4 ms·

1) what was the issue with not connecting it to WiFi in the first place? 2) surely the fact that it has WiFi was known at purchase time? Despite what the inter

1) what was the issue with not connecting it to WiFi in the first place? 2) surely the fact that it has WiFi was known at purchase time? Despite what the internet would lead you to believe, there is still a lot of fridges without WiFi and "smart" features out there, why not buy one of those rather than mess with this? Edit: point 2 was addressed in the article, sorry I missed it

blenderdt 4y ago
There are rumors it will try to connect to an open network when in range. Related HN question from years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350
- speedgoose 4y ago
  It's also official feature if you have an Amazon product, it will connect to an Amazon WiFi hotspot of another Amazon device: https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 Thankfully it's only an US feature.
paranoidrobot 4y ago
> what was the issue with not connecting it to WiFi in the first place? Like many other 'smart' appliances, it creates it's own AP so allow you to set it up. So anyone within range could attach it to their network, and then do whatever they like with it. > surely the fact that it has WiFi was known at purchase time? It came with the place they're living in. Someone else made that decision.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Is the AP active literally all the time until you set it up? Usually in these devices it only activates once you select an option in the menu, or shortly after first start - but yeah, if it's on 24/7 until configured, then I agree that's a problem.
  - paranoidrobot 4y ago
    I don't know, I don't have the device. I do have a Samsung TV, and no matter what I do, I can't turn off the Wifi/Bluetooth radios in it - and several of my neighbours keep trying to connect to it. The Google Chromecasts continually broadcast their AP when not fully set up. A neighbour has a bluetooth/wifi speaker that pushed some kind of "Do you want to set up your X brand speaker now?" prompt to my phone. There's a few other smart devices near me that are also broadcasting open APs that never seem to go away.
- kergonath 4y ago
  > It came with the place they're living in. Someone else made that decision. It is irrelevant anyway. Buying something with the intent of modding it is not that unreasonable.
- moolcool 4y ago
  > Like many other 'smart' appliances, it creates it's own AP so allow you to set it up. So anyone within range could attach it to their network, and then do whatever they like with it. Considering the security risk of smart devices generally working like this, I feel like the industry ought to standardize on something more sensible. Maybe some kind of NFC pairing?
  - yrro 4y ago
    It's called WPS. God knows why manufacturers prefer to do something as iduotic as crearing their own WiFi access point rather than using it!
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      WPS is severely broken and insecure. And the QR/NFC thing they added to replace it will require quite new devices.
      - yrro 4y ago
        WPS PIN method is severely broken and insecure, absolutely typical of most stuff put out by the Wi-Fi Alliance. As far as I know, WPS push button method is fine. I haven't ever needed or wanted to try to use the NFC method, I would disable it on any equipment I installed until I had a need for it. And even then I would do some research to see how badly the Wi-Fi Alliance fucked it up before making a judgement about whether I would feel comfortable enabling it.
    - Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
      Depending on the router manufacturer you may not be able to disable WPS pin and keep WPS push button (this is the case of the router that was supplied by my ISP as it comes with a rather dumbed down UI, not sure if I could disable it via editing a settings backup file and applying that back to the router as I use my own equipment, but most consumers will just use the router issued to them from their ISP). WPS enter pin has a max number of possibilities of 11k pins (it checks the pin in 2 half’s and the last digit is a check digit, so 10k possibilities for the first half and 999 possibilities for the 2nd half), and some routers don’t rate limit the connection requests. Some router manufacturers fixed the issue by removing WPS pin, others “fixed” it by rate limiting WPS pin connection attempts, but that will just delay the attack. So we are left with WPS Push button (if that’s available because as stated above, consumer routers may only allow disabling WPS completely rather than just disable WPS pin). But thats a bit of a pain for items like Shellys that are designed to be put behind fixtures. But yeah, in the case of a fridge and most other consumer grade equipment putting a push button somewhere for WPS Push Button should be easy to factor in.
ant6n 4y ago
> 2) … there is still a lot of fridges without WiFi and "smart" features out there, … for now. That’s not true anymore for example for TVs.
- cgrealy 4y ago
  Yeah, but Wi-Fi for a tv makes sense. It’s borderline mandatory for the way people consume content these days. Wi-Fi for fridges is available, but no one seems that bothered by it.
2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
The appliances came with the property.
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
Were I making the purchasing decision, wifi wouldn't factor in. If the fridge that turns out to be the best option happened to have wifi, then I'd trust myself to work out how to jail it, whether hardware "off"-ing it as per this guy, or blackholing it's connection, or just not connecting it at all (with the knowledge that some devices are rumoured to connect to any accessible open wifi).
- kergonath 4y ago
  > with the knowledge that some devices are rumoured to connect to any accessible open wifi It is also quite possible that these come with cellular connectivity in the future as well…
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    Is it legal to use a jammer on appliances that you've purchased? Just need to know where one can purchase said cellular jammer...
    - tpxl 4y ago
      It's generally going to be easier to disable the signal circuits on the appliances than to jam them. Either wrap them in foil, disconnect the circuits, or wait for some brave soul to figure out what to break for it to stop working. That being said, jamming is relatively easy, just saturate the channel you want to jam with noise. That will also probably kill your cellular connection though.
    - kergonath 4y ago
      YMMV, but around here jammers are illegal, full stop. I suppose one could put their appliances in a faraday cage or wrap them in tin foil…
prmoustache 4y ago
2) Author mentionned it came with the place.
nixass 4y ago
>>2. surely the fact that it has WiFi was known at purchase time? It says right there in the article: these appliances came with the new place so i’ll be stuck with these i imagine for some time

blenderdt 4y ago

There are rumors it will try to connect to an open network when in range. Related HN question from years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350

speedgoose 4y ago
It's also official feature if you have an Amazon product, it will connect to an Amazon WiFi hotspot of another Amazon device: https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011 Thankfully it's only an US feature.

paranoidrobot 4y ago

> what was the issue with not connecting it to WiFi in the first place? Like many other 'smart' appliances, it creates it's own AP so allow you to set it up. So anyone within range could attach it to their network, and then do whatever they like with it. > surely the fact that it has WiFi was known at purchase time? It came with the place they're living in. Someone else made that decision.

gambiting 4y ago
Is the AP active literally all the time until you set it up? Usually in these devices it only activates once you select an option in the menu, or shortly after first start - but yeah, if it's on 24/7 until configured, then I agree that's a problem.
- paranoidrobot 4y ago
  I don't know, I don't have the device. I do have a Samsung TV, and no matter what I do, I can't turn off the Wifi/Bluetooth radios in it - and several of my neighbours keep trying to connect to it. The Google Chromecasts continually broadcast their AP when not fully set up. A neighbour has a bluetooth/wifi speaker that pushed some kind of "Do you want to set up your X brand speaker now?" prompt to my phone. There's a few other smart devices near me that are also broadcasting open APs that never seem to go away.
kergonath 4y ago
> It came with the place they're living in. Someone else made that decision. It is irrelevant anyway. Buying something with the intent of modding it is not that unreasonable.
moolcool 4y ago
> Like many other 'smart' appliances, it creates it's own AP so allow you to set it up. So anyone within range could attach it to their network, and then do whatever they like with it. Considering the security risk of smart devices generally working like this, I feel like the industry ought to standardize on something more sensible. Maybe some kind of NFC pairing?
- yrro 4y ago
  It's called WPS. God knows why manufacturers prefer to do something as iduotic as crearing their own WiFi access point rather than using it!
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    WPS is severely broken and insecure. And the QR/NFC thing they added to replace it will require quite new devices.
    - yrro 4y ago
      WPS PIN method is severely broken and insecure, absolutely typical of most stuff put out by the Wi-Fi Alliance. As far as I know, WPS push button method is fine. I haven't ever needed or wanted to try to use the NFC method, I would disable it on any equipment I installed until I had a need for it. And even then I would do some research to see how badly the Wi-Fi Alliance fucked it up before making a judgement about whether I would feel comfortable enabling it.
  - Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
    Depending on the router manufacturer you may not be able to disable WPS pin and keep WPS push button (this is the case of the router that was supplied by my ISP as it comes with a rather dumbed down UI, not sure if I could disable it via editing a settings backup file and applying that back to the router as I use my own equipment, but most consumers will just use the router issued to them from their ISP). WPS enter pin has a max number of possibilities of 11k pins (it checks the pin in 2 half’s and the last digit is a check digit, so 10k possibilities for the first half and 999 possibilities for the 2nd half), and some routers don’t rate limit the connection requests. Some router manufacturers fixed the issue by removing WPS pin, others “fixed” it by rate limiting WPS pin connection attempts, but that will just delay the attack. So we are left with WPS Push button (if that’s available because as stated above, consumer routers may only allow disabling WPS completely rather than just disable WPS pin). But thats a bit of a pain for items like Shellys that are designed to be put behind fixtures. But yeah, in the case of a fridge and most other consumer grade equipment putting a push button somewhere for WPS Push Button should be easy to factor in.

ant6n 4y ago

> 2) … there is still a lot of fridges without WiFi and "smart" features out there, … for now. That’s not true anymore for example for TVs.

cgrealy 4y ago
Yeah, but Wi-Fi for a tv makes sense. It’s borderline mandatory for the way people consume content these days. Wi-Fi for fridges is available, but no one seems that bothered by it.

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago

The appliances came with the property.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago

Were I making the purchasing decision, wifi wouldn't factor in. If the fridge that turns out to be the best option happened to have wifi, then I'd trust myself to work out how to jail it, whether hardware "off"-ing it as per this guy, or blackholing it's connection, or just not connecting it at all (with the knowledge that some devices are rumoured to connect to any accessible open wifi).

kergonath 4y ago
> with the knowledge that some devices are rumoured to connect to any accessible open wifi It is also quite possible that these come with cellular connectivity in the future as well…
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Is it legal to use a jammer on appliances that you've purchased? Just need to know where one can purchase said cellular jammer...
  - tpxl 4y ago
    It's generally going to be easier to disable the signal circuits on the appliances than to jam them. Either wrap them in foil, disconnect the circuits, or wait for some brave soul to figure out what to break for it to stop working. That being said, jamming is relatively easy, just saturate the channel you want to jam with noise. That will also probably kill your cellular connection though.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    YMMV, but around here jammers are illegal, full stop. I suppose one could put their appliances in a faraday cage or wrap them in tin foil…

prmoustache 4y ago

2) Author mentionned it came with the place.

nixass 4y ago

>>2. surely the fact that it has WiFi was known at purchase time? It says right there in the article: these appliances came with the new place so i’ll be stuck with these i imagine for some time