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That's all the more reason to publish and promote good instructions.

giantrobot 4y ago
Good instructions to a lay populace aren't necessarily helpful. Babies are pretty fragile. Slightly undercooked ingredients, slightly improper ratios, or just substitutions made out of ignorance can kill them. It's not DIY chocolate milk powder. A slightly off recipe or preparation won't just taste funny while being otherwise safe.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  I think people would trust the government and authorities generally more, if those authorities weren't constantly lying to them. The authorities could say "Here is a rigorous procedure for DIY formula. We strongly recommend against using this, except in an emergency, because slight deviations could result in harm or death for the baby." Instead, they seem to give the impression that DIY formula is never advisable or borderline impossible - which is probably wrong, and that misrepresentation makes people distrust authorities more generally.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    A rigorous procedure involves precise measurements, ph testing, and other things many people do not understand let alone have the capability to execute. But could easily attempt anyway and fuck up
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      I don't know anything about the safe DIY manufacture of baby formula, but, even if I assumed what you are saying is true, and I'm pretty confident you're wrong, that isn't even an argument. We should deny people good instructions, forcing those who want to try to use bad instructions, because some people might incorrectly follow the good instructions?
      - giantrobot 4y ago
        You can't provide "good instructions" for something that needs high levels of control in the manufacture. The process is as much a part of the recipe as the ingredients. It's much more rational to put resources into fixing the shortages rather than having people get their babies sick because they didn't completely sterilize a pot because it wasn't explicitly outlined in the recipe.
        ALittleLight 4y ago
        I see two parts to your comment. The first part is obviously wrong. You can provide good instructions for things that need a high level of control. Baby formula is not made by magic and I doubt very much that it needs some impossible level of precision to create. The second part of your comment is simply a false dichotomy. Releasing high quality instructions would not affect the rate at which the baby formula shortage is addressed.
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        There is no safe DIY manufacture of baby formula. It’s just not something you should attempt without being an expert. Step one is to become an expert. The reason to not put out a set of instructions that people cannot follow is because they cannot follow it, and those that attempt to follow it will likely make serious mistakes. It would do more harm than good to put out a government sanctioned recipe, no matter how many warnings.
        ALittleLight 4y ago
        That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
        oneoff786 4y ago
        That applies to assertions of fact, not reasoned arguments. There is plenty of evidence that incorrectly produced baby formula is dangerous. There are many studies showing the narrow range of nutrition and form of the baby formula that is safe.
    - imtringued 4y ago
      As others have said, it is impossible to verify your statement because the verification method is kept hidden because "it would be dangerous".
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        You can easily find a list of many steps formula producers go through.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the same bullshit that happened with masks early in the pandemic. Instead of being truthful and saying "It's really important that there be enough masks for hospitals, and we just don't know if masks for the lay populace are helpful because there haven't been enough studies yet," authorities lied and said "masks don't work for the general population". Zeynep Tufekci's article on this topic got it exactly right IMO: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-...

Good instructions to a lay populace aren't necessarily helpful. Babies are pretty fragile. Slightly undercooked ingredients, slightly improper ratios, or just substitutions made out of ignorance can kill them. It's not DIY chocolate milk powder. A slightly off recipe or preparation won't just taste funny while being otherwise safe.

ALittleLight 4y ago
I think people would trust the government and authorities generally more, if those authorities weren't constantly lying to them. The authorities could say "Here is a rigorous procedure for DIY formula. We strongly recommend against using this, except in an emergency, because slight deviations could result in harm or death for the baby." Instead, they seem to give the impression that DIY formula is never advisable or borderline impossible - which is probably wrong, and that misrepresentation makes people distrust authorities more generally.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  A rigorous procedure involves precise measurements, ph testing, and other things many people do not understand let alone have the capability to execute. But could easily attempt anyway and fuck up
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    I don't know anything about the safe DIY manufacture of baby formula, but, even if I assumed what you are saying is true, and I'm pretty confident you're wrong, that isn't even an argument. We should deny people good instructions, forcing those who want to try to use bad instructions, because some people might incorrectly follow the good instructions?
    - giantrobot 4y ago
      You can't provide "good instructions" for something that needs high levels of control in the manufacture. The process is as much a part of the recipe as the ingredients. It's much more rational to put resources into fixing the shortages rather than having people get their babies sick because they didn't completely sterilize a pot because it wasn't explicitly outlined in the recipe.
      - ALittleLight 4y ago
        I see two parts to your comment. The first part is obviously wrong. You can provide good instructions for things that need a high level of control. Baby formula is not made by magic and I doubt very much that it needs some impossible level of precision to create. The second part of your comment is simply a false dichotomy. Releasing high quality instructions would not affect the rate at which the baby formula shortage is addressed.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      There is no safe DIY manufacture of baby formula. It’s just not something you should attempt without being an expert. Step one is to become an expert. The reason to not put out a set of instructions that people cannot follow is because they cannot follow it, and those that attempt to follow it will likely make serious mistakes. It would do more harm than good to put out a government sanctioned recipe, no matter how many warnings.
      - ALittleLight 4y ago
        That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
        oneoff786 4y ago
        That applies to assertions of fact, not reasoned arguments. There is plenty of evidence that incorrectly produced baby formula is dangerous. There are many studies showing the narrow range of nutrition and form of the baby formula that is safe.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    As others have said, it is impossible to verify your statement because the verification method is kept hidden because "it would be dangerous".
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      You can easily find a list of many steps formula producers go through.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the same bullshit that happened with masks early in the pandemic. Instead of being truthful and saying "It's really important that there be enough masks for hospitals, and we just don't know if masks for the lay populace are helpful because there haven't been enough studies yet," authorities lied and said "masks don't work for the general population". Zeynep Tufekci's article on this topic got it exactly right IMO: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-...