13 ms·

> There are really people who are willing to spend five hours, six hours, seven hours on a train Yeah! I have no problem spending 6, 7 hours in a train if I ha

> There are really people who are willing to spend five hours, six hours, seven hours on a train Yeah! I have no problem spending 6, 7 hours in a train if I have a comfy seat, Wifi and someplace where I can get a coffee and some food, like a dining car or a nice vending machine. A clean WC would also be a plus. There is no comfier way to travel, IMO, and you can be productive if you want to, too. As someone who used to use the Munich - Paris TGV regularly, I'm a bit sad that they will use German ICEs, as the french trains are a bit nicer food-wise :D

isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago
And you travel from city center to city center, no security bullshit.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
  ...until the first "incident", after which rail will be subjected to the same measures as air travel
  - anticensor 4y ago
    You would get slightly more controls than airlines actually, due to the fact that trains are simply physically bound to rails.
  - Gare 4y ago
    Hard to hit two skyscrapers with a train. When it comes to railway terrorism, there are more effective infrastructure threats than some guy boarding a passenger train with an explosive.
  - schroeding 4y ago
    Trains were bombed to pieces in Madrid in 2004[1], and since then there were multiple cases of terrorism in european trains. There were incidents galore already, so let's be optimistic that travel by train will stay free of airport-like security. :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      And in Spain you have to enter your ID card # and other personal info for the ticket, and occasional security checks, for all the long distance trains. So the difference to Germany is noticeable due to this history!
kkfx 4y ago
Personally I TOTALLY refuse. For many reasons: - if the purpose of traveling is the pleasure of traveling I need to travel slowly in nature, a short segment at a time, appreciating differences from a place to another; - if the purpose is just going from A to B than the fastest option is the better. More in general such megaprojects means very few earning big money, more concentration of humans, that ALREADY is a big issue alone and a general waste of resources that are already scarce. Public transport is sold to be environmentally friendly, it's the opposite. Big infra are sold as progress, while since they can evolve they aren't sustainable in a rapidly changing world, for what? Well "following the money" I can say some private party profit for building and maintain such monsters, for politicians that have caged people more and more making them unable to do pretty anything on their own. As a former big-city resident sometimes I state to some wannabe environmentalist as a matter of fact polluter: "you say you are eco-friendly because you do anything with a bike/public transport in a city. Yes, you are, needing only a hyper-polluting industry around to let you live that way, a hyper-polluted set of infra around etc. The real name it's hypocrisy like the old adage "I do not oppress others, that's the business of some stakeholder, I offload all such activities to be clean".
- lucb1e 4y ago
  > [then] the fastest option is the better. In the short term at least, ignoring external effects of your doing so. And you're kind of ignoring costs as well, like you wouldn't hire a space shuttle if a 3-hour train ride will do, and airplanes fly so cheaply compared to other transportation because you can avoid most of the fuel taxes (what good/bad could that tax money do, for you or for others? Do you spend the difference on non-profits?). Anyway while this is a big discussion of itself, and includes philosophical/moral dilemmas and tax politics, just saying "go for pleasure or go fast" is definitely thinking too simplistically. > Public transport is sold to be environmentally friendly, it's the opposite. I'm sure you can find exceptions for some specific routes, but as a general rule that's just false. This is so backwards that I really wonder where you get your numbers or ideas from and if it might actually just be a desire to be contrarian or if you're explaining things to yourself in a way that you don't have to feel bad about e.g. a choice not to use public transport.
mindvirus 4y ago
For sure. Plus it is 2 hour flight from Paris to Berlin, factor in extra time to get to/from the airport and 2 hours to get through security and the train isn't far off. I wonder what the price difference will be.
- mathverse 4y ago
  I am a frequent flier in Europe and I have never needed to wait 1 hour one way to get through security. This is not an issue anymore.
  - sdoering 4y ago
    Before Covid I regularly flew HAM - MUC (Hamburg - Munich). For me Taki g the train was not an option. For colleagues it really was. It massively depended on living location. I am 15 minutes by car north of Hamburg airport. I regularly made the trip to my client or into our Munich office in about 4.5 hours. By train some colleagues needed 6 hours into Munich office. Had I lived near the main Hamburg station I could have done the train trip also in 6 hours. But for the plane would habe added 30 - 45 minutes to the airport. I still would have been faster by plane, but would not have gotten as much work done as with going by train. In the end - for me - convenience won (and I would habe added 60 - 90 minutes to the train ride to get from where I live to the Hamburg main station) and I am glad that Covid hot and everybody learned about video meetings. This massively reduces on-site appearances. But trains and planes can reasonably compete on mid distance connections in central Europe imho. Will be testing using the train for the first time in years because the alternative would be driving 1600 km in 4 days and have a full day workshop within these 4 days. Being driven sounds better to me in that case. Let's wait how I feel after the upcoming week.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I spent 1h+ on CDG in November, both going out and in ( from outside of Schengen), for the whole security+ID process. It still happens, depending on the airport and load.
paul_f 4y ago
I took the train from Berlin to Paris in 2018. Was visiting Europe from the US with my son and we did it on a Sunday when nothing was open anyway. No problem with 7 hours on a train. Would have taken at least 5 hours to fly, getting to/from the airports, security, arriving early, etc. Cheaper and more enjoyable to take the train,
- eastbound 4y ago
  Train is 200% more enjoyable… as long as prices remain high. TGV can be as cheap as 30€ offers for Paris-Lyon in first class, or even “board without fare, annoy people, and yet, get the understanding from the controller”, and that’s where problems start: Obnoxious people on board, theft, harassment… under the lenient eye of the controllers, who still give 450€ fine to grandmas who didn’t annoy anyone. I loved TGV and I became vegetarian for CO2 emissions, but I can’t stand this despicable show of class warfare, and I now take my car for travels up to 1000km.
  - ktpsns 4y ago
    Isn't this exactly why first/buisness class is made for? What is your experience with buisness class in TGV? In ICE trains, it makes a difference (i.e. more silence).
    - eastbound 4y ago
      My stories were about first class. The 2 problems are that SNCF has subsidies so that single mothers with 3 babies from different fathers can use the first class; and that agressive people can use it also, without a fare, and controllers only ask for their name (they obviously say “Jean Dupondt” instead “Mouloud Al’Fahir”, and the controller still doesn’t moves much). France thinks everyone deserves to use the first class from time to time.
      - krageon 4y ago
        This is both racist and sexist within two sentences. I've definitely seen a higher density, but not very often. For the casual reader: I have used these trains a number of times and this is definitely not the norm.
herbst 4y ago
I often did 6 hour train trips between Switzerland and Austria and some other routes. I take my laptop some snacks and just enjoy the time.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
> There is no comfier way to travel Have you not been on business class flight?
- ForHackernews 4y ago
  Still have airport security, that stale recycled airplane air, no dining car, and the crappy little airplane toilet. A nice train is still a better experience IMHO.
  - schroeding 4y ago
    That's pretty much it for me too, those things are there regardless of class. Also you have no turbulences in a train, also no safety announcements :D
    - dzhiurgis 4y ago
      FWIW Emirates have a bar and a shower, obvs not on intercity flights tho. Long range flights are so amazing you don’t really wanna leave at all.
  - mathverse 4y ago
    It's not about the journey but about how fast you can get from point A to point B.
    - samatman 4y ago
      If that were true, there would be no first class, because paying 3x as much to shave at most 2% of the journey time doesn't add up. Instead, some people who can afford it buy a nicer experience. By extension, people are also willing to add some time to a journey for a nicer experience. Taking the train from Brussels to London is neither cheaper nor faster, but I can't even imagine choosing the plane unless I was desperately skint or it was an emergency where two hours matters (somehow).
  - gruez 4y ago
vaughan 4y ago
TGV are much worse than ICE. The TGV double-decker sucks. Tiny overhead storage. Bad leg room. Too hot in summer. And toilets are not well maintained. ICE is a much better train configuration. Although the time I used them weekly a few years back they were incredibly unreliable with huge delays.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago

And you travel from city center to city center, no security bullshit.

newaccount2021 4y ago
...until the first "incident", after which rail will be subjected to the same measures as air travel
- anticensor 4y ago
  You would get slightly more controls than airlines actually, due to the fact that trains are simply physically bound to rails.
- Gare 4y ago
  Hard to hit two skyscrapers with a train. When it comes to railway terrorism, there are more effective infrastructure threats than some guy boarding a passenger train with an explosive.
- schroeding 4y ago
  Trains were bombed to pieces in Madrid in 2004[1], and since then there were multiple cases of terrorism in european trains. There were incidents galore already, so let's be optimistic that travel by train will stay free of airport-like security. :) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    And in Spain you have to enter your ID card # and other personal info for the ticket, and occasional security checks, for all the long distance trains. So the difference to Germany is noticeable due to this history!

kkfx 4y ago

Personally I TOTALLY refuse. For many reasons: - if the purpose of traveling is the pleasure of traveling I need to travel slowly in nature, a short segment at a time, appreciating differences from a place to another; - if the purpose is just going from A to B than the fastest option is the better. More in general such megaprojects means very few earning big money, more concentration of humans, that ALREADY is a big issue alone and a general waste of resources that are already scarce. Public transport is sold to be environmentally friendly, it's the opposite. Big infra are sold as progress, while since they can evolve they aren't sustainable in a rapidly changing world, for what? Well "following the money" I can say some private party profit for building and maintain such monsters, for politicians that have caged people more and more making them unable to do pretty anything on their own. As a former big-city resident sometimes I state to some wannabe environmentalist as a matter of fact polluter: "you say you are eco-friendly because you do anything with a bike/public transport in a city. Yes, you are, needing only a hyper-polluting industry around to let you live that way, a hyper-polluted set of infra around etc. The real name it's hypocrisy like the old adage "I do not oppress others, that's the business of some stakeholder, I offload all such activities to be clean".

lucb1e 4y ago
> [then] the fastest option is the better. In the short term at least, ignoring external effects of your doing so. And you're kind of ignoring costs as well, like you wouldn't hire a space shuttle if a 3-hour train ride will do, and airplanes fly so cheaply compared to other transportation because you can avoid most of the fuel taxes (what good/bad could that tax money do, for you or for others? Do you spend the difference on non-profits?). Anyway while this is a big discussion of itself, and includes philosophical/moral dilemmas and tax politics, just saying "go for pleasure or go fast" is definitely thinking too simplistically. > Public transport is sold to be environmentally friendly, it's the opposite. I'm sure you can find exceptions for some specific routes, but as a general rule that's just false. This is so backwards that I really wonder where you get your numbers or ideas from and if it might actually just be a desire to be contrarian or if you're explaining things to yourself in a way that you don't have to feel bad about e.g. a choice not to use public transport.

mindvirus 4y ago

For sure. Plus it is 2 hour flight from Paris to Berlin, factor in extra time to get to/from the airport and 2 hours to get through security and the train isn't far off. I wonder what the price difference will be.

mathverse 4y ago
I am a frequent flier in Europe and I have never needed to wait 1 hour one way to get through security. This is not an issue anymore.
- sdoering 4y ago
  Before Covid I regularly flew HAM - MUC (Hamburg - Munich). For me Taki g the train was not an option. For colleagues it really was. It massively depended on living location. I am 15 minutes by car north of Hamburg airport. I regularly made the trip to my client or into our Munich office in about 4.5 hours. By train some colleagues needed 6 hours into Munich office. Had I lived near the main Hamburg station I could have done the train trip also in 6 hours. But for the plane would habe added 30 - 45 minutes to the airport. I still would have been faster by plane, but would not have gotten as much work done as with going by train. In the end - for me - convenience won (and I would habe added 60 - 90 minutes to the train ride to get from where I live to the Hamburg main station) and I am glad that Covid hot and everybody learned about video meetings. This massively reduces on-site appearances. But trains and planes can reasonably compete on mid distance connections in central Europe imho. Will be testing using the train for the first time in years because the alternative would be driving 1600 km in 4 days and have a full day workshop within these 4 days. Being driven sounds better to me in that case. Let's wait how I feel after the upcoming week.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sofixa 4y ago
  I spent 1h+ on CDG in November, both going out and in ( from outside of Schengen), for the whole security+ID process. It still happens, depending on the airport and load.

paul_f 4y ago

I took the train from Berlin to Paris in 2018. Was visiting Europe from the US with my son and we did it on a Sunday when nothing was open anyway. No problem with 7 hours on a train. Would have taken at least 5 hours to fly, getting to/from the airports, security, arriving early, etc. Cheaper and more enjoyable to take the train,

eastbound 4y ago
Train is 200% more enjoyable… as long as prices remain high. TGV can be as cheap as 30€ offers for Paris-Lyon in first class, or even “board without fare, annoy people, and yet, get the understanding from the controller”, and that’s where problems start: Obnoxious people on board, theft, harassment… under the lenient eye of the controllers, who still give 450€ fine to grandmas who didn’t annoy anyone. I loved TGV and I became vegetarian for CO2 emissions, but I can’t stand this despicable show of class warfare, and I now take my car for travels up to 1000km.
- ktpsns 4y ago
  Isn't this exactly why first/buisness class is made for? What is your experience with buisness class in TGV? In ICE trains, it makes a difference (i.e. more silence).
  - eastbound 4y ago
    My stories were about first class. The 2 problems are that SNCF has subsidies so that single mothers with 3 babies from different fathers can use the first class; and that agressive people can use it also, without a fare, and controllers only ask for their name (they obviously say “Jean Dupondt” instead “Mouloud Al’Fahir”, and the controller still doesn’t moves much). France thinks everyone deserves to use the first class from time to time.
    - krageon 4y ago
      This is both racist and sexist within two sentences. I've definitely seen a higher density, but not very often. For the casual reader: I have used these trains a number of times and this is definitely not the norm.

herbst 4y ago

I often did 6 hour train trips between Switzerland and Austria and some other routes. I take my laptop some snacks and just enjoy the time.

dzhiurgis 4y ago

> There is no comfier way to travel Have you not been on business class flight?

ForHackernews 4y ago
Still have airport security, that stale recycled airplane air, no dining car, and the crappy little airplane toilet. A nice train is still a better experience IMHO.
- schroeding 4y ago
  That's pretty much it for me too, those things are there regardless of class. Also you have no turbulences in a train, also no safety announcements :D
  - dzhiurgis 4y ago
    FWIW Emirates have a bar and a shower, obvs not on intercity flights tho. Long range flights are so amazing you don’t really wanna leave at all.
- mathverse 4y ago
  It's not about the journey but about how fast you can get from point A to point B.
  - samatman 4y ago
    If that were true, there would be no first class, because paying 3x as much to shave at most 2% of the journey time doesn't add up. Instead, some people who can afford it buy a nicer experience. By extension, people are also willing to add some time to a journey for a nicer experience. Taking the train from Brussels to London is neither cheaper nor faster, but I can't even imagine choosing the plane unless I was desperately skint or it was an emergency where two hours matters (somehow).
- gruez 4y ago

vaughan 4y ago

TGV are much worse than ICE. The TGV double-decker sucks. Tiny overhead storage. Bad leg room. Too hot in summer. And toilets are not well maintained. ICE is a much better train configuration. Although the time I used them weekly a few years back they were incredibly unreliable with huge delays.