6 ms·

The real story of Pinocchio

56 points by Digit-Al 4y ago

layer8 4y ago
I would have liked to see a discussion of the 1976 Japanese anime version.
flashfaffe2 4y ago
Without the arrogance to provide an expert view of the book, but it seems that the author did follow up the path of Victor Hugo and Charles Dickens to describe the dark side of Italian society at that time. I would definitely consider drilling down and understand the part of the Italian story
drekipus 4y ago
Pretty cool, I didn't know it was a series in Italy. From what they said in the article it doesn't seem too far from the Disney version. (Any more than the expected, condensed, Disney way). Jordan Peterson actually really opened up the Disney story of Pinocchio for me, all of it is really quite apt. I could imagine the original is quite amazing. https://youtu.be/Us979jCjHu8 https://youtu.be/Us979jCjHu8
- aasasd 4y ago
  Reader beware: watching one clip of Jordan Peterson will infect your Youtube recommendations with ‘woke’ videos for teens, and they will sit there for years to come.
  - Stevvo 4y ago
    Yeah, there is something going on there with the recommendations for controversial figures like Jordan. I just watched some of the lectures, the 3 to 4 hour ones on Pinocchio and the Bible. Now my recommendations are infected with "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS feminists"
    - aasasd 4y ago
      My condolences. I'm pretty sure it may now take YouTube a full year to learn that you're not gonna watch that. Might be easier to remove the lectures from the ‘watch history’ and then methodically mark these recommendations as not interesting to you. Of course, idk if that doesn't also catch some properly good content by association.
      - engineer_22 4y ago
        I do wish YouTube's recommendations would open up a wider spectrum sometimes. It seems to get stuck on a half dozen topics on my Android TV
    - engineer_22 4y ago
      They mostly go away, eventually.
      - Stevvo 4y ago
        I think watch time is big part of the formula; because they are long lectures it takes a lot of shorter videos to override their weight.
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    as someone from "before the Internet" I find this tiny (real) anecdote about watching a single YouTube video "ruining recommendations" very powerful in all the wrong ways
    - pvg 4y ago
      The reality is it's at most a minor inconvenience since these days youtube's recommendations can be controlled by telling youtube you don't want something recommended. You can depeterson yourself fairly easily if afflicted.
      - aasasd 4y ago
        The thing is, I'm never sure that YouTube learns that I don't want Peterson, and not that I'm allergic to e.g. feminism.
        pvg 4y ago
        Yeah that's fair. My youtube usage is relatively narrow in topics so it's probably a little easier to deal with the blast radius.
        Stevvo 4y ago
        I'm allergic to both sides of the culture war, but the algorithms seem to want me to be invested in someone's narrative on it.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    Jordan Peterson is anything but "woke"
- II2II 4y ago
  > Pretty cool, I didn't know it was a series in Italy. From what they said in the article it doesn't seem too far from the Disney version. (Any more than the expected, condensed, Disney way). I watched the Disney adaptation about a year ago and it sounds like it hit upon the most of the points of the original, though some of them were only in passing. It certainly wasn't just about a lying boy, as I originally thought it to be. What did strike me was how grim the adaptation was. I don't know if I would show it to a child these days, and I know a great many children who would be scared witless by it.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
Not wanting to sound dismissal, but as Italian the real story of Pinocchio is the original story of Collodi's Pinocchio, that we are told and we read since we are little kids. We have old sayings like "the land of toys (il paese dei balocchi) does not exists' or "if you do not study you'll end up like Pinocchio and Lucifer transformed into a donkey" that are directly taken from the book. Also, a very popular adaptation of Pinocchio made for television [1], directed by one of the greatest Italian directors of the renown Italian comedy genre of the time and which is probably the most popular adaptation here in Italy, surely the most accurate, is very blatant about the need for education. p.s. the tv show musical theme was popularized in the 90s by a dance remix [2] that was then remixed in all sort of styles, including techno and gaber When my father was very young he was friend with Nino Manfredi, who plays Geppetto. they were born in two houses two kms apart from each other. [1] https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_avventure_di_Pinocchio_(miniserie_televisiva) https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_avventure_di_Pinocchio_(m... [2] https://youtu.be/97IYO-P1V18 https://youtu.be/97IYO-P1V18
- pvg 4y ago
  You're gonna love this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buratino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buratino
  - aasasd 4y ago
    Aleksey Tolstoy not only localized the story quite freely, but sneaked in jabs at other contemporary authors and poets.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  Not wanting to sound dismissal, but as Italian the real story of Pinocchio is the original story of Collodi's Pinocchio did you read the article? it talks about Collodi in the first sentence, says there is a new English translation... just not sure what version you might be sounding dismissive about
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
davidw 4y ago
John Hooper is also the Italian correspondent for The Economist. Now I feel a bit nostalgic for life in Italy after reading that. So many beautiful places, and a lot of very interesting people.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cududa 4y ago
Getting and endless loop of Cloudflare - never seen that
- tetris11 4y ago
  Bromite?
HellDunkel 4y ago
I read fairy tales to my kids a lot from older books. They can be so brutal that i feel the need to skip or modify words while reading. The disney movie pinoccio is grim and the book was even grimmer. But the disney one is also a true piece of art much in the sense of the original as it speaks to the children directly.
wodenokoto 4y ago
Recently an article on Bambi and how different the Disney version is hit the front page. And now this, makes me wonder who the audience of early Disney movies was. Sure they’ve watered down both Bambi and Pinocchio, but they couldn’t have had young children in mind when they decided to adapt such stories.
sitkack 4y ago
Love this Jon Solo report on Pinocchio, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGtweb0OS5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGtweb0OS5g

56 points by Digit-Al 4y ago

I would have liked to see a discussion of the 1976 Japanese anime version.

Without the arrogance to provide an expert view of the book, but it seems that the author did follow up the path of Victor Hugo and Charles Dickens to describe the dark side of Italian society at that time. I would definitely consider drilling down and understand the part of the Italian story

drekipus 4y ago

Pretty cool, I didn't know it was a series in Italy. From what they said in the article it doesn't seem too far from the Disney version. (Any more than the expected, condensed, Disney way). Jordan Peterson actually really opened up the Disney story of Pinocchio for me, all of it is really quite apt. I could imagine the original is quite amazing. https://youtu.be/Us979jCjHu8 https://youtu.be/Us979jCjHu8

aasasd 4y ago
Reader beware: watching one clip of Jordan Peterson will infect your Youtube recommendations with ‘woke’ videos for teens, and they will sit there for years to come.
- Stevvo 4y ago
  Yeah, there is something going on there with the recommendations for controversial figures like Jordan. I just watched some of the lectures, the 3 to 4 hour ones on Pinocchio and the Bible. Now my recommendations are infected with "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS feminists"
  - aasasd 4y ago
    My condolences. I'm pretty sure it may now take YouTube a full year to learn that you're not gonna watch that. Might be easier to remove the lectures from the ‘watch history’ and then methodically mark these recommendations as not interesting to you. Of course, idk if that doesn't also catch some properly good content by association.
    - engineer_22 4y ago
      I do wish YouTube's recommendations would open up a wider spectrum sometimes. It seems to get stuck on a half dozen topics on my Android TV
  - engineer_22 4y ago
    They mostly go away, eventually.
    - Stevvo 4y ago
      I think watch time is big part of the formula; because they are long lectures it takes a lot of shorter videos to override their weight.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  as someone from "before the Internet" I find this tiny (real) anecdote about watching a single YouTube video "ruining recommendations" very powerful in all the wrong ways
  - pvg 4y ago
    The reality is it's at most a minor inconvenience since these days youtube's recommendations can be controlled by telling youtube you don't want something recommended. You can depeterson yourself fairly easily if afflicted.
    - aasasd 4y ago
      The thing is, I'm never sure that YouTube learns that I don't want Peterson, and not that I'm allergic to e.g. feminism.
      - pvg 4y ago
        Yeah that's fair. My youtube usage is relatively narrow in topics so it's probably a little easier to deal with the blast radius.
      - Stevvo 4y ago
        I'm allergic to both sides of the culture war, but the algorithms seem to want me to be invested in someone's narrative on it.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  Jordan Peterson is anything but "woke"
II2II 4y ago
> Pretty cool, I didn't know it was a series in Italy. From what they said in the article it doesn't seem too far from the Disney version. (Any more than the expected, condensed, Disney way). I watched the Disney adaptation about a year ago and it sounds like it hit upon the most of the points of the original, though some of them were only in passing. It certainly wasn't just about a lying boy, as I originally thought it to be. What did strike me was how grim the adaptation was. I don't know if I would show it to a child these days, and I know a great many children who would be scared witless by it.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

Not wanting to sound dismissal, but as Italian the real story of Pinocchio is the original story of Collodi's Pinocchio, that we are told and we read since we are little kids. We have old sayings like "the land of toys (il paese dei balocchi) does not exists' or "if you do not study you'll end up like Pinocchio and Lucifer transformed into a donkey" that are directly taken from the book. Also, a very popular adaptation of Pinocchio made for television [1], directed by one of the greatest Italian directors of the renown Italian comedy genre of the time and which is probably the most popular adaptation here in Italy, surely the most accurate, is very blatant about the need for education. p.s. the tv show musical theme was popularized in the 90s by a dance remix [2] that was then remixed in all sort of styles, including techno and gaber When my father was very young he was friend with Nino Manfredi, who plays Geppetto. they were born in two houses two kms apart from each other. [1] https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_avventure_di_Pinocchio_(miniserie_televisiva) https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_avventure_di_Pinocchio_(m... [2] https://youtu.be/97IYO-P1V18 https://youtu.be/97IYO-P1V18

pvg 4y ago
You're gonna love this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buratino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buratino
- aasasd 4y ago
  Aleksey Tolstoy not only localized the story quite freely, but sneaked in jabs at other contemporary authors and poets.
fsckboy 4y ago
Not wanting to sound dismissal, but as Italian the real story of Pinocchio is the original story of Collodi's Pinocchio did you read the article? it talks about Collodi in the first sentence, says there is a new English translation... just not sure what version you might be sounding dismissive about
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago

davidw 4y ago

John Hooper is also the Italian correspondent for The Economist. Now I feel a bit nostalgic for life in Italy after reading that. So many beautiful places, and a lot of very interesting people.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cududa 4y ago

Getting and endless loop of Cloudflare - never seen that

tetris11 4y ago
Bromite?

HellDunkel 4y ago

I read fairy tales to my kids a lot from older books. They can be so brutal that i feel the need to skip or modify words while reading. The disney movie pinoccio is grim and the book was even grimmer. But the disney one is also a true piece of art much in the sense of the original as it speaks to the children directly.

wodenokoto 4y ago

Recently an article on Bambi and how different the Disney version is hit the front page. And now this, makes me wonder who the audience of early Disney movies was. Sure they’ve watered down both Bambi and Pinocchio, but they couldn’t have had young children in mind when they decided to adapt such stories.

sitkack 4y ago

Love this Jon Solo report on Pinocchio, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGtweb0OS5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGtweb0OS5g