y ago
  My bomann microwave is exactly that, and it's great
- tzs 4y ago
  Some of the fancy microwave features can actually be useful though. The "sensor cook" on mine does a really great job with potatoes for example. They come out about as good with that as they do when I bake them in the toaster oven or regular oven using a thermometer to determine the cooking time, but the microwave is a lot faster and less effort.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  The other day I accidentally grilled my instant meal because I selected the wavy grill icon instead of the wavy microwave icon on my combi-oven. Molten plastic everywhere :-/ It does have a knob for selecting the time though. I get that icons are easier because you don't need to translate things for every country, but surely it can't be that much effort or expensive? My washing machine has text in Dutch and French, and it was one of the cheaper options.
- robocat 4y ago
  You can buy whiteware with a usable UI, but you need to go to a display room and try the models with the intent of checking usability, and then paying the premium that usually occurs. Also if possible talk to the service guys and work out what is reliable and maintainable. I regularly hear people complain about their devices, because usability wasn’t considered due to different root causes. Some people don’t know anything about usability (not a “Senior Support Engineering Manager”), some people buy cheap, some people don’t get to choose (rent), many people don’t think to check usability, some people let their partner buy something unsuitable. If you use a kitchen, then pay attention to what other practical friends use. Your appliances are tools you work with: spend effort to buy good tools. I bought a Breville Quick Start microwave, chosen for combination of brand trust, price, and usability. It has a rotating power knob, a rotating timer knob, a 30 second quick start button, and a bunch of feature buttons which I don’t use hidden in the door jam. Rotate the knobs to change power or time while the microwave is running: https://www.breville.com/au/en/products/microwaves/bmo735.html https://www.breville.com/au/en/products/microwaves/bmo735.ht...
Frost1x 4y ago
Societies and culture go in wrong directions frequently. The older you grow, the more experience and knowledge you have to recognize bad trends, anticonsumer practices, and outright abusive behaviors. While some of getting old for many is turning into a creature of habit fighting off any and all change, for many it's rejecting what is identified as bad/harmful change or change that exists for no apparent reason. Not all old people are luddites or simply too inept to deal with change, sometimes they make conscious decisions to reject a given change yet are forced by the rest of society on occasion to deal with it. New technologies need to clarify the tradeoffs that exist and what the real value add is beyond marketing propoganda. Many are obsessed with social media and smart devices all over their home (regardless of age). Meanwhile, people who frequent this site are largely technologists who are very tech savvy, sometimes the people creating these very systems, and many of them actively reject such technology and systems because they know exactly how harmful things can be. It's not because they're old, it's because they're informed. More and more business practices are losing their alignment with society and pulling more value than they create and people simply don't want to deal with it. I applaud markets actually functioning healthily and rejecting abusive practices. This DRM may exist for a lot of good reasons, refillability simply may be impractical after skimming over the writeup for some. Meanwhile you have systems like DRM on KCups coffee makers that are completely ludicrous.
- noduerme 4y ago
  I remember my grandfather in Vegas lamenting that allowing people to wear trashy street clothes or anything less than formal wear / suit and tie into the casinos, or on airplanes, would lead to more and more bad behavior. This seemed incredibly uncool and old-fashioned at the time, but it turns out he was right. Decades of increasingly lax social codes around how people present themselves in public have led to generations of people who don't know how to behave politely in public. This struck me with full force when I was invited to the Magic Castle in LA, one of the last venues to require formal wear at all times. One of the most magical things about that place is how it transforms a whole range of everyday visitors who might be people you wouldn't want to hang out with at their local bar into highly civilized men and women on their tip-top behavior. Vegas and air travel both used to operate on this principle. Now we might call it "LARPing" but when it was a social norm it was called "going out". I don't think it's my getting older that caused me to think more like my grandfather. I think time proved him right.
dreamcompiler 4y ago
No. It's that the UI, privacy leakage, software, and electronic engineering of these things is simply horrible. I'd be happy with IoT appliances iff: --They weren't designed to fail because of poor power conditioning and thermal management. --They weren't vectors for botnets due to poor security. --They ran on my personal cloud or LAN rather than some godawful Chinese server. --I had veto power over all SW updates, and I could roll them back. --They didn't constantly beep at me as if I were their servant, rather than the other way around. --Their MTBF was longer than "dumb" appliances rather than shorter. I can design systems like this, but apparently the big white goods manufacturers cannot, or don't want to.
- tomrod 4y ago
  They don't think there is a market for it OR they don't put it into their core principles. There is a market for it.
skeeter2020 4y ago
I think part of this is inevitable, but I am still very concerned because we cannot rewire our brains in less than single generation, and despite what many think you are paying attention to those ads. My parents might struggle with technology but I'd argue it's because they are trying to do something basic (like access the internet) or of value (like watch their favourite streaming series). I'm not convinced these new "value extraction" pain points that cause us hardship are the same.
jotm 4y ago
No, I can ignore ads very well. I just buy what I need after a lot of research (and sadly good/real reviews are harder to come by). All new advancements in "tech" have actually been in money making. Like appliances that require special cartridges for no good reason other than it being more profitable for the manufacturer. They finally adapter the printer-ink model, heh. Did you know most contracts forbid recycling companies from taking out parts and selling them? Because it would cut into profits on overpriced spare parts, of course (official reason is "we can't trust that they'll perform well"). And so they go to landfills or at best, are melted down into something usable at huge energy costs. Yes, people will put up with it. I hope not for long. I know people making 50k/year (good salary for EU) and literally spending it all on the "best" shit, who wish to buy a house and saying it's impossible. Then there's the people making 20k/year who save for many long years and buy a 300k+ house, or at least an apartment. Willing to bet who will be better off in a decade or so? Or whose kids? Ha ha, I might actually lose that bet if a war or catastrophic natural events happen.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
the_third_wave 4y ago
> The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads ...upon which the brain wiring experts get bought and rewire those brains to only see "approved" ads which gives the wheel another push. Around and around it goes, like a circle game.
7952 4y ago
I think it depends on the specific technology. I know older people who were excited to get a smart TV where younger people use a phone, dongles or even a laptops. Sometimes they need the smarts more and are less able to escape it. And there are still older tech fans who love finding the future.
VBprogrammer 4y ago
Having seen the confusion on my daughter's face when pressing skip ad on the TV didn't work I'm inclined to agree somewhat.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Sounds like she hates ads as much as the rest of us.
entropyie 4y ago
I advise you to go visit a Stasi museum in Germany sometime, look at what they were able to do with paper documents and film/tape. Now imagine what they could do with today's telemetry obsessed economy. When I was in my 20s I thought democracy was a given... "getting old" might just mean you've been alive long enough to realise that democracy is fragile and the shit sometimes hits the fan... We are one misguided vote away from handing over the ultimate panopticon to a malevolent government, and we will never be able to organise a resistance to win power back, because it will be snuffed out in its infancy .

throwaway09223 4y ago

SpeedQueen owner here as well. Even more important than repairability is that the SpeedQueen actually cleans my clothes. In the 80s I remember coming home with mud caked on my clothes, shaking them off and throwing them in the washer. I'd even throw my muddy sneakers in the wash. If I try that with a modern low-water unit there's still dirt on them after a wash. The SpeedQueen will handle this kind of heavy soiling. It seems like modern washers are designed for modern (mostly indoor) living. They freshen clothes, but they don't really wash them.

mgdlbp 4y ago
This is about dishwashers, but I once read about regulation-enforced water/energy-saving cycles resulting in ineffective cleaning, which backfired, as people then got in the habit of always selecting the heaviest cycle or even re-adopted pre-rinsing. Searching for the concept now, I can only find this article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-again-11571003417 https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-aga...
- FridayoLeary 4y ago
  Exactly. I read "Eco mode" (which can be found on virtually any product today) as 'ignore entirely'.
  - distances 4y ago
    I have a dishwasher and washing machine from Siemens (nowadays the same as Bosch, just different branding). European models around 400€ each. Eco mode washes perfectly fine on both of them, that's what I always use. Takes over three hours but that's not an issue for me.
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    The Department of Energy actually banned the SpeedQueen TC5 washer model a few years back because it didn't have a sufficient eco mode (read this as: it automated more of the washing work for you than the government would allow) The workaround is that modern SpeedQueen washers have a "normal/eco" default mode which doesn't do a good job at all. This mode exists to satisfy the DoE policy. The washer is intended to never be run on this mode, and all the other modes do a fantastic washing job. I have the newer TC5 with the bogus "normal/eco" cycle. It's a great washer as long as the government mandated useless mode isn't selected. Here's a nyt/wirecutter article about it: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/speed-queen-review/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/speed-queen-revie...

yojo 4y ago

I did the same thing with my range hood. Just no reason for those things to have electronics in them. There’s a Canadian company Victory that sells a couple PCB-free models at prices that are reasonable.

mgdlbp 4y ago
> PCB-free Interesting coinage. I wonder if something like it will gain traction. I see 'silicon-free' has been used on HN twice in relevant contexts so far: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=silicon-free&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=silicon-free&type=comment

memcg 4y ago

I bought a Whirlpool washer and dryer set in 1982 based on Consumer Reports testing. In 2017, I replaced the washer with a Speed Queen. It was recommended by a friend who owns a few rental houses. The Whirlpool dryer is still running. Anyone else use Consumer Reports?

sseagull 4y ago
I do. I bought a house a few years ago, and needed to buy a whole bunch of stuff (lawnmower, generator, washer, dryer, freezer, bed, etc). Really helped pare down what was out there. Largely use it for bigger items, though. I just didn't have it in me to "research" all that stuff online. On one side, you have scummy review sites or sites with uneducated reviewers, and on the other, very opinionated aficionados who want you to spend $$$$$ on every little thing, or else it's just an inferior experience (of mowing the lawn or something). I'm sure CR isn't perfect, but sometimes I just need a recommendation that's not complete garbage and then to move on with life.

alaricus 4y ago

I agree fully. There is a lot of "unnecessarily complicated technology" which should be simplified.

gonzo41 4y ago

I know an executive working for Haier who doesn't really think the smart home thing is going to work out in it's current form. His view is that people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix. The gimmicks of being able to get alerts about the status of appliances to your phone are just fluff. But it's early days and people at the top who make this decisions are still working them out.

pessimizer 4y ago
> people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life Sounds good, but you can do it with a few sensors leading to an LCD screen (and a manual in a yellowing clear plastic bag taped to the back of the machine.) And you don't have to disable the machine if that microprocessor burns out, or god forbid put an entire computer in there. > and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix. Not only do I not need any appliance to do this, but 1) if they cared about parts and service, they could have a nice website for this stuff, and they don't. So judging them based on that, this will also be neglected (after being marketed.) 2) this would really be a way to prevent people from getting parts who don't have a current service contract, and to screw them on the prices. It would also be a way to take a huge cut from the repair companies who participate in the program, who would also be large rent-seekers (who could make a deal with device manufacturers to be included in the software) skimming just as much by farming out the work to subcontractors. End result: single thing goes wrong, repair and parts cost more than the device. Don't worry, they're running a promotion that gives you credit towards buying their latest model.
linker3000 4y ago
I baulked at installing the 'Homewhiz' Android app for my Beko washer/dryer because not only did it want access to my mic and camera, but also GPS and contacts. Instead, I installed a smart plug with power sensor and hooked it up to a phone dashboard via MQTT and Node-RED so I can work out the current state of the machine (by power draw), and as a fun bonus I get an email at the start and end of each wash/dry cycle. That's good enough for me - I can't see the point of being able to set the wash program by phone as I have to be physically at the machine when loading it. If I could use an official app to see machine anomalies or predicted failures without the feeling that I am being bugged or data mined that would be handy. Allegedly, the Homewhiz protocol is 'Open', but references lead to ISO/IEC 30118-4:2021, which is a multi-document spec for which you have to pay. I also would not be surprised if the appliance's Bluetooth connectivity won't play nice unless there's an outbound 'heartbeat' to a remote server via the phone.

pettycashstash2 4y ago

I keep hearing about speed queens. Are they available in the us market? Where would one purchase one ? What is the cost for one?

memcg 4y ago
https://speedqueen.com/where-to-buy/ https://speedqueen.com/where-to-buy/
tomrod 4y ago
Yep. Check out their website in the sibling comment. The places around me tend to be for "luxury" homes -- surprisingly, the items at these shops tend to be quite low tech. Low tech == modern luxury? We went with a lower end model that cost about 50% more than the similar sized models available at Lowes/Home Depot. Considering we'd already repaired the old unit a handful of times and it cost in that range, we only need it to last about 4 years before we break even.
- pettycashstash2 4y ago
  I definitely will. I’m getting frustrated with the cleaning of the front load Samsung. Supposedly top end model but maintenance is exhausting

nicbou 4y ago

I do the same. I avoid anything that ties me to the manufacturer. Once one of their MBAs decides that the product line is no longer profitable, the servers go offline, the software stops getting updates, the cartridges stop being produced. I like self-contained products that I can repair myself (within reason). I have growing faith in my ability to repair things. However, manufacturers find it profitable to withhold the tools, parts and knowledge I need to do this.

boringg 4y ago
I loathe MBAs and business schools - I strongly feel like that have seriously ruined much of the last 30 years through wasted talent and short sighted profiteering. That and they are so self assured. Oh add in VC for putting such high pressure and excess returns. The model is broken. * I know not all MBAs are like this but there's considerable damage *

tzs 4y ago

My house came in 2007 with a quite old fashioned GE washer [1] and GE dryer [2]. The washer was made in August 2003 and the dryer was made in April 2004. They still work fine and have required no repairs in the 15 years I've had them. [1] https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-3-2-Cu-Ft-Super-Plus-Capacity-Washer-WBSR3140DWW https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-3-2-Cu-Ft-Super-Pl... [2] https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-7-0-Cu-Ft-Super-Capacity-Electric-Dryer-DWSR483EBWW https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-7-0-Cu-Ft-Super-Ca...

NVQXE23I 4y ago

The bearing of my Whirlpool washing machine got corroded due to a leaking seal. So when the drying cycle started, the bearing started screeching so loud that my kids woke up. I decided to replace the bearing and (after measuring) found the correct SKF bearing. After picking it up at the local dealer and paying 7 euro's, I started. But what did Whirlpool do? They made it impossible to remove only the bearing and seal. You had to replace the whole drum, which costs about half of the machine. Why? I emailed Whirlpool and got a reply where I could buy the new drum..SIGH

ikurei 4y ago

> Knobs in the car and on appliances. I want knobs in my car, but I specially want no GPS tracking, no connection to the internet. My not-that-old dead-dinosaur-powered car doesn't have it, but I'd like to switch to an electric car in the next few years and I'm fearing it. Will anyone build an electric but dumb car? I know some of the earlier electrics were dumb (in this desirable sense) but they also had significat compromises. Will it be possible to buy a privacy-respecting, good, new-ish electric car in a few years? It looks unlikely... (I'm honestly asking, someone here will know way more than me about this)

edzillion 4y ago
Well if you're in the EU then no, unless you can overturn the legislation. > The Background: In 2019, the European Commission and the European Council jointly approved a regulation that will require new safety measures in motor vehicles starting July 2022, including the installation of so-called "Event Data Recorders," a device similar to "black boxes" in aircrafts. From what I heard the car company has access to this device at all times and does not need a court order to listen in. They are supposed to only use it when the car has had an accident but it's a terrible precedent. Edit: forgot the link https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/black-boxes-in-automobiles-european-5035475/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/black-boxes-in-automobiles...
- ikurei 4y ago
  Thank you, I didn't know about this. I'll have a read but at first sight I wonder if this Event Recorder couldn't just work offline like an airplane's black box; would that just be super expensive? My car recording what happens for accidents doesn't sound awful. It could even record my last 30 minutes of locations, all you would need to analyze a crash. It recording my locations long-term, and specially sending them somewhere, sucks.
Bud 4y ago
I'd say Apple is basically your only hope. And it remains to be seen whether Apple's car will ever ship, and if it does, it might not be available for the public to purchase.

zen_1 4y ago

I've been semi in the market for my first car, and fully touch interfaces are a hard deabreaker for me, as are subscription services. I don't want to have to look away from the road to change the volume or turn the Radio off, and I don't get why so many cars force you to these days.

DeathArrow 4y ago

>I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. But how much time is still possible to find boring technology? Unless you find used? And you won't find used for a very long amount of time. Maybe this is a good business case, produce boring technology for people who don't want connected cupboards and dish washer and prefer physical controls over digital interfaces.

heretogetout 4y ago
It might be easier to produce retrofit (pun intended?) kits for appliances that have good core components but could be improved with some tactile dials and what have you.
blagie 4y ago
What I'd really like are normal keys for my car -- not $300 remote starters or whatever other nonsense. I put it in, and I turn it. Is there a way to dumbify a car?
- grogenaut 4y ago
  yes, people will take the chip out of the key and glue it to the sensor in the steering column for the ines that are still key based. for prox based ones, not sure.
deleted 4y ago
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iratewizard 4y ago

It should be noted that the Bob cartridge is completely optional you can also just add regular detergent as per the manufacturer.

deleted 4y ago

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jahewson 4y ago

Repairability is great but it does often come at the cost of efficiency. I found this to be the case with my washer. You can end up spending so much extra on electricity that you could have replaced the washer anyway. This was also the case with my subcompact car. It needed a $400 repair but the entire powertrain is integrated so you have to spend $4000 in labor disassembling and reassembling it.

tomrod 4y ago
This sounds more like forced obsolescence.