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> their service is valued at $200-$300 What service? > Pay $200ish over MSRP and all the headache of locating and securing one goes away. They create the hea

> their service is valued at $200-$300 What service? > Pay $200ish over MSRP and all the headache of locating and securing one goes away. They create the headache in the first place. Do you also think a protection racket provides a service? If you pay them for protection, all the headache of your business being firebombed goes away!

michaelt 4y ago
> What service? Imagine if, to get the latest gadget you had to queue outside a store for 30 hours - but you could hire someone to queue for you. Theoretically one could argue the scalpers are queuing so you don’t have to.
recursive 4y ago
The service is making them available. You have to pay a premium for this service. If it wasn't for scalpers, then you (probably) just wouldn't get one, unless you're waiting in line for the store to open.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- teakettle42 4y ago
  Using bots to monopolize the supply and maximize their own profits is rent-seeking by an economic leech, not a service.
  - recursive 4y ago
    Supposedly, all rational agents in a capitalist system try to maximize their own profits. If consoles were priced correctly, they wouldn't be able to make any profit by doing this. They'd just have a warehouse full of new consoles and not enough buyers. The fact that it's even profitable means they'll continue to do it. I think there are really only two possible solutions to this from the supplier side. 1. Increase production. 2. Increase MSRP. Trying to regulate away this problem will just lead to more "innovative" scalpers.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - sorry_outta_gas 4y ago
      If if the ps5 went to $650 or $700 without tax it would entirely kill sony's gaming business if anything microsoft's plan of offering two sku's lowering the price has been more effective
      - recursive 4y ago
        > If if the ps5 went to $650 or $700 without tax it would entirely kill sony's gaming business How's that? If that's what people are already actually buying them for, then people can already afford them.
      - colinmhayes 4y ago
        That's what people are paying though. They can always lower prices when they stop selling out.
    - staticman2 4y ago
      "Supposedly, all rational agents in a capitalist system try to maximize their own profits." Supposedly, the world is more complicated than some stuff you picked up from Econ 101.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dragontamer 4y ago
Apple fixes the problem by just raising MSRP by $200, automating the scalping and allowing Apple to capture all of that price difference.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Apple also makes sure to have various models at various price points. Nobody will spend $1200 for a $900 iPhone if there’s a $1200 version that has more space is in stock.
anonymousab 4y ago
> They create the headache in the first place Only if the console wouldn't completely sell out every time without the scalper. But it would. So the scalper provides a service to consumers with more money by allowing them to avoid the hassle of competing with lower classes for popular goods.
colinmhayes 4y ago
> They create the headache in the first place. I don't think this is true. The fact that scalpers are still buying consoles means they're still selling them. That means if the scalpers didn't exist consoles would still be sold out, it would just be individuals following twitter accounts to spam refresh for a single console instead of 10.
seabird 4y ago
>What service? Keeping you from having to constantly try and ram through the checkout on a moments notice and still not get the product in the vast majority of attempts. >They create the headache in the first place. They would be completely sold out even without the scalpers. The scalpers are selling them to somebody -- that somebody would have just bought at MSRP and you would still have to do what I mentioned above. >Do you also think a protection racket provides a service? If you pay them for protection, all the headache of your business being firebombed goes away! This is a pretty ridiculous characterization, even if you don't like what scalpers do. You are not being forced to buy a PS5. You're not even being forced to buy a PS5 from them. You can pull up a restock stream and watch it like a hawk if you have the time. They're not engaging in violence against you because you didn't buy a PS5 from them.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  Scalpers abuse the social contract — and abuse access to retailer storefronts — to force themselves in-between the vendor and their customers. They’re rent-seeking leeches that exacerbate supply issues. They’re not providing a service; they’re interfering with our ability to engage in free exchange with retailers and manufacturers, and doing so through deceptive, dishonest, and immoral practices.
  - sio8ohPi 4y ago
    "They're interfering with our... free exchange with retailers", you say, while literally complaining about someone else's free exchange with retailers.
    - teakettle42 4y ago
      The retailers in this context don’t want their business.
  - seabird 4y ago
    They're not forcing you to do anything at all. It's not even close, and I can float a guess that you haven't actually tried to buy a PS5 or any item like it at MSRP because you wouldn't seriously believe what you're saying if you did. I guarantee you that if you have time to burn and subscribe to one of the myriad sources of restock updates, you can get a PS5 at MSRP. I know multiple people who have done it. Just because it's possible doesn't mean that it isn't a pain in the ass. It's so annoying, people pay $200 to not have to do it. If the scalpers didn't exist, it would still be just as much of a pain in the ass, because the scalpers definitionally need somebody to buy everything that they do. The demand isn't erased just because they don't exist. You're going on about how scalpers are abusive, deceptive, dishonest, immoral, rent-seeking leeches and are refusing to engage with the reality that their existence doesn't change anything other than giving you the option to pay $200 and skip the bullshit. I'm not asking you to like them, I'm just telling you that not much would be different if they were gone.

michaelt 4y ago

> What service? Imagine if, to get the latest gadget you had to queue outside a store for 30 hours - but you could hire someone to queue for you. Theoretically one could argue the scalpers are queuing so you don’t have to.

recursive 4y ago

The service is making them available. You have to pay a premium for this service. If it wasn't for scalpers, then you (probably) just wouldn't get one, unless you're waiting in line for the store to open.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
teakettle42 4y ago
Using bots to monopolize the supply and maximize their own profits is rent-seeking by an economic leech, not a service.
- recursive 4y ago
  Supposedly, all rational agents in a capitalist system try to maximize their own profits. If consoles were priced correctly, they wouldn't be able to make any profit by doing this. They'd just have a warehouse full of new consoles and not enough buyers. The fact that it's even profitable means they'll continue to do it. I think there are really only two possible solutions to this from the supplier side. 1. Increase production. 2. Increase MSRP. Trying to regulate away this problem will just lead to more "innovative" scalpers.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - sorry_outta_gas 4y ago
    If if the ps5 went to $650 or $700 without tax it would entirely kill sony's gaming business if anything microsoft's plan of offering two sku's lowering the price has been more effective
    - recursive 4y ago
      > If if the ps5 went to $650 or $700 without tax it would entirely kill sony's gaming business How's that? If that's what people are already actually buying them for, then people can already afford them.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      That's what people are paying though. They can always lower prices when they stop selling out.
  - staticman2 4y ago
    "Supposedly, all rational agents in a capitalist system try to maximize their own profits." Supposedly, the world is more complicated than some stuff you picked up from Econ 101.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dragontamer 4y ago

Apple fixes the problem by just raising MSRP by $200, automating the scalping and allowing Apple to capture all of that price difference.

bombcar 4y ago
Apple also makes sure to have various models at various price points. Nobody will spend $1200 for a $900 iPhone if there’s a $1200 version that has more space is in stock.

anonymousab 4y ago

> They create the headache in the first place Only if the console wouldn't completely sell out every time without the scalper. But it would. So the scalper provides a service to consumers with more money by allowing them to avoid the hassle of competing with lower classes for popular goods.

colinmhayes 4y ago

> They create the headache in the first place. I don't think this is true. The fact that scalpers are still buying consoles means they're still selling them. That means if the scalpers didn't exist consoles would still be sold out, it would just be individuals following twitter accounts to spam refresh for a single console instead of 10.

seabird 4y ago

>What service? Keeping you from having to constantly try and ram through the checkout on a moments notice and still not get the product in the vast majority of attempts. >They create the headache in the first place. They would be completely sold out even without the scalpers. The scalpers are selling them to somebody -- that somebody would have just bought at MSRP and you would still have to do what I mentioned above. >Do you also think a protection racket provides a service? If you pay them for protection, all the headache of your business being firebombed goes away! This is a pretty ridiculous characterization, even if you don't like what scalpers do. You are not being forced to buy a PS5. You're not even being forced to buy a PS5 from them. You can pull up a restock stream and watch it like a hawk if you have the time. They're not engaging in violence against you because you didn't buy a PS5 from them.

teakettle42 4y ago
Scalpers abuse the social contract — and abuse access to retailer storefronts — to force themselves in-between the vendor and their customers. They’re rent-seeking leeches that exacerbate supply issues. They’re not providing a service; they’re interfering with our ability to engage in free exchange with retailers and manufacturers, and doing so through deceptive, dishonest, and immoral practices.
- sio8ohPi 4y ago
  "They're interfering with our... free exchange with retailers", you say, while literally complaining about someone else's free exchange with retailers.
  - teakettle42 4y ago
    The retailers in this context don’t want their business.
- seabird 4y ago
  They're not forcing you to do anything at all. It's not even close, and I can float a guess that you haven't actually tried to buy a PS5 or any item like it at MSRP because you wouldn't seriously believe what you're saying if you did. I guarantee you that if you have time to burn and subscribe to one of the myriad sources of restock updates, you can get a PS5 at MSRP. I know multiple people who have done it. Just because it's possible doesn't mean that it isn't a pain in the ass. It's so annoying, people pay $200 to not have to do it. If the scalpers didn't exist, it would still be just as much of a pain in the ass, because the scalpers definitionally need somebody to buy everything that they do. The demand isn't erased just because they don't exist. You're going on about how scalpers are abusive, deceptive, dishonest, immoral, rent-seeking leeches and are refusing to engage with the reality that their existence doesn't change anything other than giving you the option to pay $200 and skip the bullshit. I'm not asking you to like them, I'm just telling you that not much would be different if they were gone.