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It only makes sense because you understand the decisions behind it. Try teaching JS to someone with little experience — they don’t care that the browser wants o

It only makes sense because you understand the decisions behind it. Try teaching JS to someone with little experience — they don’t care that the browser wants one kind of module and Node wants another. They don’t know what a module is, they just want their code to run

goldenkey 4y ago
The article is making the whole thing sound arcane and unreasonable when the distinction between package managers and runtimes has been the case for decades. Expecting package.json (a package manager file) to alter the behavior of node (the executable runtime) shows a lack of even first principle knowledge of computer languages, runtimes, or package managers. I don't feel bad in the slightest, because math feels like shit too when you first get into it. But the reasons are mostly sound, so complaints are mostly just whining.
- chii 4y ago
  > shows a lack of even first principle knowledge of computer languages, runtimes, or package managers. it's more that the author has the expectation that a computer scientist (well versed in computer science) should be able to immediately discern the intricacies of software construction and engineering. The complexities of a software system is distinct and different from that of computer science. It's like saying that a physicist would be able to do the job of a construction civil engineer, because they know the physical theories of forces.
chii 4y ago
> Try teaching JS to someone with little experience which is why js is not a good language to start teaching someone without experience in another language (including the ecosystem). To learn js, it is necessary to learn about the module system that evolved from the browser (and the hacks made in the past, prior to having a module system). Then you must learn that node.js and npm, and optionally, webpack and/or other packing tools. It's very convoluted, and unnecessarily complex. However, this complexity isn't entirely one entity's fault. I think you'd find similar complexity in java, in the early years, around the dependency management ecosystem, before the advent of maven 2. Of course, you can just skip all of that, and go with the old C/C++ model, which is just copy/paste the code into a file in your project. For someone looking to test out some code they randomly found, this is probably the most recommended route imho.
- deleted 4y ago
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goldenkey 4y ago
Sure, but at the same time, they shouldn't expect to just jump over an understanding of what the command `node` is versus `npm.` Previous experience or just a basic understanding of what the commands read, touch, and do, would have avoided most of their confusion.
deleted 4y ago
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goldenkey 4y ago

The article is making the whole thing sound arcane and unreasonable when the distinction between package managers and runtimes has been the case for decades. Expecting package.json (a package manager file) to alter the behavior of node (the executable runtime) shows a lack of even first principle knowledge of computer languages, runtimes, or package managers. I don't feel bad in the slightest, because math feels like shit too when you first get into it. But the reasons are mostly sound, so complaints are mostly just whining.

chii 4y ago
> shows a lack of even first principle knowledge of computer languages, runtimes, or package managers. it's more that the author has the expectation that a computer scientist (well versed in computer science) should be able to immediately discern the intricacies of software construction and engineering. The complexities of a software system is distinct and different from that of computer science. It's like saying that a physicist would be able to do the job of a construction civil engineer, because they know the physical theories of forces.

chii 4y ago

> Try teaching JS to someone with little experience which is why js is not a good language to start teaching someone without experience in another language (including the ecosystem). To learn js, it is necessary to learn about the module system that evolved from the browser (and the hacks made in the past, prior to having a module system). Then you must learn that node.js and npm, and optionally, webpack and/or other packing tools. It's very convoluted, and unnecessarily complex. However, this complexity isn't entirely one entity's fault. I think you'd find similar complexity in java, in the early years, around the dependency management ecosystem, before the advent of maven 2. Of course, you can just skip all of that, and go with the old C/C++ model, which is just copy/paste the code into a file in your project. For someone looking to test out some code they randomly found, this is probably the most recommended route imho.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

goldenkey 4y ago

Sure, but at the same time, they shouldn't expect to just jump over an understanding of what the command `node` is versus `npm.` Previous experience or just a basic understanding of what the commands read, touch, and do, would have avoided most of their confusion.

deleted 4y ago

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