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Why would you expect a PR referendum to get a different result to the AV referendum? Every PR supporter I know voted Yes for AV

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Why would you expect Where did you read that I'd expect anything? > Every PR supporter I know voted Yes for AV Lol well we don't need referenda then - we'll just ask what your mates want in the future /s
- ChrisKnott 4y ago
  I was just restating the question in a way that acknowledged your nitpicking response. It's a pretty natural inference from what you said. If you weren't suggesting that the referendums would have different results then I don't see the point of your original response.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    AV and PR are different things. People may have different opinions, even if your particular circle wouldn’t.
    - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
      In any case, there's no referendum needed. If it ends up with a Lab Lib government next time, I expect it to just be legislated for.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > If it ends up with a Lab Lib government next time, I expect it to just be legislated for. Are Labour in favour of changing the voting system? I don't think they are. Why would they be? It doesn't make any sense for them. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/27/unions-vote-down-local-labour-parties-call-to-axe-first-past-the-post https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/27/unions-vote... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/proportional-representation-labour-party-lib-dems https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/propor... And even if members were, the PLP certainly aren't - as they'd lose their jobs.
        blibble 4y ago
        the 1997 labour manifesto had a committment to changing the voting system there was a consultation and its results were quietly buried no reason to expect it would be different next time
        disgruntledphd2 4y ago
        Because of the SNP. Without Scotland, it would be very difficult for them to get a majority with FPTP.
teamonkey 4y ago
AV was confusing. To those who knew what it meant, there were no obvious benefits, so why bother. To those who didn't know, the difference could only be explained by mathematics and unintuitive use cases, and no-one could make a compelling argument about why it was better, so why bother. The argument for PR is far clearer. In the last general election (FPTP), Conservatives got 42% of the vote but won 50% seats; Labour 40% of the vote but 41% of seats; Lib Dem 7% of the vote but 2% of seats; SNP 3% of vote but 5% of seats; etc. THAT intuitively doesn't seem fair or democratic. PR seeks to reflect % of votes with % of elected seats, which does seem intuitively fair and democratic.

chrisseaton 4y ago

> Why would you expect Where did you read that I'd expect anything? > Every PR supporter I know voted Yes for AV Lol well we don't need referenda then - we'll just ask what your mates want in the future /s

ChrisKnott 4y ago
I was just restating the question in a way that acknowledged your nitpicking response. It's a pretty natural inference from what you said. If you weren't suggesting that the referendums would have different results then I don't see the point of your original response.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  AV and PR are different things. People may have different opinions, even if your particular circle wouldn’t.
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    In any case, there's no referendum needed. If it ends up with a Lab Lib government next time, I expect it to just be legislated for.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > If it ends up with a Lab Lib government next time, I expect it to just be legislated for. Are Labour in favour of changing the voting system? I don't think they are. Why would they be? It doesn't make any sense for them. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/27/unions-vote-down-local-labour-parties-call-to-axe-first-past-the-post https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/27/unions-vote... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/proportional-representation-labour-party-lib-dems https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/propor... And even if members were, the PLP certainly aren't - as they'd lose their jobs.
      - blibble 4y ago
        the 1997 labour manifesto had a committment to changing the voting system there was a consultation and its results were quietly buried no reason to expect it would be different next time
      - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
        Because of the SNP. Without Scotland, it would be very difficult for them to get a majority with FPTP.

teamonkey 4y ago

AV was confusing. To those who knew what it meant, there were no obvious benefits, so why bother. To those who didn't know, the difference could only be explained by mathematics and unintuitive use cases, and no-one could make a compelling argument about why it was better, so why bother. The argument for PR is far clearer. In the last general election (FPTP), Conservatives got 42% of the vote but won 50% seats; Labour 40% of the vote but 41% of seats; Lib Dem 7% of the vote but 2% of seats; SNP 3% of vote but 5% of seats; etc. THAT intuitively doesn't seem fair or democratic. PR seeks to reflect % of votes with % of elected seats, which does seem intuitively fair and democratic.