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To be honest, I’d buy the Ford over the Tesla in a heartbeat if I was in the market (and had the budget) for an electric truck.

quantified 4y ago
Ford does not need to iterate and refine its way to a truck that is suitable for real work, they've had that down for a long time. Plus they have a massive network. Tesla can certainly get a hold in the pickup market but man do they have one ugly truck.
- dieselgate 4y ago
  It seems to me the electric f150 and Tesla truck will appeal to very different consumer demographics. I anticipate the e-f150 will not purely be considered a consumer vehicle just because it has so much fleet potential. Curious what it will mean for Rivian, their trucks look slick but not sure how much runway/room for error the company has.
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  I actually like their truck aesthetic, but I have no confidence in the fit and finish, nor ownership dimensions. I am optimizing for the bottom 20% of ownership experiences - if it breaks, has issues, etc - my money is on a traditional car company. It also makes me feel good to not support the Elon machine.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    I’m not sure it’s a safe bet that traditional car company repair options will work well for new electric vehicles. It remains to be tested for sure. Edit: in some ways the traditional repair shops could be a liability if they’re slow to adapt
    - evgen 4y ago
      In this case it is likely that the local repair shop will have some ability to source/replace a lot of parts that are common across the F series, which should cover a lot of repair jobs. For complicated electrical/drivetrain issues they can push the job up the chain to either a dealership or a more specialised part of the Ford repair network and over time the capability to perform those repairs will start to filter out to the edges of the network. By the time Ford is pushing EVs hard it is quite likely that their existing network will be ready to provide the sort of repair and support services that Tesla is famous for failing at.
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        Maybe. I would wait a good while before making a major purchase like this from either brand on such a new product line.
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > Ford does not need to iterate and refine its way to a truck that is suitable for real work, they've had that down for a long time. Plus they have a massive network. You're missing the biggest obstacle here after manufacturing, charging is incredibly difficult in many cases entirely impossible due to a lack maintenance on 3rd party charging stations. Here is a Bloomberg article outlining what happens more often than not due to this [0]. After many years working for Japanese and German auto manufacturers this exactly why I argue Tesla isn't really a car company, they seem to be more of an energy and software company using cars that utilize their energy grid and technology. What they've done under people's noses is to offset the costs of creating an ever-expanding charging network through the sell and pre-sell deposits of their cars that are always delayed yet still continue to yield seemingly obscene stock valuation in comparison to the rest of the Auto manufacturers combined. From this POV the hype isn't so much from the cars, but rather the hype of them getting closer to disrupting all the peripheral Industries: they just got approval to provide auto insurance in more states in the US which if you've owned driven a Tesla in the Bay Area or LA it's a large expense of owning a Tesla because of how often they are vandalized or broken into. They are also able to offer more competitive rates based on actual driving metrics, which to me is an indication of where things have been going for some time in that Industry as cars became more like computers and is way more intrusive than what I can stomach. I still think the total Cybertruck deposits were more of a meme hyhypee and marketing ploy than an actual gauge or real projection of deliverable vehicles because the sum was so low ($100). They did however, get a massive boost to their stock price and an interest free loan they could leverage so it was a total win for Tesla. Aesthetically, it's very polarizing; I personally like it as it's Cyberpunk aesthetics are amusing to me, also the immense size of it is comical but then most 'heavy duty' trucks in the US all are. I still remember seeing lifted Fords, Dodges doing +100 MPH in Southern Texas while driving down to SpaceX's Starbase in Boca Chica and thinking how absurd those things were (seeing literal packs of automotive dinosaurs barreling down the freeway was insane) and then I saw that gas $0.99 and figured if you could align the right incentives the Cybertruck had a real shot take at taking significant part of the Market Share once oil prices reached a realistic value: how much of that market share is anyone guess. 0: https://archive.ph/LCxxO https://archive.ph/LCxxO
  - clouddrover 4y ago
dieselgate 4y ago
Agree completely. Until then it’s an ‘88 f250 (mostly running biodiesel) for me
- chrisjc 4y ago
  As unlikely as it may be that that old diesel engine gives out, but if it does and if you love your '88 enough Ford sells an electric crate motor. https://accessories.ford.com/products/eluminator-mach-e-electric-motor https://accessories.ford.com/products/eluminator-mach-e-elec... (although heard it's out of stock and has and will be for a while) Looks incredible in the '78 F-100 they put together. MKBHD did a nice review of it too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72dA533sCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72dA533sCg For me, one of the most compelling reasons to choose the Lightning over the Cybertruck is the option ($4k+ wall-mounted thing) that allows it to power your home for 1-3 days in an emergency. But I imagine that since Tesla is already in the home-power business, a similar option for the Cybertruck won't be too far behind.
  - dieselgate 4y ago
    Whoah that is radical! Had no idea there was an oem e-motor thanks for sharing! My parents converted a Civic(?) to electric in the late 80s and the idea has always been in the back of my mind. But the main difference would be the f250 could carry much more battery weight! Moreover the wall adapter seems slick but I’m curious how many homes are even capable of handling that dc input, but I’m not much of electrician. Regardless seems like the grid may be making a pivot towards more DC capabilities in the future
roflyear 4y ago
Me too. Tesla truck is for people who need attention.
- Andys 4y ago
  I hate that it is so attention-grabbing. Having a long life stainless steel body with low-maintenance motors, long distance battery pack, and fast charging, really appeals to the engineer in me.
- qwerpy 4y ago
  Or, for people like me that really enjoy their current Tesla and would love to have the same thing but as a truck. I’m not an attention seeker, so I figure by the time they get down to my place in the reservation line it won’t be a remarkable sight anymore.
  - Teever 4y ago
    Given that the Tesla truck looks so radically different from current Tesla vehicles, and most vehicles in general can you be sure that you'll enjoy it for the same reasons that you enjoy your current Tesla?
- osigurdson 4y ago
  Tesla truck is for people that want a Tesla truck. No need to psychoanalyze and try to establish motivation. People can buy whatever they want.
  - sunstone 4y ago
    Cybertruck was not love at first sight for me. But after 24 hrs I signed up because of the value. 4x4, adjustable suspension, locking bed, 240v, pneumatic air and much more for $50k. Plus the usual no gas bill and very low maintenance. It's a deal.
    - the_biot 4y ago
      But you're mistaken. The Cybertruck has none of those features, since it doesn't exist. It's entirely vaporware. When they start shipping them -- if that ever happens -- then you can list what features it has, and what they charge for them. But what you bought into, and paid your $100 reservation fee for, does not exist.
Aleksdev 4y ago
May I ask why? I just still have a hard time believing Ford is a serious player in the electric vehicle space.
- danans 4y ago
  You don't turn your two most iconic brands/vehicles into EVs and reorganize the company into a separate EV company and a non EV company if you aren't serious about EVs. That's what Ford did. The companies that aren't serious about them today are Toyota, Honda, and Stellantis.
  - cellis 4y ago
    Also invested 500 million into Rivian.
    - chrisjc 4y ago
      but dwindling... https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2022/05/16/ford-unloads-another-7-million-shares-ev-startup-rivian/9794147002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2022/0...
  - thawaya3113 4y ago
    And Toyota and Honda are interesting because they are Japanese companies who were pushed by the government to ignore EVs in favor of hydrogen vehicles. The reason was simple. Most of the politically powerful Japanese companies are huge conglomerates who make a lot of money in heavy industry areas where until a few years ago hydrogen was an obviously better choice than electric powered motors, which meant that there was a lot of pressure on the Japanese govt to put pressure on the car industry to align in the same direction.
    - danans 4y ago
      > The reason was simple. Most of the politically powerful Japanese companies are huge conglomerates who make a lot of money in heavy industry areas There is also the fact that both companies were early innovators in making gasoline engines much more efficient with things like (non plug-in) hybrid drivetrains, so they have an interest in pushing gas focused technology.
MrMan 4y ago
I will definitely be buying one of these, would never buy a Tesla due to quality and service concerns.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Funny, but due to my Dad's experience with the 1988 F-150, no one in my (extended) family has even thought about buying a Ford.
  - tomatotomato37 4y ago
    Yeah, it's a shame the Tesla seems to be continuing the modern American car trend of lackluster reliability.
zardo 4y ago
Well if Ford is delivering vehicles, that's a big plus over the Cybertruck right now.

quantified 4y ago

Ford does not need to iterate and refine its way to a truck that is suitable for real work, they've had that down for a long time. Plus they have a massive network. Tesla can certainly get a hold in the pickup market but man do they have one ugly truck.

dieselgate 4y ago
It seems to me the electric f150 and Tesla truck will appeal to very different consumer demographics. I anticipate the e-f150 will not purely be considered a consumer vehicle just because it has so much fleet potential. Curious what it will mean for Rivian, their trucks look slick but not sure how much runway/room for error the company has.
edmundsauto 4y ago
I actually like their truck aesthetic, but I have no confidence in the fit and finish, nor ownership dimensions. I am optimizing for the bottom 20% of ownership experiences - if it breaks, has issues, etc - my money is on a traditional car company. It also makes me feel good to not support the Elon machine.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  I’m not sure it’s a safe bet that traditional car company repair options will work well for new electric vehicles. It remains to be tested for sure. Edit: in some ways the traditional repair shops could be a liability if they’re slow to adapt
  - evgen 4y ago
    In this case it is likely that the local repair shop will have some ability to source/replace a lot of parts that are common across the F series, which should cover a lot of repair jobs. For complicated electrical/drivetrain issues they can push the job up the chain to either a dealership or a more specialised part of the Ford repair network and over time the capability to perform those repairs will start to filter out to the edges of the network. By the time Ford is pushing EVs hard it is quite likely that their existing network will be ready to provide the sort of repair and support services that Tesla is famous for failing at.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      Maybe. I would wait a good while before making a major purchase like this from either brand on such a new product line.
Melting_Harps 4y ago
> Ford does not need to iterate and refine its way to a truck that is suitable for real work, they've had that down for a long time. Plus they have a massive network. You're missing the biggest obstacle here after manufacturing, charging is incredibly difficult in many cases entirely impossible due to a lack maintenance on 3rd party charging stations. Here is a Bloomberg article outlining what happens more often than not due to this [0]. After many years working for Japanese and German auto manufacturers this exactly why I argue Tesla isn't really a car company, they seem to be more of an energy and software company using cars that utilize their energy grid and technology. What they've done under people's noses is to offset the costs of creating an ever-expanding charging network through the sell and pre-sell deposits of their cars that are always delayed yet still continue to yield seemingly obscene stock valuation in comparison to the rest of the Auto manufacturers combined. From this POV the hype isn't so much from the cars, but rather the hype of them getting closer to disrupting all the peripheral Industries: they just got approval to provide auto insurance in more states in the US which if you've owned driven a Tesla in the Bay Area or LA it's a large expense of owning a Tesla because of how often they are vandalized or broken into. They are also able to offer more competitive rates based on actual driving metrics, which to me is an indication of where things have been going for some time in that Industry as cars became more like computers and is way more intrusive than what I can stomach. I still think the total Cybertruck deposits were more of a meme hyhypee and marketing ploy than an actual gauge or real projection of deliverable vehicles because the sum was so low ($100). They did however, get a massive boost to their stock price and an interest free loan they could leverage so it was a total win for Tesla. Aesthetically, it's very polarizing; I personally like it as it's Cyberpunk aesthetics are amusing to me, also the immense size of it is comical but then most 'heavy duty' trucks in the US all are. I still remember seeing lifted Fords, Dodges doing +100 MPH in Southern Texas while driving down to SpaceX's Starbase in Boca Chica and thinking how absurd those things were (seeing literal packs of automotive dinosaurs barreling down the freeway was insane) and then I saw that gas $0.99 and figured if you could align the right incentives the Cybertruck had a real shot take at taking significant part of the Market Share once oil prices reached a realistic value: how much of that market share is anyone guess. 0: https://archive.ph/LCxxO https://archive.ph/LCxxO
- clouddrover 4y ago

dieselgate 4y ago

Agree completely. Until then it’s an ‘88 f250 (mostly running biodiesel) for me

chrisjc 4y ago
As unlikely as it may be that that old diesel engine gives out, but if it does and if you love your '88 enough Ford sells an electric crate motor. https://accessories.ford.com/products/eluminator-mach-e-electric-motor https://accessories.ford.com/products/eluminator-mach-e-elec... (although heard it's out of stock and has and will be for a while) Looks incredible in the '78 F-100 they put together. MKBHD did a nice review of it too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72dA533sCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72dA533sCg For me, one of the most compelling reasons to choose the Lightning over the Cybertruck is the option ($4k+ wall-mounted thing) that allows it to power your home for 1-3 days in an emergency. But I imagine that since Tesla is already in the home-power business, a similar option for the Cybertruck won't be too far behind.
- dieselgate 4y ago
  Whoah that is radical! Had no idea there was an oem e-motor thanks for sharing! My parents converted a Civic(?) to electric in the late 80s and the idea has always been in the back of my mind. But the main difference would be the f250 could carry much more battery weight! Moreover the wall adapter seems slick but I’m curious how many homes are even capable of handling that dc input, but I’m not much of electrician. Regardless seems like the grid may be making a pivot towards more DC capabilities in the future

roflyear 4y ago

Me too. Tesla truck is for people who need attention.

Andys 4y ago
I hate that it is so attention-grabbing. Having a long life stainless steel body with low-maintenance motors, long distance battery pack, and fast charging, really appeals to the engineer in me.
qwerpy 4y ago
Or, for people like me that really enjoy their current Tesla and would love to have the same thing but as a truck. I’m not an attention seeker, so I figure by the time they get down to my place in the reservation line it won’t be a remarkable sight anymore.
- Teever 4y ago
  Given that the Tesla truck looks so radically different from current Tesla vehicles, and most vehicles in general can you be sure that you'll enjoy it for the same reasons that you enjoy your current Tesla?
osigurdson 4y ago
Tesla truck is for people that want a Tesla truck. No need to psychoanalyze and try to establish motivation. People can buy whatever they want.
- sunstone 4y ago
  Cybertruck was not love at first sight for me. But after 24 hrs I signed up because of the value. 4x4, adjustable suspension, locking bed, 240v, pneumatic air and much more for $50k. Plus the usual no gas bill and very low maintenance. It's a deal.
  - the_biot 4y ago
    But you're mistaken. The Cybertruck has none of those features, since it doesn't exist. It's entirely vaporware. When they start shipping them -- if that ever happens -- then you can list what features it has, and what they charge for them. But what you bought into, and paid your $100 reservation fee for, does not exist.

Aleksdev 4y ago

May I ask why? I just still have a hard time believing Ford is a serious player in the electric vehicle space.

danans 4y ago
You don't turn your two most iconic brands/vehicles into EVs and reorganize the company into a separate EV company and a non EV company if you aren't serious about EVs. That's what Ford did. The companies that aren't serious about them today are Toyota, Honda, and Stellantis.
- cellis 4y ago
  Also invested 500 million into Rivian.
  - chrisjc 4y ago
    but dwindling... https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2022/05/16/ford-unloads-another-7-million-shares-ev-startup-rivian/9794147002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2022/0...
- thawaya3113 4y ago
  And Toyota and Honda are interesting because they are Japanese companies who were pushed by the government to ignore EVs in favor of hydrogen vehicles. The reason was simple. Most of the politically powerful Japanese companies are huge conglomerates who make a lot of money in heavy industry areas where until a few years ago hydrogen was an obviously better choice than electric powered motors, which meant that there was a lot of pressure on the Japanese govt to put pressure on the car industry to align in the same direction.
  - danans 4y ago
    > The reason was simple. Most of the politically powerful Japanese companies are huge conglomerates who make a lot of money in heavy industry areas There is also the fact that both companies were early innovators in making gasoline engines much more efficient with things like (non plug-in) hybrid drivetrains, so they have an interest in pushing gas focused technology.

MrMan 4y ago

I will definitely be buying one of these, would never buy a Tesla due to quality and service concerns.

hotpotamus 4y ago
Funny, but due to my Dad's experience with the 1988 F-150, no one in my (extended) family has even thought about buying a Ford.
- tomatotomato37 4y ago
  Yeah, it's a shame the Tesla seems to be continuing the modern American car trend of lackluster reliability.

zardo 4y ago

Well if Ford is delivering vehicles, that's a big plus over the Cybertruck right now.