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This is a widespread problem. The inevitable outcome is that university education loses more and more prestige. Maybe this is the way it has to be. Self-taught

This is a widespread problem. The inevitable outcome is that university education loses more and more prestige. Maybe this is the way it has to be. Self-taught people with impressive portfolios start becoming more and more attractive while well-qualified people become less and less attractive - or even suspect.

willcipriano 4y ago
Since a plurality of the population has higher education degrees and since that segment of society enjoys greater respect and privilege, I'd wager that instead those with higher education will use their positions and voting power towards the passage of laws and regulations to keep the self taught out of the workplace. You can see the start of that here sometimes. It is sometimes suggested programmers become like "real engineers" by increasing regulation and requiring a certain level of education. I mean the fact that we are having a serious discussion about forgiving trillions of dollars of debt for this statistically already quite privileged population shows they have to power to pull it off.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  I think there's going to be an element of this, but how pervasive will it be? A plurality of that plurality has a higher education degree from an institution that isn't world famous - including myself. I don't feel at all threatened by self taught people, honestly I was not a great student and consider myself partially self taught anyway.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    How pervasive it is depends on how scare resources are. From my experience as resources get scarce humans group up together by a one or more of the common properties they share. Race, religion, county of origin, urban or rural, sexuality, union or scab, favorite sports team, etc I don't see why educational attainment is any different. The only part that is missing in the software industry is a scarcity of resources and the shift described in the grandparent comment and those behaviors will happen at scale.
UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
This is just partially true. University education has lost a lot of its appeal, that's correct, some sort of tragedy of the commons. But that part of "Self-taught people with impressive portfolios " is hilarious, navel gazing to the max. Nobody would deal with a self-taught cardiologist or structural engineer.
- derangedHorse 4y ago
  Why not? I think a big part of it would be evaluating whether a job candidate has the skills to do the job, not how they attained their knowledge. I'd be fine with my cardiologist testing out of the USMLE steps to get a job.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  I guess we have to draw the distinction between "qualification preferred" and "qualification required". IIRC in many jurisdictions you can sit the exam to become a lawyer without having a degree or anything. The degree more acts as a series of preparation classes for the very very difficult process of passing the bar. In this situation, cheating in mid terms becomes a bit pointless. As long as the final exam is done with strict security (easier for a one off event), the qualification means something. So maybe that's what we want for cardiologists and structural engineers.
  - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
    You still have to work under a licensed lawyer as an apprentice as a requisite for the test.
- MrMan 4y ago
  I respect anyone who does heart surgery on themselves

willcipriano 4y ago

Since a plurality of the population has higher education degrees and since that segment of society enjoys greater respect and privilege, I'd wager that instead those with higher education will use their positions and voting power towards the passage of laws and regulations to keep the self taught out of the workplace. You can see the start of that here sometimes. It is sometimes suggested programmers become like "real engineers" by increasing regulation and requiring a certain level of education. I mean the fact that we are having a serious discussion about forgiving trillions of dollars of debt for this statistically already quite privileged population shows they have to power to pull it off.

LAC-Tech 4y ago
I think there's going to be an element of this, but how pervasive will it be? A plurality of that plurality has a higher education degree from an institution that isn't world famous - including myself. I don't feel at all threatened by self taught people, honestly I was not a great student and consider myself partially self taught anyway.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  How pervasive it is depends on how scare resources are. From my experience as resources get scarce humans group up together by a one or more of the common properties they share. Race, religion, county of origin, urban or rural, sexuality, union or scab, favorite sports team, etc I don't see why educational attainment is any different. The only part that is missing in the software industry is a scarcity of resources and the shift described in the grandparent comment and those behaviors will happen at scale.

UmbertoNoEco 4y ago

This is just partially true. University education has lost a lot of its appeal, that's correct, some sort of tragedy of the commons. But that part of "Self-taught people with impressive portfolios " is hilarious, navel gazing to the max. Nobody would deal with a self-taught cardiologist or structural engineer.

derangedHorse 4y ago
Why not? I think a big part of it would be evaluating whether a job candidate has the skills to do the job, not how they attained their knowledge. I'd be fine with my cardiologist testing out of the USMLE steps to get a job.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
I guess we have to draw the distinction between "qualification preferred" and "qualification required". IIRC in many jurisdictions you can sit the exam to become a lawyer without having a degree or anything. The degree more acts as a series of preparation classes for the very very difficult process of passing the bar. In this situation, cheating in mid terms becomes a bit pointless. As long as the final exam is done with strict security (easier for a one off event), the qualification means something. So maybe that's what we want for cardiologists and structural engineers.
- UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
  You still have to work under a licensed lawyer as an apprentice as a requisite for the test.
MrMan 4y ago
I respect anyone who does heart surgery on themselves