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I worked with Clement between 2017-2019. I invested a significant amount of time getting their mutter fork caught up, and there was a fallout resulting from all

I worked with Clement between 2017-2019. I invested a significant amount of time getting their mutter fork caught up, and there was a fallout resulting from all the work being reverted at the last minute before the next release. I'm still bitter about this, and I think this experience has been traumatic. On their private Slack workspace they harassed me, later banned me from their Github organization, used social media to defame me, and continued to attack me in Github issues for some time afterwards. During this time I also got a job with a reference from Clement praising me, but was later laid off after he wrote a blog post attacking me while being increasingly harassed in private by various Linux Mint team members. I wish I still had that reference email I let him send directly to my previous boss, so people could see how quickly he will turn on people within a three month time period. Needless to say this has spoiled my appetite for being an open source contributor. Maybe I will eventually find a project that interests me, but every time I try to get back into the Linux desktop userland these experiences come back to haunt me. Edit: It seems people want proof, but all I can show is a public figure who has done irreparable damage to the way I look at FOSS.

ogogmad 4y ago
Apologies, but you're going to have to provide evidence for these accusations. The alternative is that anybody can come out of nowhere and call another person awful. I understand this might be difficult.
- bezier-curve 4y ago
  He still left up his attack piece, blatantly lying about a number of events that occurred. I don't think it's worthwhile to defend myself years later, but does this sounds like the tone of a professional? This is one of many poor messages he's been sending about former staff, along with several Github comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/bzbomd/comment/eqsm4ru/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/bzbomd/comment/e... I'm not the first person they have ostracized. I have seen other anonymous post-mortems describing experiences similar to mine from earlier time periods. I did so much work for them, it still feels unreal that someone could be that vindictive. Perhaps this belongs on a Glassdoor equivalent for FOSS projects, but since one doesn't exist and this thread appeared in my feed, I think it's important I'm able to voice my perspective since he tried to assassinate my character.
  - ryanklee 4y ago
    It does sound professional, to be honest. His tone is measured, he explains his position, gives reasons for his choices, and offers a plausible timeline. This particular piece of evidence is not conclusive, but neither is it in your favor.
    - bezier-curve 4y ago
      > neither is it in your favor. That doesn't matter though. The fact he is retaliating in public over a post that only references public information, using private information, is inherently bad faith acting. The context is what makes it unprofessional.
      - historia_novae 4y ago
        It's indeed pretty scummy to dox you in what was a pseudonymous post. Also other posts in this thread seems like victim blaming. Just because someone is famous doesn't make him a good person.
        darkteflon 4y ago
        You have the burden of proof exactly backwards.
      - ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
        Your posts are deleted so there is no way to judge what you said and what response it called for. If a former member starts an AMA to badmouth a project, I'd expect the lead to respond and give the necessary information to defend the project and himself.
  - glorioushubris 4y ago
    He comes off as fully professional and measured in that link. Describing that as character assassination makes you seem like someone nursing a grudge, not someone with a legitimate grievance. And at least he’s left his response up for people to judge for themselves, while you’ve deleted everything you put in that Reddit thread. If lots of other people really agree with your impression of working with Clem, point us at these other, similar opinions you mention. So far this is just “the lurkers support me in email.”
karmakurtisaani 4y ago
This is clearly just your side of the story. What we learn from this is that one of you is a difficult person to work with, but not which one.
- bezier-curve 4y ago
  That is also your side of the story. It's easy for people to defend a product they love. The developer to user ratio for Linux Mint and Cinnamon is very out of balance, and this is a behind the scenes perspective that I don't think people would be able to observe anyway, since most of it happened on a private Slack.
  - karmakurtisaani 4y ago
    Actually I don't use Linux Mint. Just wanted to let you know how people feel about anonymous internet slandering without proof.
    - bezier-curve 4y ago
      See the other response to my root comment, it links to a Reddit thread where you can find out who I really am, as he was using my full name to slander me. This is not anonymous internet slandering.
      - ryanklee 4y ago
        Again, you'll need to offer something else if you wish to credibly defend your claim, because that post is not doing the work you think it is.
        bezier-curve 4y ago
        I think you should allow people to have a space to tell their side. My side of the story is just as credible as his, the only difference is he's more well known, and if that alone is what you think matters most, it shows your bias. That post was made 3 years ago. People change, and it does not invalidate the way I experienced what happened, even if I failed to articulate it effectively at the time. I only shared it to provide proof of the dispute, not to win sides.
bacchusracine 4y ago
As someone who watched Clement's antisemitic breakdown where he demanded that anyone who supported Israel's right to exist cease using LinuxMint I find this story quite believable. Operating on pure emotion he told people they couldn't use an open source Linux distro unless they agreed with his politics in complete violation of the GPL. So, yeah, I'm not surprised at all to read this kind of story about him. Makes me really wish people in FLOSS had better memories about stuff like this, it would make it easier to discern context when revelations like this come out. People who know the history can more easily answer questions like 'does this sound like something that person would do' when they remember past events where they acted out like this.
- fold3 4y ago
  You are talking about aniti-zionism, that is different from antisemitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
- ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
  Having just looked up the "antisemitic breakdown" in question, that seems like a strong editorialization of a viewpoint that was fairly widespread at the time of the events in question.
  - phendrenad2 4y ago
    Yeah I think there's a lesson to be learned there. Something like: Just because everyone is saying something, doesn't mean you won't be held accountable later.
- temptemptemp111 4y ago
- throw_a_grenade 4y ago
  What he did isn't antisemitism, and neither it was arguing against right to exist of State of Israel. It was disagreement with Israeli government, and that's perfectly fine. One might even agree with that criticism given the number of Palestinian women and children killed by Israel at the time. Let me repeat this, because it seems warranted: criticism of Israeli government (its policy and actions) isn't antisemitism, and isn't calling for Israel to cease existence. Mixing those two is especially dangerous, because this would lead to conclusion that periodically killing 1500 unarmed Palestinian civilians is a necessary price to be paid for continuing Israel's existence, and further discussion if this is a price worth paying.

ogogmad 4y ago

Apologies, but you're going to have to provide evidence for these accusations. The alternative is that anybody can come out of nowhere and call another person awful. I understand this might be difficult.

bezier-curve 4y ago
He still left up his attack piece, blatantly lying about a number of events that occurred. I don't think it's worthwhile to defend myself years later, but does this sounds like the tone of a professional? This is one of many poor messages he's been sending about former staff, along with several Github comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/bzbomd/comment/eqsm4ru/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/bzbomd/comment/e... I'm not the first person they have ostracized. I have seen other anonymous post-mortems describing experiences similar to mine from earlier time periods. I did so much work for them, it still feels unreal that someone could be that vindictive. Perhaps this belongs on a Glassdoor equivalent for FOSS projects, but since one doesn't exist and this thread appeared in my feed, I think it's important I'm able to voice my perspective since he tried to assassinate my character.
- ryanklee 4y ago
  It does sound professional, to be honest. His tone is measured, he explains his position, gives reasons for his choices, and offers a plausible timeline. This particular piece of evidence is not conclusive, but neither is it in your favor.
  - bezier-curve 4y ago
    > neither is it in your favor. That doesn't matter though. The fact he is retaliating in public over a post that only references public information, using private information, is inherently bad faith acting. The context is what makes it unprofessional.
    - historia_novae 4y ago
      It's indeed pretty scummy to dox you in what was a pseudonymous post. Also other posts in this thread seems like victim blaming. Just because someone is famous doesn't make him a good person.
      - darkteflon 4y ago
        You have the burden of proof exactly backwards.
    - ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
      Your posts are deleted so there is no way to judge what you said and what response it called for. If a former member starts an AMA to badmouth a project, I'd expect the lead to respond and give the necessary information to defend the project and himself.
- glorioushubris 4y ago
  He comes off as fully professional and measured in that link. Describing that as character assassination makes you seem like someone nursing a grudge, not someone with a legitimate grievance. And at least he’s left his response up for people to judge for themselves, while you’ve deleted everything you put in that Reddit thread. If lots of other people really agree with your impression of working with Clem, point us at these other, similar opinions you mention. So far this is just “the lurkers support me in email.”

karmakurtisaani 4y ago

This is clearly just your side of the story. What we learn from this is that one of you is a difficult person to work with, but not which one.

bezier-curve 4y ago
That is also your side of the story. It's easy for people to defend a product they love. The developer to user ratio for Linux Mint and Cinnamon is very out of balance, and this is a behind the scenes perspective that I don't think people would be able to observe anyway, since most of it happened on a private Slack.
- karmakurtisaani 4y ago
  Actually I don't use Linux Mint. Just wanted to let you know how people feel about anonymous internet slandering without proof.
  - bezier-curve 4y ago
    See the other response to my root comment, it links to a Reddit thread where you can find out who I really am, as he was using my full name to slander me. This is not anonymous internet slandering.
    - ryanklee 4y ago
      Again, you'll need to offer something else if you wish to credibly defend your claim, because that post is not doing the work you think it is.
      - bezier-curve 4y ago
        I think you should allow people to have a space to tell their side. My side of the story is just as credible as his, the only difference is he's more well known, and if that alone is what you think matters most, it shows your bias. That post was made 3 years ago. People change, and it does not invalidate the way I experienced what happened, even if I failed to articulate it effectively at the time. I only shared it to provide proof of the dispute, not to win sides.

bacchusracine 4y ago

As someone who watched Clement's antisemitic breakdown where he demanded that anyone who supported Israel's right to exist cease using LinuxMint I find this story quite believable. Operating on pure emotion he told people they couldn't use an open source Linux distro unless they agreed with his politics in complete violation of the GPL. So, yeah, I'm not surprised at all to read this kind of story about him. Makes me really wish people in FLOSS had better memories about stuff like this, it would make it easier to discern context when revelations like this come out. People who know the history can more easily answer questions like 'does this sound like something that person would do' when they remember past events where they acted out like this.

fold3 4y ago
You are talking about aniti-zionism, that is different from antisemitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
Having just looked up the "antisemitic breakdown" in question, that seems like a strong editorialization of a viewpoint that was fairly widespread at the time of the events in question.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  Yeah I think there's a lesson to be learned there. Something like: Just because everyone is saying something, doesn't mean you won't be held accountable later.
temptemptemp111 4y ago
throw_a_grenade 4y ago
What he did isn't antisemitism, and neither it was arguing against right to exist of State of Israel. It was disagreement with Israeli government, and that's perfectly fine. One might even agree with that criticism given the number of Palestinian women and children killed by Israel at the time. Let me repeat this, because it seems warranted: criticism of Israeli government (its policy and actions) isn't antisemitism, and isn't calling for Israel to cease existence. Mixing those two is especially dangerous, because this would lead to conclusion that periodically killing 1500 unarmed Palestinian civilians is a necessary price to be paid for continuing Israel's existence, and further discussion if this is a price worth paying.