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To add to this. I believe the copper and coax infrastructure was subsidized by the gov't and so regulations were created to require granting independent ISPs wh

by xzez 4y ago

To add to this. I believe the copper and coax infrastructure was subsidized by the gov't and so regulations were created to require granting independent ISPs wholesale access to the (last-mile) infra. AFAIK there are no similar regulations for the fibre networks as those were not subsidized. The telecoms which own this infra have been lobbying hard to erode those regulations, and, they've been rather sucessful because the CRTC - the telecom regulatory body - has been composed largely of ex-executives of said telecoms. Oh and if you think the internet situation is bad up here in Canada, then wait 'till you hear about our mobile phone rates.

dmt0 4y ago
Oh look! This year Canada slides again on the Corruption Perception Index! https://transparencycanada.ca/news/canada-slides-again-on-corruption-perceptions-index https://transparencycanada.ca/news/canada-slides-again-on-co...
donmcronald 4y ago
> I believe the copper and coax infrastructure was subsidized by the gov't and so regulations were created to require granting independent ISPs wholesale access to the (last-mile) infra. AFAIK there are no similar regulations for the fibre networks as those were not subsidized. That’s why they cut out the copper when they light up the fiber.
- dleslie 4y ago
  The crtc ruled that wholesale rules shouldn't apply to fiber, so prices are even worse. Apparently Canadians don't need fast internet.
Teever 4y ago
> AFAIK there are no similar regulations for the fibre networks as those were not subsidized. Which irks me because these companies were able to build out these fibre networks because of the advantage that they received from being practically gifted publicly owned utilities.
- donmcronald 4y ago
  They also charge the government insane rates which is it’s own kind of hidden subsidy.
- lebuffon 4y ago
  And here we thought Russia was the only place that this kind of thing happened. Who knew? ;-)
jamal-kumar 4y ago
You know how dumb I find this situation? I fucking left and haven't had a cell phone plan in Canada for like a decade. My bill on TWO FOREIGN PHONES even roaming WITHIN CANADA is cheaper than maintaining a stupid Bell Rogers or Telus plan internationally. The major sense I get from Canadians whenever I arrive back is an enormous sense of financial illiteracy. Like they just don't know or care about how badly they get ripped off all the time on so many things and will never care enough to do anything meaningful about it.
- jagger27 4y ago
  Financial illiteracy is a little fucking harsh, no? We know we’re getting absolutely shafted.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    Then why aren't you doing anything about it? Why is the contrast between Canada and the rest of the world palpably stark? Why do banks get away with disgusting loopholes like getting around laws by calling themselves "financial advisers" rather than advisOrs? A little harsh? Do something about it enough that I might consider returning
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      Oh please lost child return to us. We're begging you to come back. Gimme a break. We are a country with 1/10th the population of the US -- the largest economy in the world and an aggressive military power -- and we're sitting right next to it, for most of our history barely holding onto an independent existence. Most of our "successful" industries consist of "ripping and shipping" raw commodities to service that market. It should not surprise you why things are the way they are. It's gross how these domestic industries end up this way, captured by a cabal of self-serving corporate dickheads, but TBH on the whole the alternative would be raw subservience to US corporations who would steamroll our entire economy. There is no easy answer, or it would have been done already.
      - 4y ago
VBprogrammer 4y ago
> Oh and if you think the internet situation is bad up here in Canada, then wait 'till you hear about our mobile phone rates. I wasted a good half a day going around different mobile phone shops in Vancouver because I couldn't understand why none of them had a $20 pay as you go simcard which would have me a dozen GB of data and some calls. In the end one of the shop assistants who had been to Europe understood our confusion and explained that those just don't exist in Canada. He also showed us the coverage map and that the minute we left Vancouver cell service would be next to nothing anyway.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  Well yeah, cell service is going to be bad in the mountains, of course. No one lives there and there are giant mountains in the way. But any populated area of the country has good service.

by xzez 4y ago

dmt0 4y ago

Oh look! This year Canada slides again on the Corruption Perception Index! https://transparencycanada.ca/news/canada-slides-again-on-corruption-perceptions-index https://transparencycanada.ca/news/canada-slides-again-on-co...

donmcronald 4y ago

> I believe the copper and coax infrastructure was subsidized by the gov't and so regulations were created to require granting independent ISPs wholesale access to the (last-mile) infra. AFAIK there are no similar regulations for the fibre networks as those were not subsidized. That’s why they cut out the copper when they light up the fiber.

dleslie 4y ago
The crtc ruled that wholesale rules shouldn't apply to fiber, so prices are even worse. Apparently Canadians don't need fast internet.

Teever 4y ago

> AFAIK there are no similar regulations for the fibre networks as those were not subsidized. Which irks me because these companies were able to build out these fibre networks because of the advantage that they received from being practically gifted publicly owned utilities.

donmcronald 4y ago
They also charge the government insane rates which is it’s own kind of hidden subsidy.
lebuffon 4y ago
And here we thought Russia was the only place that this kind of thing happened. Who knew? ;-)

jamal-kumar 4y ago

You know how dumb I find this situation? I fucking left and haven't had a cell phone plan in Canada for like a decade. My bill on TWO FOREIGN PHONES even roaming WITHIN CANADA is cheaper than maintaining a stupid Bell Rogers or Telus plan internationally. The major sense I get from Canadians whenever I arrive back is an enormous sense of financial illiteracy. Like they just don't know or care about how badly they get ripped off all the time on so many things and will never care enough to do anything meaningful about it.

jagger27 4y ago
Financial illiteracy is a little fucking harsh, no? We know we’re getting absolutely shafted.
- jamal-kumar 4y ago
  Then why aren't you doing anything about it? Why is the contrast between Canada and the rest of the world palpably stark? Why do banks get away with disgusting loopholes like getting around laws by calling themselves "financial advisers" rather than advisOrs? A little harsh? Do something about it enough that I might consider returning
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Oh please lost child return to us. We're begging you to come back. Gimme a break. We are a country with 1/10th the population of the US -- the largest economy in the world and an aggressive military power -- and we're sitting right next to it, for most of our history barely holding onto an independent existence. Most of our "successful" industries consist of "ripping and shipping" raw commodities to service that market. It should not surprise you why things are the way they are. It's gross how these domestic industries end up this way, captured by a cabal of self-serving corporate dickheads, but TBH on the whole the alternative would be raw subservience to US corporations who would steamroll our entire economy. There is no easy answer, or it would have been done already.
    - 4y ago

VBprogrammer 4y ago

> Oh and if you think the internet situation is bad up here in Canada, then wait 'till you hear about our mobile phone rates. I wasted a good half a day going around different mobile phone shops in Vancouver because I couldn't understand why none of them had a $20 pay as you go simcard which would have me a dozen GB of data and some calls. In the end one of the shop assistants who had been to Europe understood our confusion and explained that those just don't exist in Canada. He also showed us the coverage map and that the minute we left Vancouver cell service would be next to nothing anyway.

frosted-flakes 4y ago
Well yeah, cell service is going to be bad in the mountains, of course. No one lives there and there are giant mountains in the way. But any populated area of the country has good service.