5 ms·

does the airplane still have the avionics? how you can just leave millions of dollars worth of tech behind

by ushakov 4y ago

robbiep 4y ago
From what I understand (admittedly little) the engines are the most valuable part of a eol airliner
- dehrmann 4y ago
  Wouldn't surprise me. The lifespan of an airframe is far longer than that of an engine, and they're designed to be swapped out. They can even be transported under-wing: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/how-qantas-ferried-an-engine-on-the-wing-of-a-747/ https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/how-qantas-ferried-an-eng...
- notahacker 4y ago
  The engine is basically a collection of life limited parts, so the range of value in the engines depends hugely on how many engine hours flown since the engine was last rebuilt. They can be worth a few million dollars removed from an aircraft that's otherwise unsaleable (to swap onto the remaining aircraft still in service) or of negligble value themselves.
dehrmann 4y ago
Assuming they weren't upgraded, the plane was 30+ years old when it was decommissioned. Normally, I'd say the market for equipment that old is third-world countries, and the old planes need old parts, but the 747 is a big plane. The other buyers of old airplanes are companies like UPS and DHL, but I'm not sure they want them that old, and they'd probably upgrade the avionics.
nickelpro 4y ago
The maintenance cost associated with end-of-life commercial flight equipment quickly outpaces the cost of buying a new platform. Without maintenance, the avionics (and everything else on the plane) is barely worth its weight in scrap metal (because even scrapping is expensive).
- xattt 4y ago
  Toronto faced a similar issue of antiquated electronics with its last set of retired street cars which used (1970s) state-of-the-art silicon-controlled rectifiers for propulsion. However, replacement parts stopped being made into the 1990s and 2000s. In the last days of operation, some units were cannibilized to get other broken down units going as replacement electronics were simply not available and could not be jerry-rigged from other off-the-shelf parts. (1) https://stevemunro.ca/2018/06/07/will-toronto-get-more-new-streetcars/ https://stevemunro.ca/2018/06/07/will-toronto-get-more-new-s...
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    The Hague purchased old trams from Marseille for parts, as they had this exact problem with the old (red) GTL-8 trams. [1] Some GTL-8s are actually still in service to this day, though they're being replaced by new Siemens Avenios as time goes on. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelede_Tram_Lang https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelede_Tram_Lang
    - amelius 4y ago
      Do most cities design and build their own buses and trams?
      - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
        At least with rail vehicles (trams, metros and trains), I think custom designs used to be more common in the past. Perhaps the consolidation of all sorts of independent rolling stock manufacturers into Alstom has played a part in making it less common these days.
      - xattt 4y ago
        In the face of the mid-century GM streetcar conspiracy in North America, there were very few options for off-the-shelf streetcars. Toronto ended up working with a provincial agency (UTDC) to develop a design that would meet contemporary needs. It was really a world-class effort: the prototypes were built in Switzerland, adjusted for Toronto track gauge and marketed to Boston (who ended up going with a Boeing design). In a very oversimplified explanation, most major rail manufacturers now offer something that’s like a kit: cities pick length, types of operation (street running or separate grade), front-end and back-end design and that’s it.

does the airplane still have the avionics? how you can just leave millions of dollars worth of tech behind

robbiep 4y ago

From what I understand (admittedly little) the engines are the most valuable part of a eol airliner

dehrmann 4y ago
Wouldn't surprise me. The lifespan of an airframe is far longer than that of an engine, and they're designed to be swapped out. They can even be transported under-wing: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/how-qantas-ferried-an-engine-on-the-wing-of-a-747/ https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/how-qantas-ferried-an-eng...
notahacker 4y ago
The engine is basically a collection of life limited parts, so the range of value in the engines depends hugely on how many engine hours flown since the engine was last rebuilt. They can be worth a few million dollars removed from an aircraft that's otherwise unsaleable (to swap onto the remaining aircraft still in service) or of negligble value themselves.

dehrmann 4y ago

Assuming they weren't upgraded, the plane was 30+ years old when it was decommissioned. Normally, I'd say the market for equipment that old is third-world countries, and the old planes need old parts, but the 747 is a big plane. The other buyers of old airplanes are companies like UPS and DHL, but I'm not sure they want them that old, and they'd probably upgrade the avionics.

nickelpro 4y ago

The maintenance cost associated with end-of-life commercial flight equipment quickly outpaces the cost of buying a new platform. Without maintenance, the avionics (and everything else on the plane) is barely worth its weight in scrap metal (because even scrapping is expensive).

xattt 4y ago
Toronto faced a similar issue of antiquated electronics with its last set of retired street cars which used (1970s) state-of-the-art silicon-controlled rectifiers for propulsion. However, replacement parts stopped being made into the 1990s and 2000s. In the last days of operation, some units were cannibilized to get other broken down units going as replacement electronics were simply not available and could not be jerry-rigged from other off-the-shelf parts. (1) https://stevemunro.ca/2018/06/07/will-toronto-get-more-new-streetcars/ https://stevemunro.ca/2018/06/07/will-toronto-get-more-new-s...
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  The Hague purchased old trams from Marseille for parts, as they had this exact problem with the old (red) GTL-8 trams. [1] Some GTL-8s are actually still in service to this day, though they're being replaced by new Siemens Avenios as time goes on. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelede_Tram_Lang https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelede_Tram_Lang
  - amelius 4y ago
    Do most cities design and build their own buses and trams?
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      At least with rail vehicles (trams, metros and trains), I think custom designs used to be more common in the past. Perhaps the consolidation of all sorts of independent rolling stock manufacturers into Alstom has played a part in making it less common these days.
    - xattt 4y ago
      In the face of the mid-century GM streetcar conspiracy in North America, there were very few options for off-the-shelf streetcars. Toronto ended up working with a provincial agency (UTDC) to develop a design that would meet contemporary needs. It was really a world-class effort: the prototypes were built in Switzerland, adjusted for Toronto track gauge and marketed to Boston (who ended up going with a Boeing design). In a very oversimplified explanation, most major rail manufacturers now offer something that’s like a kit: cities pick length, types of operation (street running or separate grade), front-end and back-end design and that’s it.